Home | Community | Message Board


Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
indole derivatives PT 2
    #1089287 - 11/27/02 12:50 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

this is a continuation of this thread.
i chose to start a new post because they are simular...but
i wanna throw out an idea for discussion...

the previous post dealt w/ chemicals,...most were
very dangerous, expensive, or really hard to get...
and the end result was "brownish goo"
instead of "crystalline powder"

in that thread anno mentions this:
In reply to:

Water is cheap, available and non poisonous. And psilocybin is better soluble in water than in methanol.





so here is my far fetched idea:
we extract using water...
and somehow incorperate that water,
while making Rock Candy...
so here is issue 1:
to make rock candy, you have to bring the temps
of the water & sugar to hard ball stage (247*F-252*F)
*i believe the darivatives would break down at those temps, correct?
assuming they would, the extract would have to be incorperated after the cooking...sometime in the process of cooling i believe...
*issue 2: when should the extract be incorperated?
*issue 3: will the extract be absorbed along w/ the sugar,
or will it evaporate?
here is a blippit on the process of crystalization:
In reply to:

What makes the crystals grow?
Two different methods will contribute to the growth of the crystals on the string. You have created a supersaturated solution by first heating a saturated sugar solution (a solution in which no more sugar can dissolve at a particular temperature) and then allowing it to cool. A supersaturated solution is unstable; it contains more solute (in this case, sugar) than can stay in a liquid form;so the sugar will come out of solution, forming what's called a precipitate. This method is called precipitation.

The other is evaporation; as time passes, the water will evaporate slowly from the solution. As the water evaporates, the solution becomes more saturated and sugar molecules will continue to come out of the solution and collect on the seed crystals on the string. The rock candy crystals grow molecule by molecule. Your finished rock candy will be made up of about a quadrillion (1,000,000,000,000,000) molecules attached to the string.



*issue 4: what would be the actual recipe ratio..., or would it matter?
experimention would be a good answer...
*issue 5: how much fungi would be required?
basically, ratio issues regarding potency..and dosage...

but anyways, mind you, i am not a chemist, its just an idea
that i thought would be of good discussion...





--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsyphon
mneumatic device

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 565
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1089764 - 11/27/02 03:56 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Why not concentrate the solution and put drops of it onto sugar cubes?

Of course your idea is cooler, I'm just suggesting something easier and perhaps something that can be used in preliminary testing.


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsyphon
mneumatic device

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 565
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1089779 - 11/27/02 04:02 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I just read the previous thread you mentioned and I was thinking about what Elektrolurch said about acetic acid not evaporating, but I wonder if HCl acid could be used, which I think does evaporate, or if it would degrade the alkaloids. If it could be used, a mild solution of Hydrochloric acid should be better than just water.


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


Edited by psyphon (11/27/02 04:03 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: psyphon]
    #1089780 - 11/27/02 04:03 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

i think you would need a shitload of mush's to do that...
...and i mean a shitload...IMO of course, correct me if im wrong..


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: psyphon]
    #1089788 - 11/27/02 04:07 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

ok, well what idea are you talking about?
yours or mine?


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsyphon
mneumatic device

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 565
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1089804 - 11/27/02 04:12 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

If you have one dose in 100ml of liquid and you can evaporate that down to 10ml of liquid(assuming the product would stay in solution), it could be put on one sugar cube without dissolving it. This one dose would be the same amount (or slightly larger) if your extraction is of a good efficiency.

If there is a problem with the product staying in solution at the desired concentration, perhaps it can be gently heated a bit before being dropped onto the cube, since it doesn't matter if the product falls out after its in the cube. Of couse you would do more than one dose worth at once and the above numbers are for example only but I think it illustrates my point.


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: psyphon]
    #1089816 - 11/27/02 04:19 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

ok, i take it we're talking about your idea...
so heres my 2 cents,
reading my 1st post, and the people ive talked to,
using chemicals results in goo...
will the sugar cube absorb the goo?


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsyphon
mneumatic device

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 565
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1089819 - 11/27/02 04:21 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I was saying your idea of rock candy is cooler but sugar cubes could be easier. Although now that I'm thinking about the numbers, I guess it'd be good to know how much a sugar cube weighs and how much of whatever solvent will start to signifigantly dissolve it and how much solvent is necessary to have one dose in solution.

If this could be figured out, it would be known if this could be done. I would guess that a cube weighs at least a gram. So if 100mL of solvent could hold the 15mg or so of actives (although there will be an unknown amount of junk in there) I think that the cube could take the 100mL even if it needed to be applied to different sides. So if you were doing a batch you would apply 16.6mL to one side of all of them (and maybe a drop of food color so you know that side is done) then go back to the beginning and start on the new sides. Probably the whole sides thing wouldn't even be necessary though.


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsyphon
mneumatic device

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 565
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1089824 - 11/27/02 04:24 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I think that it would, it would be evenly dissolved in the solution and then spread over whatever area of the cube the solution is applied to. The solution should "soak in" which would help increase the area. The cube might be brown but it'll be good going down.


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: psyphon]
    #1090829 - 11/27/02 01:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

i see your idea, and im pretty sure it would work...
but....the whole point of my post, was to not use
chemicals for extraction....
Quote:

the previous post dealt w/ chemicals,...most were
very dangerous, expensive, or really hard to get...
and the end result was "brownish goo"
instead of "crystalline powder"




im not at all down-talkin...
your idea is innovative and im glad you posted...
thats what this forum is for eh?....good discussions...
:smile:



 


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsyphon
mneumatic device

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 565
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1091361 - 11/27/02 04:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I think that it could still work with water the only problem would be that it might not hold as much product in a given amount as compared to another solvent.  I was just talking about the chemicals because I figure they'll work better.  I understand your not wanting to use chemicals since they can be dangerous/poisonous.

I thought of a chemical that would be safe to use though; Citric Acid.  It won't evaporate like HCl will but that probably won't be a problem and you can buy it at food stores since they use it in candy and such.  If you use it in your rock candy idea, it'll give 'em a little extra zing :smile: (taste wise that is) 


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: psyphon]
    #1091633 - 11/27/02 07:04 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

damn thats a good idea too!
...and i do believe Citric Acid is vitamin C right?
wouldnt that be an addition to the trip?
like drinking OJ while tripping...

so is my idea feasable?
i wonder why anno and elecktrolurch havent replied yet...
they had soo much positive info in the other thread...
why no reply?  :frown:
 


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLoop_Theorist
addict
Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 604
Last seen: 11 years, 9 days
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1091964 - 11/27/02 09:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

would one of you do this and get back to us??? I'd beat you to it, but I dont have any fruits ATM.


-Loop


--------------------
Pack-tight, midnight, ship it to tha coast.
Some take tha plane, you, you on tha boat,
right beside tha money which right beside tha coke
Passin by tha coastgaurd, right under their nose.

To the US-HEY where anyone can getny, MIA all the way to New Your city, you a twenty now....


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1091966 - 11/27/02 09:09 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

alright....lets break this down:
(assumingly of course)

i do up a batch of rock candy,
during cool down, i pour the extract in, when suitable temperatures are reached...
*during the 2 processes in crystallization (precipitation & evaporation)
will the darivatives precipitate or will they evaporate?

thats the easiest way i can descibe my idea w/o all the technical questions...
i thought this was the advanced forum... :confused:

after that question gets answered by some of the REAL
mad scientists we have here...
...hopefully we can start thinking about all those technical q's..


   


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: Loop_Theorist]
    #1091987 - 11/27/02 09:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

would one of you do this and get back to us??? 



LMAO!! ...no shit huh?
i kinda wanted to discuss this so i am sure that im not wasting
my time...and fruits of my labour....
...i thought id get more input...
...eh, im probably not being patient enough...
sorry to all if it seems as if though...
...im just full of anticipation!! :grin: 


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblezeta
Stranger

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 3,972
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1092746 - 11/28/02 01:39 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

...and i do believe Citric Acid is vitamin C right?



Vitamin C is ascorbic acid. Citric acid is nothing special.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAlkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
Male

Registered: 11/16/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1093236 - 11/28/02 05:32 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

  The derivatives will not evaporate or sublimate..  the real question here is will the extract adsorb to or be absorbed by the surface of the rock candy?  I couldn't tell you for sure, but I think there is a fair chance of the extract adsorbing decently if the concentration is high enough.  But I do not specialize in crystallization, so  .... *shrug*
  I imagine that if you dipped the rock candy into a super saturated cooled solution you could achieve quite nice results.
  either way good luck.. I hope this made sense as I am the opposite of low right now.  :smile: 


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible40oz
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/01
Posts: 30,038
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: Alkaloids]
    #1094877 - 11/29/02 12:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

actually that reply was better then no reply... :grin:

with the replies i think this just might work, i posted this thinking it wouldnt,
and usually people immediately point out if ideas will not work....the impression i get from the replies and the lack thereof...i am going to take my experiment into action asap...
if it works, ill do a write up, & the recipe for success.

my only question is why didnt someone think of this already?
i think the only answer is: experimentation...
wish me luck! :laugh:
   


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 401
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: 40oz]
    #1095376 - 11/29/02 03:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

A. What's an organic source of acetic acid?
B. Can you substitute citric acid?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAlkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
Male

Registered: 11/16/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
Re: indole derivatives PT 2 [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1095410 - 11/29/02 04:00 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

  what do you mean by organic?  Acetic acid is in vinegar..  at 3%-5% I believe.  Citric acid.. easy enough.. just go get some Vitamine C tablets and dissolve in water.  You can figure out the concentration from the information given on the tablets.


    good luck 40ounces!  :smile: 


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Biotransformation of indole derivatives by mycelial cultures. Plasmid 812 5 10/10/08 07:21 PM
by Plasmid
* indole derivatives 40oz 1,075 18 12/07/01 10:20 AM
by Elektrolurch
* Chemistry question on Psilocin derivatives Feelers 2,005 12 10/26/06 02:44 AM
by MattEx
* 4-ho-indole as an affinity ligand? wietstocker 882 1 05/07/07 10:45 PM
by YourNameHere
* Re: Indole Humidity 1,170 9 04/02/01 08:49 PM
by Humidity
* Does anyone use brown sugar as liquid media? Why not? forgieboy 1,345 14 09/05/04 05:46 PM
by Mycena
* Gartz on Increasing Indole in Cultures of Psilocybe cubensis mjshroomer 1,691 12 02/06/05 03:36 AM
by Speeker
* Indole Testing using p-DMAB BlimeyGrimey 1,650 5 10/14/09 10:39 PM
by BlimeyGrimey

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, bodhisatta
2,012 topic views. 1 members, 16 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Shroom Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.035 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 18 queries.