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 MileHiMycophiles
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Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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 marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... 
#10873055 - 08/16/09 09:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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this is from another thread, but it was so shocking to me that so many people fully believe the latest "reefer madness" lie from the drug companies and governments, that i felt it was very important to put a stop to it. please, if you are a stoner. if you love pot. please be informed. these are from cannabis culture and norml and other like sources, all quoted. for more info, visit the websites... but please inform others. it's not true. at all.
marijauna actually has been shown to reduce shcizophrenia... but that studies not being shown.
here's what started it all. a guy saying marijauna was a drug. i said no, it's a plant. and well, read on.
Quote:
Also, heroin, cocaine, etc. are all plant derived as well... they're drugs.
heroine deosn't grow, it's synthesized morphine, which is only one of the triple active ingredients in poppies.
coccaine takes TONS of refining. in fact the plant alone, is as healthy for you as pot. around the world it is used in shampoos and teas and even as a chew.
but pot you simply dry and smoke. big difference.
but you are free and respected to beleive anything you want.
from http://utteroutrage.blogspot.com/2007/05/marijuana-duck-duck-goose-same-old.html
Marijuana Duck, Duck, Goose - Same Old Story
(2nd International Cannabis and Mental Health Conference Programme [PDF] Logo)
Today, 13 states currently have active medical marijuana programs. Illinois, Texas, and Connecticut are chompin' at the bit (Connecticut just did the civil union thing - watch out). Grandma in the Bronx (colorectal cancer) isn't getting tagged for smokin' the rope. Hell, even Sanjaya's fam is in the growing business. Good reports? You got it: Marijuana has shown to cut lung tumor growth in mice and a marijuana-like compound may slow Alzheimer's.
So what has to come out? Marijuana makes makes you crazy and damages the brain. Sorry, that's FOX News. How about a more credible reporting source like Reuters through Scientific American?
Quick Psych 101: Psychology is only useful for broad, sweeping statements and we don't have a true understanding of all aspects of the brain or how they work, let alone how drugs interact with it (note: Not talking out of my ass; I have a Psych degree and recently had a great conversation with a neuroscientist on this exact topic).
From the article: the two main active components of marijuana are cannabidiol (CBD) and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). CBD produces a calming effect. THC is associated with the paranoia, euphoria.
There are upwards of 300 active compounds in marijuana. This study took the two most abundant (THC and CBD), and looked to see where the brain was affected. Because of anti-drug taboos, these studies are almost always conducted with synthesized THC. And an MRI will give you an image of activity or inactivity, but - as already mentioned - we don't know all the details of activity in certain areas of the brain.
To sum up: Doctors treated patients with a synthesis of a compound known to cause mild paranoia. They then put their patients in this machine:
and reported that the brain scan showed affected areas related to paranoia. No shit.
I am not trying to slam the study. The media and its fervor, however, can go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut on this one. Reuters has this article titled "Brain scans pinpoint cannabis health risk." But they didn't. The brain scans show activity or inactivity of the brain, and and the implications affect mental health outlook, while "health" implies physical health or brain damage. First sentence: "Brain scans showing how cannabis affects brain function...." Hold it right there. Function is not measured but by behavior. See previous explanation of what is being measured.
"It's no longer a contentious issue. The expert community, by and large, accepts that cannabis contributes to the onset of psychotic symptoms in general and the severe form of psychosis, schizophrenia," [Professor Robin Murray, conference organizer] said.
Wrong. That sounds like the "Weed makes you crazy" defense. Dr. Zerrin Atakan, author of the study, was found to be an astute, reasonable human being completely void of the sensationalism that would follow a story like this. He was quoted in the Telegraph in 2004 as saying:
Cannabis psychosis is a very vague term. If we ever use the phrase, it is only to describe very short-term effects immediately following smoking, and it certainly doesn't refer to users having a psychotic disorder. People may feel frightened or paranoid, but these feelings pass in a matter of hours or, more rarely, days, and practically never require treatment.
He even laid out some very lucid guidelines in a message to the 2005 Cannabis Education March & Rally, telling everyone to make up their own mind about marijuana, but hitting on some basic facts about smoking before your brain is done growing, smoking if you have mental illness, or smoking every day. Very understanding and well-understood.
So why the hullabaloo? Two words:
REEFER MADNESS!!!! (PICTURE OF MOVIE HERE)
(note: The Movie is public domain and the Musical is phenomenal.)
The media loves a good weed story; Marijuana's been tried by 1/4 to 1/3 of the US population, probably twice that have been affected by proximity. Sensationalism sells. So if you can blow a study into a headline, go for it, especially if it concerns marijuana and something bad. The federal government is in love with that. It wants to marry it and kiss it on the privates.
As for Robin Murray and his "weed causes schizophrenia" sensationalism, you might want to ask him to tone it down a bit. Of course, he may have to conference in the pharma behind his conference: Janssen-Cilag and Sanofi-Aventis. But I'm sure that their involvement and their production of schizophrenia treatment drugs are all just a coincidence.
I'll dismount the soapbox now and spare you, fair reader, a venture into legalization, the justice system, hypocrisies, and alternative energy, and leave you with this:
"Casual drug users should be taken out and shot"
Darryl Gates
Head of Los Angeles Police Department
United States Senate Judiciary Committee (1990)
For real information about marijuana, please visit NORML.
(Bonus: 420 Origin Story)
Quote:
Anonymous said...
Marijuana doesn't induce Schizophrenia in people within the GENERAL population. Studies have shown marijuana to induce Schizophrenic episodes in people who already have a predisposition to Schizophrenia. Probably someone who wrote the other article just took a half of the truth he/she read and wrote an article about it instead of reading the whole truth. Even so, a decade later, they might just prove Marijuana has nothing to do with Schizophrenia, and is a miracle cancer drug of some kind. Either way, it's ridiculous that's it's not legal while alcohol and cigarettes roam freely in the open market.
Chronic City: After Further Review, Smoking Pot Doesn't Make You Crazy -- Blimey!
By Steve Elliott in Chronic City
Thursday, Jul. 2 2009 @ 12:59PM
089218402479.jpg
oldies.com
Which came first, the lunatics or the grass?
The time-honored notion of reefer madness, given new life recently in the British tabloid press, has taken another hit from reality. Widespread marijuana use by the public has not been followed by a proportional rise in diagnoses of schizophrenia or psychosis, according to the findings of a forthcoming study to be published in the scientific journal Schizophrenia Research.
It stands to reason, after all: If marijuana really led to psychosis, wouldn't the streets be choked with burned-out, gibbering potheads?
Film director John Holowach, responsible for the documentary High: The True Tale of American Marijuana, wasn't surprised. "I've said it for years now," Holowach told SF Weekly. "If pot and mental illness were linked, the two should rise and fall with one another, but they don't."
Amidst a spate of breathless tabloid hysteria hyping the supposed dire threat from "Skunk," a potent pot strain, British lawmakers last year stiffened cannabis laws in the U.K. A team of researchers had fanned the flames in the July 28, 2007 issue of prestigious scientific journal The Lancet, proclaiming that smoking marijuana could boost one's risk of a "psychotic episode" by 40 percent or more.
In one fell swoop marijuana possession was reclassified from a verbal warning to a criminal offense punishable by up to five years in prison. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, ex-Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, and others cited the supposed 'pot-schizophrenia link' as a major reason for the giant step backward.
For the new study, British investigators at Keele University Medical School compared trends in cannabis use and instances of schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005. The research showed that even as marijuana use soared among the general population, "incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia and psychoses were either stable or declining" during this period.
The authors concluded that an expected rise in diagnoses of schizophrenia and psychoses did not occur over the decade under study. "This study does not therefore support the ... link between cannabis use and incidence of psychotic disorders," the study concludes, adding "This concurs with other reports indicating that increases in population cannabis use have not been followed by increases in psychotic incidence."
The results of another clinical trial published earlier this month indicate that the recreational use of marijuana does not affect brain chemistry in a way that is consistent with the development of schizophrenia.
"Should we expect an apology -- or even better, a change in policy -- from the Gordon Brown regime any time soon? Or at the very least, will some sort of 'correction' be forthcoming from the mainstream news media?" asked Paul Armentano, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "I wouldn't hold my breath."
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/07/chronic_city_this_just_in_--_s.php
please wake up and see that the governments hate you. they despise you and only like to keep you around for your taxs. they will lie to you, and the crazy thing is, people beleive them! despite their LOOOOOOOOONG track record of lies from before. time and time again. absolute power corrupts absolutly always will even jesus would be a hitler if he ruled the world imo. above are just a few articles that took minimal searching to find!
it seems if you really loved it and partook in it every day my respected brother, you would take the time to find out the truth about negative things said about it.
i LOVE it like a freind, and will research any ills thrown against it. for they are just another in a long string of lies.
some lies from the past people beleived (that to me, were no more unbeleiveable than the current)
pot makes black men want to rape white women.
pot makes mexicans violent.
pot kills you.
pot makes you violent and trip out like a combination of crack/meth/herione/and bromodragonfly
pot kills brain cells (totally refuted)
pot causes cancer
pot kills sperm
pot causes suicidal depression
pot is the main income source for terrorists.
if aliens attacked earth, governments would blame drugs... would you beleive them then too?
there's more... but this is enough. people BELEIVED this stuff too. because, well, why would their government lie to them? why would their government pay people to agree with them so that they sounded more credible? why?
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 silosighbin
this is the apocalypse
Registered: 05/17/09
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 Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10873147 - 08/16/09 10:16 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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You're preaching to the choir dude...
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i am caustic
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HopanDubMan
Jelly bomb ass shit....
Registered: 08/14/09
Posts: 1,996
Loc: Washington
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: silosighbin]
#10873160 - 08/16/09 10:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Marijuana and schizo? I would like to believe that marijuana could help people with schizophrenia.
Geeze the government is so good at lying. And people are so good at falling into their traps.
It sucks.
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WakaWaka
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: HopanDubMan]
#10873276 - 08/16/09 10:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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marijuana CAN cause psychotic episodes in schizophrenics, and it particularly brings out the paranoia. Ever seen somebody get stoned and then start checking 2 foot cupboards for people hiding in them? Although it DOES seem to be beneficial in a lot of ways, by increasing their awareness, but extreme paranoia also comes along with that. Also I've known people who only after smoking weed start hallucinating like crazy and hearing very malevolent voices. It doesn't cause schizophrenia but it can definitely exacerbate it, and personally, I never recommend a schizophrenic to smoke, based on MUCH experience with it.
Sometimes when they are level-headed, which is often only with the help of medication, it seems fine, but often then they will have an acute awareness of how their medicine is killing them, but then when they quit taking their medicine, they become a great danger to themselves and those around them...it is a very complicated issue, that I am very morally conflicted about, and gives me a bit of sadness...
Sometimes it really does make me wonder when they start saying the government is trying to kill them on purpose...I wish there was a healthy treatment for them
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MY HAIR IS A BIRD
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
   
Edited by the bizzle (08/16/09 10:44 PM)
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MileHiMycophiles
Stranger
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10874889 - 08/17/09 09:26 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
marijuana CAN cause psychotic episodes in schizophrenics,
hell yeah. that's it. but as these sights (above) and others (i didn't want to post a four page post) show, a temporary episode of exacerbated, already present schizophrenia, is NOT by any means, schizophrenia CAUSED by marijuana. there were many people in another thread who argued this till they were blue in the face. called marijuana a drug, talked about how it can cause schizophrenia with heavy long term use, ect. many things can cause schizophrenic episodes in one who is already unstable. i would recommend they go hollistic and contact james mooney of the native american church and schedule a spirit walk with peyote, as it has been proven to help with schizo and the reverend helps mentally ill and criminally unstable people to mental stability all the time under the request of the utah state government.
entheogens heal. sometimes they scare first, but they heal ultimately. i think if a "schizophrenic" toked in a safe enviroment, under supervision, with the sole intention of working out his problems, i feel he/she would. i feel the freak out comes from thinking "pot is bad" coupled with the urge to "just get high". pot makes them see things they ignore, and if they didn't run or flee from those feelings, they would be able to be healed.
just my opinion though.
which is why i took my post from another forum, added to it, and made it it's own topic.
isn't this important? isn't it important enough to memorize some facts about it, and then next time some one says that, (or any of the past lies about pot posted above) you can refute them and educate the person who said them?
it is in my opinion.  peace all.
(and more peace if we get more people smoking and toking and joking.)
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solstice
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10875552 - 08/17/09 12:19 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
Quote:
marijuana CAN cause psychotic episodes in schizophrenics,
hell yeah. that's it. but as these sights (above) and others (i didn't want to post a four page post) show, a temporary episode of exacerbated, already present schizophrenia, is NOT by any means, schizophrenia CAUSED by marijuana. there were many people in another thread who argued this till they were blue in the face. called marijuana a drug, talked about how it can cause schizophrenia with heavy long term use, ect. many things can cause schizophrenic episodes in one who is already unstable. i would recommend they go hollistic and contact james mooney of the native american church and schedule a spirit walk with peyote, as it has been proven to help with schizo and the reverend helps mentally ill and criminally unstable people to mental stability all the time under the request of the utah state government.
entheogens heal. sometimes they scare first, but they heal ultimately. i think if a "schizophrenic" toked in a safe enviroment, under supervision, with the sole intention of working out his problems, i feel he/she would. i feel the freak out comes from thinking "pot is bad" coupled with the urge to "just get high". pot makes them see things they ignore, and if they didn't run or flee from those feelings, they would be able to be healed.
just my opinion though.
which is why i took my post from another forum, added to it, and made it it's own topic.
isn't this important? isn't it important enough to memorize some facts about it, and then next time some one says that, (or any of the past lies about pot posted above) you can refute them and educate the person who said them?
it is in my opinion. peace all.
(and more peace if we get more people smoking and toking and joking.)
Yes! I agree. Thank you for taking the time to post that. 
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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tektonic
Mr. Mani-fest-ival
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10875678 - 08/17/09 12:47 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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what's wrong with being schizo? when used properly it's a powerful state of mind 
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Growery
Daily Tzolkin
   
"If triangles' had a God, he would have 3 sides."
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Radar
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: tektonic]
#10875762 - 08/17/09 01:03 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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VERY few people believe these things you've listed above. I think you are geting worked up over nothing.
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We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.
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tektonic
Mr. Mani-fest-ival
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: Radar]
#10875780 - 08/17/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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me? 
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Growery
Daily Tzolkin
"If triangles' had a God, he would have 3 sides."
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
Registered: 04/14/09
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10875824 - 08/17/09 01:14 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
Quote:
marijuana CAN cause psychotic episodes in schizophrenics,
i feel the freak out comes from thinking "pot is bad"
this is where you are wrong. A large chunk of schizophrenics are addictive types who love drugs...the marijuana can be helpful where this is concerned, but anyways my point being, people who absolutely do NOT think there is anything bad about marijuana, can very well smoke and then have a serious freak out...schizophrenia is the most mind-boggling thing in the world to me, and I have been around it my entire life, family and friends...believe me when I say, it can definitely cause some really bad experiences, and I am one of the most pro-pot people around. But I am VERY cautious about schizophrenic people smoking.
You would THINK a safe environment would keep a person from thinking there are people hiding in the cupboards waiting to kill them, but that is not always the case. In other scenarios, like I said, it increases the effect of malevolent voices telling them dangerous things.
It CAN be helpful at times...but until you've witnessed the level of helplessness in a person undergoing a true psychotic episode, not just schizophrenia, but a truly psychotic episode...you shouldn't make such claims. I'm not saying I have the answer...but based on much experience, you can't help a psychotic person by means you could help anybody else, they can't have sole intention to heal because they have no intention of anything, they are unaware and as if possessed.
I don't know...maybe you experiment with it, with somebody having a truly psychotic episode, to the point where you feel like you have no choice but to call the ambulance, but have them smoke instead...then report back.
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MY HAIR IS A BIRD
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 01:31 PM)
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silosighbin
this is the apocalypse
Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 1,757
Loc: isla vista baby!
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10875913 - 08/17/09 01:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Marijuana use can be triggered by schizophrenia, not the other way around
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i am caustic
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: silosighbin]
#10875925 - 08/17/09 01:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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post edited ^^^
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MY HAIR IS A BIRD
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 02:16 PM)
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silosighbin
this is the apocalypse
Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 1,757
Loc: isla vista baby!
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10876052 - 08/17/09 01:58 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
the bizzle said:
post edited ^^^
please dont imply that I am implying marijuana causes schizophrenia in any way
my post had nothing to do with yours dude. chill out man
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i am caustic
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silosighbin
this is the apocalypse
Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 1,757
Loc: isla vista baby!
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: tektonic]
#10876067 - 08/17/09 02:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
tektonic said:
what's wrong with being schizo? when used properly it's a powerful state of mind
shut the fuck up. schizophrenia is horrible, how can you say that shit
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i am caustic
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shadyy
aHhahhHA
Registered: 09/08/08
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10876151 - 08/17/09 02:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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weed made me shizo!
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ga ga ga eets eets how you gone be mad on vacation?
MONICA COULDN'T TELL TIME UNTIL SHE WAS 13
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skatealex2
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: shadyy]
#10876244 - 08/17/09 02:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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that explains everything 
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shadyy
aHhahhHA
Registered: 09/08/08
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: skatealex2]
#10876376 - 08/17/09 02:50 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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ga ga ga eets eets how you gone be mad on vacation?
MONICA COULDN'T TELL TIME UNTIL SHE WAS 13
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Spiderbaby
?
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Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland 
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10876439 - 08/17/09 02:58 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
a guy saying marijauna was a drug. i said no, it's a plant.
cannabis is a plant of course but it is also a drug, if it wasn't a drug you wouldn't be smoking it
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shadyy
aHhahhHA
Registered: 09/08/08
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Loc: winchestertonfieldville i...
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: Spiderbaby]
#10876452 - 08/17/09 03:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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i would
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ga ga ga eets eets how you gone be mad on vacation?
MONICA COULDN'T TELL TIME UNTIL SHE WAS 13
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Spiderbaby
?
Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 4 years, 26 days
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: shadyy]
#10876459 - 08/17/09 03:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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i have to respect your devotion to 
btw im guessing thats a firecracker in the bottom picture? looks tasty
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silosighbin
this is the apocalypse
Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 1,757
Loc: isla vista baby!
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: shadyy]
#10876497 - 08/17/09 03:10 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shadysteve said:
i would
ohhh my Godddd that top picture looks amazing
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i am caustic
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tektonic
Mr. Mani-fest-ival
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,240
Loc: RL
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: silosighbin]
#10876649 - 08/17/09 03:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
silosighbin said:
Quote:
tektonic said:
what's wrong with being schizo? when used properly it's a powerful state of mind
shut the fuck up. schizophrenia is horrible, how can you say that shit
 wtf? i'm not even talking dude. what good would it do you if i shut up?
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Growery
Daily Tzolkin
"If triangles' had a God, he would have 3 sides."
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: tektonic]
#10876760 - 08/17/09 03:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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McKenna is NOT schizophrenic, and probably hasn't been around schizophrenics enough
It's nothing like "melancholia" or "alternate thinking"...it's closer to fucking demonic possession...these people become a DANGER to themselves, and during a psychotic episode a person will stay awake for DAYS, their lack of self-awareness and their seriously dangerous behavior gets to the point where even a shamanic-type thinker like myself does not know what to do other than to call the ambulance, only after days of intense turmoil trying to help them, because that's an option i HATE to resort to.
Schizophrenia and shamanic mentality are WORLDS apart.
McKenna has finally lost credibility with me. I can't blame him for thinking that way...I did too, until those ideas were torn apart again and again by first hand experience with psychotics.
Now, I will go WAY out on a limb here, and present the EXTREME possibility that there is some chance that they were originally shamanic minded, and some outside intelligence, whether government, spiritual, or both, did something to them to keep them at bay by making them impossibly crazy, but that is pretty extreme, crazy in itself, and unlikely.
But to say schizophrenia, if used properly, is a powerful state of mind...is highly erroneous. Schizophrenics are often the most self-centered people you could ever meet. Not all, granted (there are also various forms of schizophrenia, so obviously, that doesnt apply to all), some are VERY intelligent and mature, even more genius in ways than most people, but many seem like they are stuck in a self-centered child-like state, only much more extreme.
Although, sometimes it does seem very possible that they emit a bright light that attracts malevolent beings to in turn make them the way they are, so it IS possible (anything is possible), that they could somehow overcome this
But please, do not make any assertions about schizophrenics unless you ARE one or have spent a lifetime around them.
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MY HAIR IS A BIRD
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Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 03:58 PM)
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solstice
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10876827 - 08/17/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's nothing like "melancholia" or "alternate thinking"...it's closer to fucking demonic possession...these people become a DANGER to themselves, and during a psychotic episode a person will stay awake for DAYS, their lack of self-awareness and their seriously dangerous behavior gets to the point where even a shamanic-type thinker like myself does not know what to do other than to call the ambulance, only after days of intense turmoil trying to help them, because that's an option i HATE to resort to.
But dude, there's different levels of schizophrenia and they're not all as bad as yuo make it sound. Don't misunderstand me though, I agree with you that it's not something to take lightly.
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McKenna has finally lost credibility with me. I can't blame him for thinking that way...I did too, until those ideas were torn apart again and again by first hand experience with psychotics.
Then I don't think you should be so harsh against him. Keep in mind that you thought the same in the past.
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Now, I will go WAY out on a limb here, and present the EXTREME possibility that there is some chance that they were originally shamanic minded, and some outside intelligence, whether government, spiritual, or both, did something to them to keep them at bay by making them impossibly crazy, but that is pretty extreme, crazy in itself, and unlikely
Now you've got a good point! Any disease, especial mental diseases are bound to get worst in this day and age because we lack the tools to cure them. And I think that's what McKenna tried to say.
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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the bizzle
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: solstice]
#10876858 - 08/17/09 04:08 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
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McKenna has finally lost credibility with me. I can't blame him for thinking that way...I did too, until those ideas were torn apart again and again by first hand experience with psychotics.
Then I don't think you should be so harsh against him. Keep in mind that you thought the same in the past.
I didn't go around publicizing my ideas to a very receptive audience though.
If I once thought that cat scratches caused AIDS, I wouldn't blame anybody else for thinking that either, but it's different when they are a very well established and respected name, considered an "authority" of sorts, and go around saying CAT SCRATCHES CAUSE AIDS! to large audiences
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Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 04:26 PM)
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the bizzle
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: solstice]
#10876880 - 08/17/09 04:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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solstice said:
But dude, there's different levels of schizophrenia and they're not all as bad as yuo make it sound. Don't misunderstand me though, I agree with you that it's not something to take lightly.
I also said that myself. I am very well aware of this
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Now you've got a good point! Any disease, especial mental diseases are bound to get worst in this day and age because we lack the tools to cure them. And I think that's what McKenna tried to say.
No...he was implying that it's all in the mind...believe me when I say, it is NOT. The extreme possibility I presented was way more extreme than any of his ideas. I'm talking about like intentional secret genetic manipulation or something of the like, maybe even through some of the medicines...but again...don't think I believe this, I just like to consider that ANYTHING is possible, and have already stated this is very extreme and very unlikely. Just some of the theories of psychotics during episodes makes you stop and wonder for a second, but then again, many of them are exceptionally rediculous and way off-base.
Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 04:19 PM)
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solstice
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10876903 - 08/17/09 04:16 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alright! I was just sayin'! 
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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MileHiMycophiles
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: solstice]
#10877263 - 08/17/09 05:25 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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wow ya'll what a great response. dialogue encourages research, and therefore, slef improvement, so this is great. we all need to be fully aware of how these things affect us for real.
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But to say schizophrenia, if used properly, is a powerful state of mind...is highly erroneous. Schizophrenics are often the most self-centered people you could ever meet. Not all, granted (there are also various forms of schizophrenia, so obviously, that doesnt apply to all), some are VERY intelligent and mature, even more genius in ways than most people, but many seem like they are stuck in a self-centered child-like state, only much more extreme.
first off, he was joking, and we should always have humor about our darkness so we might battle it more effectively, i didn't feel he was being malicious.
second... hey yo, you describe it as the dark side of the ying yang, or the anger beast in all of our hearts growing to control the very actions of the schizo.
wouldn't entheogens in the right meditative supportive setting help? they tend to make everyone less self centered. when you not only see the connection of all, but FEEL it, then you stop being possesed by selfishness. right?
just a thought. anyway, the way you describe schizophrenics, then many many things could set them off, pot just being one of them. just because it starts to show them where their being selfish.
am i misunderstanding you? if they were prepared for self examination, could not pot possibly help? the doctor in my quote from the website felt pretty sure that the episodes caused by pot in already established schizo's, were mild compared to some and went away with the high.
plus this post is about how pot does not CAUSE schizophrenia. if somebody already has it, then many things will set it off... that's why they're unstable.
but you won't just smoke a jay and be like, "oh my god i'm phsyco now!"
just my opinion.
ya'll like my new sig?
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skatealex2
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10877302 - 08/17/09 05:31 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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the bizzle
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10877469 - 08/17/09 05:58 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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MileHiMycophiles said:
am i misunderstanding you?
A good bit, yes. I am not making a blanket statement that schizophrenics are this or that, especially given my experience with a WIDE ARRAY of schizophrenic conditions.
I am not trying to present it as "the dark side of the ying yang" either...it is simply something that is hardly understood, by anybody.
Also, i doubt he was joking, based on the McKenna video he presented.
I have always felt that surely natural treatment through awareness would be better than deadly medicines, but it is not that simple. Based on my experience, SOME entheogens seem to be helpful, particularly peyote...LSD, however is an extremely RISKY if not downright dangerous choice, and I would personally recommend against that very much.
Marijuana, is iffy...it really depends on the person, and their particular condition. For some, it does help to make them more aware, for some... for the exceptionally selfish addictive type, marijuana does little to help, other than substituting the drug they are really after, and sometimes just makes them want to do even harder drugs. They simply don't get what you might get out of it. It would be nice, but it's really not that simple. But then again, for some, it does help them to not want harmful drugs. But unfortunately, this is sometimes only with the help of anti-psychotic medication.
Is it possible that a lifetime of dangerous medications has caused them to have such an extreme and dangerous illness? I don't know. Could they be cured by some sort of shamanic bad-spirit removal? I really don't know.
But the thing I was trying to say is, don't make claims about schizophrenia until you've spent years trying to do everything in your power to help them, and have seen the darkest sides of it. It is much more than a personality disorder.
There are some schizophrenics who claim that ayahuasca has helped them with their problem. That is very possible, but I have only given ayahuasca to a schizophrenic once, and that was before their problem progressed into a much greater illness. Marijuana, however, is definitely not enough to constitute a real treatment. That was mostly what I was getting at.
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memory_nirvana
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10877834 - 08/17/09 07:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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maybe its the side affect of paranoia that brings the schizophrenia out in the individual i manage a group home for people with developmental disability's 2 of the guys in my home have schizophrenia and episodes get triggered heavily when there is even so much as a remote thought of "i might get caught" or "do they know"
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memory_nirvana
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: memory_nirvana]
#10877859 - 08/17/09 07:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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one of the guy's @ the house that has it is extraordinary he also has sever mr but he has the ability to see EVERYTHING out side the box he can not look at anything inside the box and can solve any problem and overcome any obstacle without a second thought
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the bizzle
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: memory_nirvana]
#10877873 - 08/17/09 07:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I DID say some of them are some of the most genius people you will ever meet. But back to the subject of paranoia, thinking everybody in the world is plotting to kill you has nothing to do with fear of getting caught smoking. Please understand I am not trying to make any blanket statements...well except for this one: btw...just in case there was any confusion:
Marijuana definitely does not cause schizophrenia. Duh.
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Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 07:17 PM)
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MileHiMycophiles
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10878450 - 08/17/09 08:44 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
marijuana, however, is definitely not enough to constitute a real treatment. That was mostly what I was getting at.
me neither, just conjecture.
Quote:
Marijuana definitely does not cause schizophrenia. Duh.
see, so we agree.
the rest of your posts were well worded and spoken, and, seeing as we agree on the main point, then i'd say we're square.
some of the media frenzy and government hype and (i know this from years of experience) drug and alcohol treatment programs. they say that marijauna causes schizophrenia right out. among other horrors.
cool man. i'm pretty fucking bi polar, which is another serious mental illness, and i'm on a steady healthy diet, with lots of kefir and excercise and mushrooms and pot. lows get less low and highs are more mellow, therefor i'm balanced.
i'm on no medication. i had some rough times on medication.
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oxalic32
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Edited by oxalic32 (04/05/11 01:37 PM)
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the bizzle
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10878534 - 08/17/09 08:56 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
Quote:
marijuana, however, is definitely not enough to constitute a real treatment. That was mostly what I was getting at.
me neither, just conjecture.
Quote:
Marijuana definitely does not cause schizophrenia. Duh.
see, so we agree.
the rest of your posts were well worded and spoken, and, seeing as we agree on the main point, then i'd say we're square.
some of the media frenzy and government hype and (i know this from years of experience) drug and alcohol treatment programs. they say that marijauna causes schizophrenia right out. among other horrors.
cool man. i'm pretty fucking bi polar, which is another serious mental illness, and i'm on a steady healthy diet, with lots of kefir and excercise and mushrooms and pot. lows get less low and highs are more mellow, therefor i'm balanced.
i'm on no medication. i had some rough times on medication.
lol...I don't really feel like going back through all the posts, but I don't think it was you who sparked most of my posts. Good to hear you are doing well  . I really don't like the medicines they give people, only when it seems like the only good alternative to a person who is so out of it they are likely to step in front of traffic or something without being aware of themselves...even then I still hope a better option is discovered.
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MileHiMycophiles
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10878959 - 08/17/09 09:52 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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one day. there are diet links, and a company called, "empower" is exploiting it. but if you look up the mental health diet (hi protien and veggies, low carbs and sugars basically to dumb it down) and heavy supplement use... C, B's, omega 3,6,9, ect... plus something to balance out you digestive system. lots of people with mental illness just haven't been able to absorb vitamins from their food for years of their life and it builds up to catastrophe eventually.
but we're all different, and there's a cure for each of us, it's up to us to find it. some get on a drug that kinda works, and are afraid to keep searching, and that's ok, mental illness is scary. one feels like a monster. i've been level for about three months now, but it was a fucking hard road.
i do love my pot though.
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veda_sticks
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10879075 - 08/17/09 10:07 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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interesitng
I have a made thats a paranoid schizophrenic. Ive never seen him have an episode. He seems pretty normal to me except you will never find him in a crowded place. He goes out on his own though so its not too bad. we'll go fishing, but fishing is very calming and thats probably why he likes it.
He cant deal with people, wont go to supermarkets, partys etc, anywhere with unknown unpredictable people.
He smokes a shitload of weed thoiugh. Like hell grow lots of plants and be smoking them all before there even ready to harvest.
I go over there and a joint will get rolled, smokes some passes, then has a bucket, coughs his lungs out then a cig. then another joint gets rolled maybe 20 minutes later, another bucket. constantly through the day. Smokes bongs too inbetween that.
Hew doesnt sleep to well either. My gf said weed was partly to blame, aswell as an ex girlfriend that treated him real bad.
IDK
i cant smoke weed anymore, 1 day it just stopped being fun. Now all it just is make me paranoid and hungry
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solstice
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: veda_sticks]
#10881115 - 08/18/09 06:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah weed is tricky for some, me among them.
My best friend... we had been friends for about 15 years and almost a year ago he suddenly blew a fuse. He's the kind of guy who's very intelligent and very people oriented but also, some people suspected, a bit autistic. He lives in his own world. It's not problematic and it shows only when he's sure of something but he's wrong and he just won't take it in. Or he always acted like he had lessons to give to others but never took the lessons others might give him.
So anyway. Three years ago his father, who is a model for him, helped him open up his own business in town. It always was a dream of his to own his own business. He was the one who sold us our weed for years actually. So after three years of running and working this place full time by himself he had to close it down because it was barely making enough money to keep filling the shelves when he sold stuff. So, sadly, he decided to close down and come work with me as a cook at the coffee place I used to work at.
This friend is an amazing cook. He goes in some kind of trance when he does and he ends up making the best meals ever. He loves it, as he loves his drinks, his weed and his guitar. He always wants the highest quality in everything.
So he came to work as a cook and we had lots of projects for the place since the owner, my boss, was letting the place go a bit. We wanted to change the menu for a better one etc etc. Until one day, after a rush I joked about some stupid stuff and he came close to hitting me. I was like: WTF?
Next thing I know, I learn that he called all our friends and told them that I am not to be trusted, that I am a rat and that they should stop seeing me. He even called our boss to try and make her fire me.
He basically went on crusade against me. For no apparent reason other than some old stuff that happened 10 years ago.
It didn't work because I was the fourth one he was trying to bring down like that, all because he thought we were the devil incarnate.
I never saw him again and our common friends don't see him much either. We hear from time to time that he goes back and forth from being okay to being paranoid and delusional.
Makes you appreciate mental health as well as doing your best to maintain it.
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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MileHiMycophiles
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: solstice]
#10881244 - 08/18/09 07:58 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hew doesnt sleep to well either. My gf said weed was partly to blame, aswell as an ex girlfriend that treated him real bad.
so this guy chooses to smoke for a problem he found a solution, and your GF just spouts off that it's that weeds fault? see, that's the kind of uneducated conjecture this thread is talking about. people randomly spitting facts they really know nothing about.
no offense.
people saying, "oh well, this guy has problems, MUST be the pot.
are we forgetting schizophrenia is a HIGHLY mentally suggestive disease? these people are so influenced by suggestion. they are very very psyco-sematic and will usually freak out over their own thoughts about something, not the effects of the thing itself.
saying that, if they hear enough propaganda about pot, they will freak out after smoking it.
my bi polarism when paranoid in its absolute stage, but i'm telling you, it's 905 diet. it really really is. we as a society get farther and farther away from "grains fruits veg's and meats from the farm" with our processed food, and we end up not getting any nutrients. vitamin fortification doesn't really mean shit as most peoples bodies don't get enough fiber to break down those vitamins and piss it out. expensive urine is all they get. that an an unstable brain due to not haveing enough folic acid, fish oil, b-12, vit c, ect. people with "mental illness" 90% of the time have also so signs of IBS (constipation, runs, whole chunks of undigested food, gas to the extreme) or stomach ulcers or they throw up alot. many recent studies show that their brains use more of these needed nutrients faster than your average guy/girl, so anything they DO get nutrient wise, goes to trying to keep up with their metabolism.
but most i've met won't fix thier diet, or quite drinking, or talk huge amounts of supplements and fiber to get it all down and absorb it. and doctors won't really help. they don't wanna go outta business so they keep finding things wrong.
it doesn't help they paranoids that people are really out to get them. if people weren't, they'd get free treatment outta love, and a more hollistic approach that had results. they don't want people better. they want a thriving mental health business.
i live a very normal life, and still clearly see governments and doctors can't be trusted because of what they are alone. they must prove themselves. maybe these people aren't always totally paranoid, but hyper synsetized?
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veda_sticks
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10881305 - 08/18/09 08:20 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
Quote:
Hew doesnt sleep to well either. My gf said weed was partly to blame, aswell as an ex girlfriend that treated him real bad.
so this guy chooses to smoke for a problem he found a solution, and your GF just spouts off that it's that weeds fault? see, that's the kind of uneducated conjecture this thread is talking about. people randomly spitting facts they really know nothing about.
no offense.
people saying, "oh well, this guy has problems, MUST be the pot.
are we forgetting schizophrenia is a HIGHLY mentally suggestive disease? these people are so influenced by suggestion. they are very very psyco-sematic and will usually freak out over their own thoughts about something, not the effects of the thing itself.
saying that, if they hear enough propaganda about pot, they will freak out after smoking it.
my bi polarism when paranoid in its absolute stage, but i'm telling you, it's 905 diet. it really really is. we as a society get farther and farther away from "grains fruits veg's and meats from the farm" with our processed food, and we end up not getting any nutrients. vitamin fortification doesn't really mean shit as most peoples bodies don't get enough fiber to break down those vitamins and piss it out. expensive urine is all they get. that an an unstable brain due to not haveing enough folic acid, fish oil, b-12, vit c, ect. people with "mental illness" 90% of the time have also so signs of IBS (constipation, runs, whole chunks of undigested food, gas to the extreme) or stomach ulcers or they throw up alot. many recent studies show that their brains use more of these needed nutrients faster than your average guy/girl, so anything they DO get nutrient wise, goes to trying to keep up with their metabolism.
but most i've met won't fix thier diet, or quite drinking, or talk huge amounts of supplements and fiber to get it all down and absorb it. and doctors won't really help. they don't wanna go outta business so they keep finding things wrong.
it doesn't help they paranoids that people are really out to get them. if people weren't, they'd get free treatment outta love, and a more hollistic approach that had results. they don't want people better. they want a thriving mental health business.
i live a very normal life, and still clearly see governments and doctors can't be trusted because of what they are alone. they must prove themselves. maybe these people aren't always totally paranoid, but hyper synsetized?
oh i agree with you there, unfortunatly my gf was brought up in that niave all drugs are bad type family. theres no changing her mind. she will tolerate weed but nothing else. not really her fault and i wouldnt force my opinions on anyone. they have to make up there own mind.
He smokes weed because it relieves his anxiety and hes very particular about what kind of weed he smokes. Its mostly indica which i can smoke now and then.
If i smoke sativa fuck scares the shit out of me.
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PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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MileHiMycophiles
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: veda_sticks]
#10881897 - 08/18/09 10:50 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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cool man. i understand. we're all different, anything i say is just my opinion. i respect ya there though.
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memory_nirvana
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10893404 - 08/19/09 09:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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i was not suggesting that the paranoia is the cause only that it may bring it more to the surface of the individual that has it everyone is different and things effect different people different ways some more powerful than others especially when we are speaking of Any substance and honestly speaking we have no concrete way of knowing all of the possibility's that can happen when you take a substance of any kind medically speaking problems such as depression all the way to schizophrenia and even sociopath all have to do with a chemical imbalance in the brain and we do not know even close to the amount of things needed to diagnose what causes certain things but we can factually state that ANY substance CAN and WILL effect the levels of certain chemicals in the brain (some more extreme than others) now having said this do i think that mj causes any mental illness, no however i do believe that it can treat some illnesses but some meds used to treat things are derived from the very thing that causes the sickness the most common knowledge example is with snake bites so honestly it scientifically it is passable that schizophrenia could be caused or simply triggered by a substance but its not at all likely
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Big Bird
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: memory_nirvana]
#10893865 - 08/19/09 11:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Short on time so i didn't read the whole thread. Not too sure on if marijuana can cause schizophrenia in a person alone (haven't read anything that i remember)but i've experienced reactive paranoid schizophrenia from frequent lsd and marijuana use last year. The weed exemplified the acids schizophrenic effects that took hold because of a sort of emotional intellectual crisis and either i would go paranoid which would consist of a sort of insane awarness and energy, or i would overcome the paranoia and accept this hightened state of awarness and a form of fluent image filled way of thinking would take over where information seems comes in from some unkown source that seems to also be involved with he peculiar coincidences and synchronicities in everyday as well as dreams.
After reading the invisible landscape i wasn't suprised to find McKenna's view on it since i'd seen that youtube video. He is not claiming that every schizophrenic has the potential to manifest shamanic abilities, only siting those with either type of reactive schizophrenia. He said essential and paranoid i beleive. Many people who overcome these types and rebuild the personality can then move anypoint from there, frequent relapses or complete integration. This was not his own idea by the way. It has been known that various features and experiences can lead one to be chosen as a shaman among tribes. Schizophrenia being one of them. Shit i dont know what i'm typing about anymore or where i was going, im fucking stoned, summers almost over, im going to go hit some deamster
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iluvfungi
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Re: marijuana does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: Spiderbaby]
#10894666 - 08/20/09 12:58 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Marijuana gives me a large pain in my ass. It really hurts. But I use fungus to compensate for this. Dem mushrooms always make the shit come out.
My post in comparison to your post, are of similar value. TROLL!
Besides if you give into the bullshit then people actually believe it. Give me a break man. What the f is with Potheads and Paranoia. God. They don't care about you man. Oh wait, you play the game "CHILD seek attention from PARENT." Where the Child is your childlike ego state and the PARENT is the authortive response (dominate figure); Why don't you play a different game?
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MileHiMycophiles
Stranger
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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Re: marijuana does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: iluvfungi]
#10903454 - 08/21/09 09:41 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oh wait, you play the game "CHILD seek attention from PARENT." Where the Child is your childlike ego state and the PARENT is the authortive response (dominate figure); Why don't you play a different game?
wow, while true, you're quite an asshole.
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iluvfungi
Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 1,488
Loc: Oakland, CA USA
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: marijuana does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10911088 - 08/22/09 10:58 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks. You'll thank me later.
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: marijuana does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: iluvfungi]
#10911215 - 08/22/09 11:17 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
iluvfungi said:
Thanks. You'll thank me later.
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MY HAIR IS A BIRD
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10911616 - 08/22/09 12:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
a guy saying marijauna was a drug. i said no, it's a plant. and well, read on.
This and many other statements are quite irrational in my opinion.
Marijuana is a drug containing plant. You say it is not a drug... well not technically, because marijuana refers to more than the drugs within it (for we can consider marijuana that has had its cannabinoids removed). But whenever people talk about marijuana they are talking about its use in a fashion that delivers the drug within it to the user. Thus it is, functionally, a drug. Unless you were talking about its use as a weed deterrent when implemented in a crop cycle. Or something like that.
Look, Marijuana probably increases the rate of schizophrenia. But so do many other factors in society. The only reason it is a problem if it induces schizophrenia anyway is that the public health service has to take the toll. This society has got to stop protecting people from themselves, and allow people to hurt themselves rather than hurting eachother. But since the govt also has some sort of obligation to take care of people when they are ill, it is unbeneficial to let people hurt themselves, because it costs everyone else. Our legal systems allow us to keep a lot of social order.
But they also lock us into paradigms, because to change fundamental laws could lead to chaos. The powerful people who would do the actual changing could end up making changes that people fear intensely. Even if you don't fear this, plenty of other people do, as there are always those that resist change. Simply due to what they have invested in the current situation. Change is inherently a dilution of their individual investment. Other people, who feel personally involved with the change, praise it and assert it.
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JohnnyRebel
Stranger
Registered: 08/20/09
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: Noteworthy]
#10912407 - 08/22/09 01:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Every single drug has a risk of causing some mental illness. This is simply because drugs alter your state of mind and if you happen to have a dormant case of schizophrenia, bi-polar, or whatever, any drug you take CAN enhance the effects of said illness. I really hate to break it to you people who believe that marijuana is a perfect plant that can do no wrong. It can! Now generally speaking it has lower risk factors than other drugs, but it doesn't mean it's perfectly safe.
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MileHiMycophiles
Stranger
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: JohnnyRebel]
#10912543 - 08/22/09 02:03 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Our legal systems allow us to keep a lot of social order.
lol. you're funny. i'd like to see an example of said "order" in a world that has as much killing raping and crime as ever... with even MORE mental illness since governments became more than simple "taxers". they are allowed into our lives more now, so they have more control than in 1678, yet things are just as bad if not worse for the human plight.
life is beautiful. if there weren't fucked up people, it would be heaven/nirvana. but alas, there are. and they are out to get you. doctors, lawyer, governments lie and cheat to get as much more security and money for themselves as they can.
you stating
Quote:
This and many other statements are quite irrational in my opinion.
is quite irraional in my opinion. poor poor devil, you trust a flawed system concocted up hundreds of years ago by men not as educated as you or i, that in turn, has been build upon and upgraded like a 1982 apple 2-E trying to run internet explorer 8.
it just doesn't work right, and it's constantly crashing.
you can't build laws for a new evolving world based on old ones. and the fact that any natural plant medicine is called a "drug" in the american (i only was born here, i don't claim this country, as nationalism is no better than racism) sense of the world (as they are the ones who coined the term "drug war") is silly.
american government and their allies (and the people who agree with their laws, regulations, scientific studies, ect.) have taken a bunch of things that come from nature, and declared them "drugs", and set war upon them.
america hates mother nature in that sense.
so yes, in your sense of the word, it is a drug. so is food with enough protein in it to get you a saratonin boost when you eat it.
but it is not a life destroying, mind breaking, addictive substance sythesized non naturally in a lab.
point made.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
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Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10931811 - 08/25/09 01:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
lol. you're funny. i'd like to see an example of said "order" in a world that has as much killing raping and crime as ever...
please... do extrapolate on this, for it is central to your disagreement with my post, but I have no idea where you get the idea that there is as much killing and raping in our society as the rest of the world and compared to the past? (as for crime.. well you need laws to have crime so obviously crime comes with civilisation)
your conclusions about what I believe in, at the end of your post, help me know that you are just taking my words and assuming meaning behind them based on all of the arguments youve had with people in the past. This is bad, because there are plenty of ignoramuses on either side of any widely-discussed argument
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MileHiMycophiles
Stranger
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: Noteworthy]
#10941758 - 08/26/09 01:54 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
there is as much killing and raping in our society as the rest of the world and compared to the past?
i never said that. i said that the world as a whole has just as much killing and raping and violence as ever. more, seeing as there's billions now instead of millions.
those said "conclusions" were more statements of what i believe is true. absolute power corrupts absolutly, i don't have trust or faith in anything governmental from anywhere in the world.
people say i'm crazy, i say they're blind. this whole world is pretty fucked. and its really obvious. no country is "doing it right". there's no true freedom anywhere. materialistic, small minded, resource burning without replenishing... and the worst of it is, it's not the individuals persons fault. I don't live this way. i don't do all this crap that hurts my world. i don't declare war on plants and call them "drugs". and i don't support any person who does. no person. no human being, has any more right or power than me. all these laws create more crime, you are right. the whole world is fucked. and so to listen to the people who made the world fucked (doctors, lawyers, politicians) and beleive them, will get you fucked.
i think the we are all equal, and all need love, and all need to be our own masters. then people would see the consequences of their actions. another arguement for pot. let every body smoke, and see if the general schizophrenia rate goes up. every body can drink, and we KNOW it causes liver damage.
the worlds not any better than it ever has been. we are just more aware of it now due to tech stuff. we may be evolving, but as we do, we teach our children to evolve towards being lazy, and needing shiny things, and fake boobies, and climbing the social ladder, ect ect.
one of the results of all this crap going on in the world?
fucked up doctors forgetting their hypocratic oath, and lieing by telling people pot causes schizophrenia.
we need a dose in the worlds water supply, or a huge fucking war to kill off half the idiots on this planet so mother earth can have a fighting chance again.
not trying to insult you friend. but please don't feel comfortable. the reason life bitch slaps people so hard is because of how fucked up the world is. and it all started with industrialization and agriculture long long ago. in a tribal based culture, the golden rule rules all. in our culture, the dollar rules all. i'm bored though so i'll stop typing, i find these conversations fun, but pointless. never have i ever felt like i actually changed someones mind about their beliefs, or ever helped them see the light. especially when "the light" is denouncing modern society as being the reason for our biggest woes (aids cancer global warming pollution and the resulting birth defects ecetecetecet) and living a life of danger as you break laws that are unjust at every turn you can.
you should read two books. "Ishmael" and "The story of B" both by Daniel Quinn.
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wolfyshazam
candyflipppppp'd
Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 8
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#11154028 - 09/29/09 10:38 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Edited by wolfyshazam (09/30/09 01:36 AM)
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Novelty
Stranger
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#12257272 - 03/23/10 06:09 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Rufus May a recovered schizophrenic now clinical psychologist suggests that schizophrenia is caused by various forms of post-traumatic stress. His research shows that listening to and understanding the voices a schizophrenic encounters can be a useful tool in healing the illness. In this sense marijuana could become useful to some schizophrenics depending on how the use is approached. Marijuana increases awareness of unconscious materials, thus increasing the schizophrenic’s awareness of the voices they encounter. The schizophrenic might therefore be able to integrate the voices into consciousness provided the voices are approached from a healthy perspective.
May’s work suggests that integration of unconscious material is the key to successfully recovering from the illness. This approach is also the core of Jung’s work, where he suggests that impulses or hidden thoughts are repressed as the Shadow self. Jung believes that lack of understanding of these unconscious archetypal figures leads to complexes in the personality “what we resist persist”.
In my opinion psychosis or complexes are caused by an unhealthy perspective of unconscious material. This is also emphasized in Humphry Osmond’s work where he collected the biographies of recovered schizophrenics and held that a psychiatrist can only understand the schizophrenic by understanding the rational way the mind makes sense of distorted perceptions. He pursued this idea exploring all avenues to gain insight into the shattered perceptions of schizophrenia, holding that the illness arises primarily from distortions of perception.
This is what Rufus May has to say on the topic of schizophrenia. Keep in mind that he has recovered from the illness:
"I believe people's voices are beings from their unconscious," says May. "We all hear voices in our dreams. We all meet other people in our dreams - sometimes people we know, sometimes they're not known to us or they are other creatures."
He says people who hear voices are able to access their dream world when they're awake. "They've got these characters talking to them." He talks to the voices through a kind of role-play adapted from couples' counselling techniques where different "parts" or personalities speak verbatim from a selected chair.
May says initially the voices often find him very threatening and do tell the person to hit him or worse. But so far, having spoken to hundreds of voices, it's never happened. "I guess because I'm there to help the person and I'm being respectful. The first thing I teach people is that they don't have to do what the voice says."
The other thing May does is the opposite of what happens in exorcisms. He tells the voices he is not trying to get rid of them. When that message gets through he finds the voices often calm down.
Though the voices are like nightmare figures, mostly May finds they're trying to protect the person - albeit in a macabre way. "So I don't see them as the enemy. I'm just saying we need to have peace talks with those experiences, not have a war trying to shut them down with medication."
May regards most mental health problems as some kind of post-traumatic reaction - be it the trauma of being alone, not having meaning in one's life, or be having been abused. If voices are part of a person and the therapy is designed to get people to accept and understand their voices, how does May go about integrating an evil voice?
"It's a destructive voice. I would define evil as causing harm. A destructive energy is a very frightened energy coming from some place of fear. So I don't want to demonise it, I want to understand it."
He describes the case of a placating and gentle man who had a an angry, commanding voice telling him to harm himself.
"I asked him to ask his voice why he wanted him to harm himself. The voice said, 'to show people how powerful you are'." The man then asked the voice whether, if he was powerful in other ways, he would still have to self-harm. Would the voice be happy if he was powerful in other ways? "The voice said: 'That's what I've been trying to tell you for years'." On face of it, the voice was evil, but what it represented was the man needing to reclaim power in his life.
Sorry for the long arse post. The truth is no one knows what the fuck schizophrenia is, but I think these people are making a pretty decent attempt at understating it.
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SummerDaisies
Out of Retirement
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: Novelty]
#12257389 - 03/23/10 06:27 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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schizophrenia scares the fucking shit out of me
it doesn't come from smoking cannabis tho
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[quote]Abuse said:
summerfaggot is one of the biggest cunts on this site.[/quote]
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quiksilver98
PsychedelicInsighter
Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 284
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: SummerDaisies]
#12257474 - 03/23/10 06:40 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Okay TBH I havent read the whole thread because im in a rush to get to work right now. BUT here is a fact. They did a census on all the marijuana trends and psychotic incidences and found that even when marijuana trends were going up psychotic cases stayed at a low 1-2% and in some cases went down when marijuana trends were up.
THis is my theory; You can also compare a country like China where I dont think a lot of people toke because of the harsh death penalty law there and Canada where we have the most abundance of tokers and check the psychotic rates....
I will research my theory when I get back.
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To open your mind you must close your eyes--->Perception is key<---Reality is not Actualality
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quiksilver98
PsychedelicInsighter
Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 284
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: Noteworthy]
#12257500 - 03/23/10 06:43 PM (14 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said:
Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
a guy saying marijauna was a drug. i said no, it's a plant. and well, read on.
This and many other statements are quite irrational in my opinion.
Marijuana is a drug containing plant. You say it is not a drug... well not technically, because marijuana refers to more than the drugs within it (for we can consider marijuana that has had its cannabinoids removed). But whenever people talk about marijuana they are talking about its use in a fashion that delivers the drug within it to the user. Thus it is, functionally, a drug. Unless you were talking about its use as a weed deterrent when implemented in a crop cycle. Or something like that.
Look, Marijuana probably increases the rate of schizophrenia. But so do many other factors in society. The only reason it is a problem if it induces schizophrenia anyway is that the public health service has to take the toll. This society has got to stop protecting people from themselves, and allow people to hurt themselves rather than hurting eachother. But since the govt also has some sort of obligation to take care of people when they are ill, it is unbeneficial to let people hurt themselves, because it costs everyone else. Our legal systems allow us to keep a lot of social order.
But they also lock us into paradigms, because to change fundamental laws could lead to chaos. The powerful people who would do the actual changing could end up making changes that people fear intensely. Even if you don't fear this, plenty of other people do, as there are always those that resist change. Simply due to what they have invested in the current situation. Change is inherently a dilution of their individual investment. Other people, who feel personally involved with the change, praise it and assert it.
EVERY PLANT IN THE WORLD HAS A DRUG IN IT. There is just some drugs that have pronounced effects more than others. Bananas contain the drugs aka amino acids L-Tryptophan L-Tyrosine L-Dopamine, serotonin, 5HTP and 5HT
Schizo rates remained the same when marijauna usage rates were steadily climbing.
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To open your mind you must close your eyes--->Perception is key<---Reality is not Actualality
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