Poptart said:

Alot of you mention dream analysis.

I would be interested in hearing how that helps one's psychic abilities.

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deCypher said:

Poid said:

First thing I'd like to say to all of you is that it's hard even having a discussion when terms haven't been defined, so I am taking for granted that by "psychic powers", we mean telepathy. Telepathy is a hypothetical psychological process in which an individual can literally perceive the perception of another individual in exactly the same way that individual is perceiving things. Obviously, since perception is quite literally a physical mechanism, it is impossible for one to do this; even if your brain perfectly mimicked the processes of another person's brain, it wouldn't be you perceiving the other person's perceptions, but rather, it would be a manifestation of your imagination, just like everything else.

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Uhmmm... perception may have a physical correlate (namely, neural activity in the brain) but by definition perception is a mental activity and thus you've offered no persuasive argument as to the impossibility of telepathy.

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Let's define all of the important terms first:

Quote:

perception 
noun 1. the act or faculty of apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding.
2. immediate or intuitive recognition or appreciation, as of moral, psychological, or aesthetic qualities; insight; intuition; discernment: an artist of rare perception. 
3. the result or product of perceiving, as distinguished from the act of perceiving; percept.
4. Psychology. a single unified awareness derived from sensory processes while a stimulus is present.
5. Law. the taking into possession of rents, crops, profits, etc.

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Quote:

physical
–adjective 1. of or pertaining to the body: physical exercise. 
2. of or pertaining to that which is material: the physical universe; the physical sciences. 
3. noting or pertaining to the properties of matter and energy other than those peculiar to living matter.
4. pertaining to the physical sciences, esp. physics.
5. carnal; sexual: a physical attraction. 
6. tending to touch, hug, pat, etc.; physically demonstrative: a physical person. 
7. requiring, characterized by, or liking rough physical contact or strenuous physical activity: Football is a physical sport.

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Quote:

mental
–adjective 1. of or pertaining to the mind: mental powers; mental suffering. 
2. of, pertaining to, or affected by a disorder of the mind: a mental patient; mental illness. 
3. providing care for persons with disordered minds, emotions, etc.: a mental hospital. 
4. performed by or existing in the mind: mental arithmetic; a mental note. 
5. pertaining to intellectuals or intellectual activity.
6. Informal. slightly daft; out of one's mind; crazy: He's mental. 

–noun 7. Informal. a person with a psychological disorder: a fascist group made up largely of mentals.

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Perception, or "mental activity", as you so put it, depends on a living brain to exist.

deCypher said:

Moreover, telepathy does not necessarily imply perceiving the exact same things as another individual; all it requires is that some information be transmitted between two people through mental powers alone.

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There are many definitions for the term 'telepathy', but I earlier provided Wikipedia's for a reason, so I'll just put it here again:

From Telepathy - Wikipedia

Quote:

Telepathy (Greek ôçëå, tele meaning "distant" and ðÜèåéá, patheia meaning "to be affected by",) is supposed to be the transfer of information on thoughts or feelings between individuals by means other than the five senses (See Psi). The term was coined in 1882 by the classical scholar Fredric W. H. Myers, a founder of the Society for Psychical Research, specifically to replace the earlier expression thought-transference. A person who is able to make use of telepathy is said to be able to read the thoughts and stored information in the brain of others. Telepathy, along with psychokinesis forms the main branches of parapsychological research, and many studies seeking to detect, understand, utilize telepathy have been done within the field.

There is no accepted mechanism by which telepathy can work, and there is no definition which unambiguously distinguishes it from a number of other related concepts such as clairvoyance, so the concept is not accepted by the scientific community.

Telepathy is a common theme in modern fiction and science fiction, with many superheroes and supervillains having telepathic abilities. Such abilities include sensing the thoughts of others.

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Since the existence of "mental powers" is dependent on a living brain, it means whatever information is "transmitted between two people" is done via a physical mechanism; can you identify the physical mechanism that operates this "transmission"?

Diaboleros said:

Yes, the electromagnetic field emitted by the body, which is an EM-fied composed out of the EM-fields of the cell.

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Quote:

The electromagnetic field is a physical field produced by electrically charged objects. It affects the behavior of charged objects in the vicinity of the field. Light is the electromagnetic field in a certain frequency range. At lower frequencies the electromagnetic field may be radio waves or infrared light, while at higher frequencies it may be UV light or x-rays, among others.

The electromagnetic field extends indefinitely throughout space and describes the electromagnetic interaction. It is one of the four fundamental forces of nature (the others are gravitation, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction). The field propagates by electromagnetic radiation; in order of increasing energy (decreasing wavelength) electromagnetic radiation comprises: radio waves, microwaves, infrared, visible light, ultraviolet, X-rays, and gamma rays.

The field can be viewed as the combination of an electric field and a magnetic field. The electric field is produced by stationary charges, and the magnetic field by moving charges (currents); these two are often described as the sources of the field. The way in which charges and currents interact with the electromagnetic field is described by Maxwell's equations and the Lorentz force law.

From a classical perspective, the electromagnetic field can be regarded as a smooth, continuous field, propagated in a wavelike manner; whereas, from a quantum mechanical perspective, the field is seen as quantised, being composed of individual particles.

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Diaboleros said:

This field is intelligent on itsel, it is the intelligence of the cells, the intelligence that does all the repairing in the body and the subconscious calculations, like dreaming, it is the subconscious on itself.

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What "field"? How is it intelligent on itself? You're saying that cells are intelligent? Are you equating their ability to emit electromagnetic energy to them possessing intelligence?

I can't really say I completely understand human biology, but I wouldn't say there's any "intelligence" involved in, for instance, the repairing of my broken wrist (I just got my cast off two days ago that I needed for a fractured bone and am currently on a splint and still healing); it's all just a coordination of biochemical reactions!

Diaboleros said:

Now, just like the fields of the cells interacts, so do the fields of the human body.

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Diaboleros said:

Electromagnetic resonance...

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Is what?

Diaboleros said:

is the physical mechanism you are a looking for.

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ivander said:

Damn, I thought I will learn something new about psychic ability and how to develop them.. and instead I wasted a good deal of free time today reading same old 3D BS(exception for a few posts, which still did not provide any good data)...

Can anyone here provide me with some links or books which actually support this topic.

And as for objective vs subjective POV on science vs paranormal... check out the Particle wave duality, and/or Double Slit Experiment... because as I look on this matter.. this is the border point...
I brought this up, because I think, this is how psychic ability(this term does not focus only on telepathy) can be explained trough science, on quantum level..

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dummy said:

poid, we don't like you here in m&p.

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Jaegar said:

You arn't going to get any books with genuine facts and information in regards to Psychic abilities other then pseudoscience. Makes for a great read and big market out there full of gullible people.

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From the rational mind, I can say I know that. But hey, this is M&P right? Beside that, I think conventional science is suppressing these ideas, so I did not expect a book that is approved by academy.

Beside that, I dont think quotes from wiki will do any good, in proving any rational point, because it is supported by those same irrational, keep the ability for them selves, individuals.

We live in universe of infinite possibilities. It is only a matter of way how to invoke them.

Diaboleros said:

How do you explain the intelligence behind the DNA language?

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How do you explain it?

dummy said:

poid, we don't like you here in m&p.

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DieCommie said:

They may be wrong, but this is not a place to criticize...

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Believe me, I can take a punch.

I don't know whether or not you agree with the ideas I've presented here, but if you think that they may be wrong, it would be nicer to hear how or why you think they may be wrong than to hear that you find my perspective refreshing.

TeamAmerica said:

If I had the equipment I guarantee you I could produce award winning data...

I experience this on a daily  basis, im not saying I know EXACTLY whats happening, but I do know that thought is made and moves through more than what we understand through our current scientific paradigm.


And speaking of "Science," researchers already say they will be able to ready everyone's mind in the next couple of years with the current developing technology (most likely already developed and being used.)

People think there is a difference between the "spiritual" and the "scientific" world. All is one, we are just misunderstanding what IS.

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Shroomism said:

I love telepathy. It is my preferred method of communication.

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I have heard a friend's thoughts while we were ingesting an Ayahuasca analogue.  I was throwing up out the window and he was yarfing in the toilet.  I was responding to some things that he was saying when he suddenly went quiet...

I asked him what was up as I walked into the bathroom.

He was still over the toilet recovering when he said that he hadn't said any of the previous conversation out loud...

Shroomism said:

I love when stuff like that happens

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Mr.Al said:

I was throwing up out the window and he was yarfing in the toilet.

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mrspirit2 said:

Poid, to butter your toast I'm going to call it emotional intelligence.

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mrspirit2 said:

With everything our senses tell us during a conversation, we can infer emotion, ideas, or thoughts.

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Yup.

mrspirit2 said:

With compassion and focus as your ally, one can certainly feel what another feels.

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Quote:

A mirror neuron is a neuron that fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another. Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of the other, as though the observer were itself acting. Such neurons have been directly observed in primates, and are believed to occur in humans and other species including birds. In humans, brain activity consistent with that of mirror neurons has been found in the premotor cortex and the inferior parietal cortex.

Some scientists consider mirror neurons one of the most important recent discoveries in neuroscience. Among them is V.S. Ramachandran, who believes they might be very important in imitation and language acquisition. However, despite the popularity of this field, to date no widely accepted neural or computational models have been put forward to describe how mirror neuron activity supports cognitive functions such as imitation.

The function of the mirror system is a subject of much speculation. Many researchers in cognitive neuroscience and cognitive psychology consider that this system provides the physiological mechanism for the perception action coupling (see the common coding theory). These mirror neurons may be important for understanding the actions of other people, and for learning new skills by imitation. Some researchers also speculate that mirror systems may simulate observed actions, and thus contribute to theory of mind skills, while others relate mirror neurons to language abilities. It has also been proposed that problems with the mirror system may underlie cognitive disorders, particularly autism. However the connection between mirror neuron dysfunction and autism remains speculative and it is unlikely that mirror neurons are related to many of the important characteristics of autism

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mrspirit2 said:

This might sound silly to some, but others are going to know exactly what I mean. Such is life!

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mrspirit2 said:

There are so many natural and wonderful things going on when we communicate!

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I suppose.

mrspirit2 said:

If your brother or sister is hurting, generally you will feel their pain as well.

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Not necessarily...

mrspirit2 said:

If you are in a mind state of freedom OR opression(that's what im gonna call it) you have the ability/option to CHANGE this person's feelings.

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Individuals are in control of their psychological processes, nobody can literally change another person; the ability to influence another individual's psychological processes, though, is real.

mrspirit2 said:

I'll let you decide which course of action to take.

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mrspirit2 said:

tips in 'telepathy':

listen to their feelings. If I could make anymore sense linguistically of this it would be "feel their feelings"

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So basically, try your best to guess what other people are feeling?

mrspirit2 said:

positivity helps heaps

so does imagination!

Team america already worded it for me in the end of his quotation.

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