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silosighbin
this is the apocalypse



Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 1,757
Loc: isla vista baby!
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: shadyy]
#10876497 - 08/17/09 03:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shadysteve said: i would
ohhh my Godddd that top picture looks amazing
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i am caustic
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tektonic
Mr. Mani-fest-ival



Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,240
Loc: RL
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: silosighbin]
#10876649 - 08/17/09 03:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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silosighbin said:
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tektonic said: what's wrong with being schizo? when used properly it's a powerful state of mind 
shut the fuck up. schizophrenia is horrible, how can you say that shit
wtf? i'm not even talking dude. what good would it do you if i shut up?
-------------------- Growery Daily Tzolkin
"If triangles' had a God, he would have 3 sides."
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: tektonic]
#10876760 - 08/17/09 03:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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McKenna is NOT schizophrenic, and probably hasn't been around schizophrenics enough
It's nothing like "melancholia" or "alternate thinking"...it's closer to fucking demonic possession...these people become a DANGER to themselves, and during a psychotic episode a person will stay awake for DAYS, their lack of self-awareness and their seriously dangerous behavior gets to the point where even a shamanic-type thinker like myself does not know what to do other than to call the ambulance, only after days of intense turmoil trying to help them, because that's an option i HATE to resort to.
Schizophrenia and shamanic mentality are WORLDS apart.
McKenna has finally lost credibility with me. I can't blame him for thinking that way...I did too, until those ideas were torn apart again and again by first hand experience with psychotics.
Now, I will go WAY out on a limb here, and present the EXTREME possibility that there is some chance that they were originally shamanic minded, and some outside intelligence, whether government, spiritual, or both, did something to them to keep them at bay by making them impossibly crazy, but that is pretty extreme, crazy in itself, and unlikely.
But to say schizophrenia, if used properly, is a powerful state of mind...is highly erroneous. Schizophrenics are often the most self-centered people you could ever meet. Not all, granted (there are also various forms of schizophrenia, so obviously, that doesnt apply to all), some are VERY intelligent and mature, even more genius in ways than most people, but many seem like they are stuck in a self-centered child-like state, only much more extreme.
Although, sometimes it does seem very possible that they emit a bright light that attracts malevolent beings to in turn make them the way they are, so it IS possible (anything is possible), that they could somehow overcome this
But please, do not make any assertions about schizophrenics unless you ARE one or have spent a lifetime around them.
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 03:58 PM)
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solstice
Hempowered



Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 2,003
Loc: Silly Cunt Valley
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10876827 - 08/17/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's nothing like "melancholia" or "alternate thinking"...it's closer to fucking demonic possession...these people become a DANGER to themselves, and during a psychotic episode a person will stay awake for DAYS, their lack of self-awareness and their seriously dangerous behavior gets to the point where even a shamanic-type thinker like myself does not know what to do other than to call the ambulance, only after days of intense turmoil trying to help them, because that's an option i HATE to resort to.
But dude, there's different levels of schizophrenia and they're not all as bad as yuo make it sound. Don't misunderstand me though, I agree with you that it's not something to take lightly.
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McKenna has finally lost credibility with me. I can't blame him for thinking that way...I did too, until those ideas were torn apart again and again by first hand experience with psychotics.
Then I don't think you should be so harsh against him. Keep in mind that you thought the same in the past.
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Now, I will go WAY out on a limb here, and present the EXTREME possibility that there is some chance that they were originally shamanic minded, and some outside intelligence, whether government, spiritual, or both, did something to them to keep them at bay by making them impossibly crazy, but that is pretty extreme, crazy in itself, and unlikely
Now you've got a good point! Any disease, especial mental diseases are bound to get worst in this day and age because we lack the tools to cure them. And I think that's what McKenna tried to say.
-------------------- Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: solstice]
#10876858 - 08/17/09 04:08 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
McKenna has finally lost credibility with me. I can't blame him for thinking that way...I did too, until those ideas were torn apart again and again by first hand experience with psychotics.
Then I don't think you should be so harsh against him. Keep in mind that you thought the same in the past.
I didn't go around publicizing my ideas to a very receptive audience though.
If I once thought that cat scratches caused AIDS, I wouldn't blame anybody else for thinking that either, but it's different when they are a very well established and respected name, considered an "authority" of sorts, and go around saying CAT SCRATCHES CAUSE AIDS! to large audiences
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 04:26 PM)
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: solstice]
#10876880 - 08/17/09 04:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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solstice said:
But dude, there's different levels of schizophrenia and they're not all as bad as yuo make it sound. Don't misunderstand me though, I agree with you that it's not something to take lightly.
I also said that myself. I am very well aware of this
Quote:
Now you've got a good point! Any disease, especial mental diseases are bound to get worst in this day and age because we lack the tools to cure them. And I think that's what McKenna tried to say.
No...he was implying that it's all in the mind...believe me when I say, it is NOT. The extreme possibility I presented was way more extreme than any of his ideas. I'm talking about like intentional secret genetic manipulation or something of the like, maybe even through some of the medicines...but again...don't think I believe this, I just like to consider that ANYTHING is possible, and have already stated this is very extreme and very unlikely. Just some of the theories of psychotics during episodes makes you stop and wonder for a second, but then again, many of them are exceptionally rediculous and way off-base.
Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 04:19 PM)
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solstice
Hempowered


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 2,003
Loc: Silly Cunt Valley
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10876903 - 08/17/09 04:16 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Alright! I was just sayin'!
-------------------- Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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MileHiMycophiles
Stranger

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: solstice]
#10877263 - 08/17/09 05:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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wow ya'll what a great response. dialogue encourages research, and therefore, slef improvement, so this is great. we all need to be fully aware of how these things affect us for real.
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But to say schizophrenia, if used properly, is a powerful state of mind...is highly erroneous. Schizophrenics are often the most self-centered people you could ever meet. Not all, granted (there are also various forms of schizophrenia, so obviously, that doesnt apply to all), some are VERY intelligent and mature, even more genius in ways than most people, but many seem like they are stuck in a self-centered child-like state, only much more extreme.
first off, he was joking, and we should always have humor about our darkness so we might battle it more effectively, i didn't feel he was being malicious. second... hey yo, you describe it as the dark side of the ying yang, or the anger beast in all of our hearts growing to control the very actions of the schizo.
wouldn't entheogens in the right meditative supportive setting help? they tend to make everyone less self centered. when you not only see the connection of all, but FEEL it, then you stop being possesed by selfishness. right?
just a thought. anyway, the way you describe schizophrenics, then many many things could set them off, pot just being one of them. just because it starts to show them where their being selfish. am i misunderstanding you? if they were prepared for self examination, could not pot possibly help? the doctor in my quote from the website felt pretty sure that the episodes caused by pot in already established schizo's, were mild compared to some and went away with the high.
plus this post is about how pot does not CAUSE schizophrenia. if somebody already has it, then many things will set it off... that's why they're unstable. but you won't just smoke a jay and be like, "oh my god i'm phsyco now!"
just my opinion. ya'll like my new sig?
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skatealex2
////////////////



Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 18,699
Last seen: 3 months, 24 days
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10877302 - 08/17/09 05:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10877469 - 08/17/09 05:58 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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MileHiMycophiles said: am i misunderstanding you?
A good bit, yes. I am not making a blanket statement that schizophrenics are this or that, especially given my experience with a WIDE ARRAY of schizophrenic conditions.
I am not trying to present it as "the dark side of the ying yang" either...it is simply something that is hardly understood, by anybody.
Also, i doubt he was joking, based on the McKenna video he presented.
I have always felt that surely natural treatment through awareness would be better than deadly medicines, but it is not that simple. Based on my experience, SOME entheogens seem to be helpful, particularly peyote...LSD, however is an extremely RISKY if not downright dangerous choice, and I would personally recommend against that very much.
Marijuana, is iffy...it really depends on the person, and their particular condition. For some, it does help to make them more aware, for some... for the exceptionally selfish addictive type, marijuana does little to help, other than substituting the drug they are really after, and sometimes just makes them want to do even harder drugs. They simply don't get what you might get out of it. It would be nice, but it's really not that simple. But then again, for some, it does help them to not want harmful drugs. But unfortunately, this is sometimes only with the help of anti-psychotic medication.
Is it possible that a lifetime of dangerous medications has caused them to have such an extreme and dangerous illness? I don't know. Could they be cured by some sort of shamanic bad-spirit removal? I really don't know.
But the thing I was trying to say is, don't make claims about schizophrenia until you've spent years trying to do everything in your power to help them, and have seen the darkest sides of it. It is much more than a personality disorder.
There are some schizophrenics who claim that ayahuasca has helped them with their problem. That is very possible, but I have only given ayahuasca to a schizophrenic once, and that was before their problem progressed into a much greater illness. Marijuana, however, is definitely not enough to constitute a real treatment. That was mostly what I was getting at.
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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memory_nirvana
nomad


Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 288
Loc: oklahoma
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10877834 - 08/17/09 07:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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maybe its the side affect of paranoia that brings the schizophrenia out in the individual i manage a group home for people with developmental disability's 2 of the guys in my home have schizophrenia and episodes get triggered heavily when there is even so much as a remote thought of "i might get caught" or "do they know"
-------------------- NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST
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memory_nirvana
nomad


Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 288
Loc: oklahoma
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: memory_nirvana]
#10877859 - 08/17/09 07:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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one of the guy's @ the house that has it is extraordinary he also has sever mr but he has the ability to see EVERYTHING out side the box he can not look at anything inside the box and can solve any problem and overcome any obstacle without a second thought
-------------------- NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: memory_nirvana]
#10877873 - 08/17/09 07:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I DID say some of them are some of the most genius people you will ever meet. But back to the subject of paranoia, thinking everybody in the world is plotting to kill you has nothing to do with fear of getting caught smoking. Please understand I am not trying to make any blanket statements...well except for this one: btw...just in case there was any confusion:
Marijuana definitely does not cause schizophrenia. Duh.
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
Edited by the bizzle (08/17/09 07:17 PM)
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MileHiMycophiles
Stranger

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10878450 - 08/17/09 08:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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marijuana, however, is definitely not enough to constitute a real treatment. That was mostly what I was getting at.
me neither, just conjecture.
Quote:
Marijuana definitely does not cause schizophrenia. Duh.
see, so we agree.
the rest of your posts were well worded and spoken, and, seeing as we agree on the main point, then i'd say we're square. some of the media frenzy and government hype and (i know this from years of experience) drug and alcohol treatment programs. they say that marijauna causes schizophrenia right out. among other horrors.
cool man. i'm pretty fucking bi polar, which is another serious mental illness, and i'm on a steady healthy diet, with lots of kefir and excercise and mushrooms and pot. lows get less low and highs are more mellow, therefor i'm balanced. i'm on no medication. i had some rough times on medication.
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 3,615
Loc: .
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Edited by oxalic32 (04/05/11 01:37 PM)
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10878534 - 08/17/09 08:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MileHiMycophiles said:
Quote:
marijuana, however, is definitely not enough to constitute a real treatment. That was mostly what I was getting at.
me neither, just conjecture.
Quote:
Marijuana definitely does not cause schizophrenia. Duh.
see, so we agree.
the rest of your posts were well worded and spoken, and, seeing as we agree on the main point, then i'd say we're square. some of the media frenzy and government hype and (i know this from years of experience) drug and alcohol treatment programs. they say that marijauna causes schizophrenia right out. among other horrors.
cool man. i'm pretty fucking bi polar, which is another serious mental illness, and i'm on a steady healthy diet, with lots of kefir and excercise and mushrooms and pot. lows get less low and highs are more mellow, therefor i'm balanced. i'm on no medication. i had some rough times on medication.
lol...I don't really feel like going back through all the posts, but I don't think it was you who sparked most of my posts. Good to hear you are doing well . I really don't like the medicines they give people, only when it seems like the only good alternative to a person who is so out of it they are likely to step in front of traffic or something without being aware of themselves...even then I still hope a better option is discovered.

-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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MileHiMycophiles
Stranger

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: the bizzle]
#10878959 - 08/17/09 09:52 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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one day. there are diet links, and a company called, "empower" is exploiting it. but if you look up the mental health diet (hi protien and veggies, low carbs and sugars basically to dumb it down) and heavy supplement use... C, B's, omega 3,6,9, ect... plus something to balance out you digestive system. lots of people with mental illness just haven't been able to absorb vitamins from their food for years of their life and it builds up to catastrophe eventually.
but we're all different, and there's a cure for each of us, it's up to us to find it. some get on a drug that kinda works, and are afraid to keep searching, and that's ok, mental illness is scary. one feels like a monster. i've been level for about three months now, but it was a fucking hard road.
i do love my pot though.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
#10879075 - 08/17/09 10:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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interesitng
I have a made thats a paranoid schizophrenic. Ive never seen him have an episode. He seems pretty normal to me except you will never find him in a crowded place. He goes out on his own though so its not too bad. we'll go fishing, but fishing is very calming and thats probably why he likes it.
He cant deal with people, wont go to supermarkets, partys etc, anywhere with unknown unpredictable people.
He smokes a shitload of weed thoiugh. Like hell grow lots of plants and be smoking them all before there even ready to harvest.
I go over there and a joint will get rolled, smokes some passes, then has a bucket, coughs his lungs out then a cig. then another joint gets rolled maybe 20 minutes later, another bucket. constantly through the day. Smokes bongs too inbetween that.
Hew doesnt sleep to well either. My gf said weed was partly to blame, aswell as an ex girlfriend that treated him real bad.
IDK
i cant smoke weed anymore, 1 day it just stopped being fun. Now all it just is make me paranoid and hungry
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solstice
Hempowered


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 2,003
Loc: Silly Cunt Valley
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: veda_sticks]
#10881115 - 08/18/09 06:52 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah weed is tricky for some, me among them.
My best friend... we had been friends for about 15 years and almost a year ago he suddenly blew a fuse. He's the kind of guy who's very intelligent and very people oriented but also, some people suspected, a bit autistic. He lives in his own world. It's not problematic and it shows only when he's sure of something but he's wrong and he just won't take it in. Or he always acted like he had lessons to give to others but never took the lessons others might give him.
So anyway. Three years ago his father, who is a model for him, helped him open up his own business in town. It always was a dream of his to own his own business. He was the one who sold us our weed for years actually. So after three years of running and working this place full time by himself he had to close it down because it was barely making enough money to keep filling the shelves when he sold stuff. So, sadly, he decided to close down and come work with me as a cook at the coffee place I used to work at.
This friend is an amazing cook. He goes in some kind of trance when he does and he ends up making the best meals ever. He loves it, as he loves his drinks, his weed and his guitar. He always wants the highest quality in everything.
So he came to work as a cook and we had lots of projects for the place since the owner, my boss, was letting the place go a bit. We wanted to change the menu for a better one etc etc. Until one day, after a rush I joked about some stupid stuff and he came close to hitting me. I was like: WTF?
Next thing I know, I learn that he called all our friends and told them that I am not to be trusted, that I am a rat and that they should stop seeing me. He even called our boss to try and make her fire me.
He basically went on crusade against me. For no apparent reason other than some old stuff that happened 10 years ago.
It didn't work because I was the fourth one he was trying to bring down like that, all because he thought we were the devil incarnate.
I never saw him again and our common friends don't see him much either. We hear from time to time that he goes back and forth from being okay to being paranoid and delusional.
Makes you appreciate mental health as well as doing your best to maintain it.
-------------------- Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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MileHiMycophiles
Stranger

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 346
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Re: marijauna does NOT cause schizophrenia, this latest lie HAS to be stopped... [Re: solstice]
#10881244 - 08/18/09 07:58 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hew doesnt sleep to well either. My gf said weed was partly to blame, aswell as an ex girlfriend that treated him real bad.
so this guy chooses to smoke for a problem he found a solution, and your GF just spouts off that it's that weeds fault? see, that's the kind of uneducated conjecture this thread is talking about. people randomly spitting facts they really know nothing about. no offense. people saying, "oh well, this guy has problems, MUST be the pot.
are we forgetting schizophrenia is a HIGHLY mentally suggestive disease? these people are so influenced by suggestion. they are very very psyco-sematic and will usually freak out over their own thoughts about something, not the effects of the thing itself. saying that, if they hear enough propaganda about pot, they will freak out after smoking it.
my bi polarism when paranoid in its absolute stage, but i'm telling you, it's 905 diet. it really really is. we as a society get farther and farther away from "grains fruits veg's and meats from the farm" with our processed food, and we end up not getting any nutrients. vitamin fortification doesn't really mean shit as most peoples bodies don't get enough fiber to break down those vitamins and piss it out. expensive urine is all they get. that an an unstable brain due to not haveing enough folic acid, fish oil, b-12, vit c, ect. people with "mental illness" 90% of the time have also so signs of IBS (constipation, runs, whole chunks of undigested food, gas to the extreme) or stomach ulcers or they throw up alot. many recent studies show that their brains use more of these needed nutrients faster than your average guy/girl, so anything they DO get nutrient wise, goes to trying to keep up with their metabolism.
but most i've met won't fix thier diet, or quite drinking, or talk huge amounts of supplements and fiber to get it all down and absorb it. and doctors won't really help. they don't wanna go outta business so they keep finding things wrong.
it doesn't help they paranoids that people are really out to get them. if people weren't, they'd get free treatment outta love, and a more hollistic approach that had results. they don't want people better. they want a thriving mental health business.
i live a very normal life, and still clearly see governments and doctors can't be trusted because of what they are alone. they must prove themselves. maybe these people aren't always totally paranoid, but hyper synsetized?
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