Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

North Spore Shop: Bulk Substrate

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 |
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Yrat]
    #10882660 -

Read the OP and thread title.


--------------------

Discuss Politics

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Phred]
    #10883005 -

Phred said:
Quote:
Phred, he was purposefully fucking with me with the whole tax credit bullshit.


No, he wasn't. He was truthfully pointing out that the people whose income is so low they need food stamps and public housing are not paying income tax anyway, therefore a tax credit is completely worthless to them. 



No -

A tax DEDUCTION is completely worthless to someone who doesn't pay taxes.

A tax credit is useful even if you don't pay taxes.

If you've got a $500 tax deduction, but only a $200 liability - your tax bill is $0.

If you've got a $500 tax credit, but only a $200 liability - the government sends you a $300 check.

See "Earned Income Tax Credits" for an existing example.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: pescadero]
    #10883107 -

It's used for both definitions, but ya, that's true.


--------------------

Discuss Politics

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Poid]
    #10883126 -

Poid said:
The minimum wage today is the highest it's ever been...


Not even close, unless we want to pretend inflation doesn't exist.

If we adjust to constant 1996 dollars, the current minimum wage is equivalent to $5.33/hr.

That $5.28/hr (1996 dollars) was equaled or exceeded in the following years:

1956-1959 - highest $5.77(1956), lowest $5.39(1959)

1961-1983 - highest $7.21(1968), lowest $5.65 (1983)

So for the almost the entirety of the 30 years of minimum wage starting in 1955 it exceeded todays minimum wage.

Between 1955 and 1985 there were only 4 years where the minimum wage is less than it is today - 1955, 1960, 1984, 1985.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
    #10883205 -

Ferris said:
Read the OP and thread title.


OK, I will.  The thread title:

"We could feed and house everyone in America"

Why do I get the strange feeling that by "we" you mean "me" and not "you".  Because, unless you got a rich mouse in your pocket, I suspect the "we" that is going to pay for this does not at all include "you".


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10883323 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Yes and I'm sure business owners didn't raise the prices of their goods and services an equivalent amount each time the minimum wage goes up.


Generally they didn't. Price elasticity of demand and all that.

Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:I'm sure out of the goodness of their hearts they instead made less money for themselves and their stockholders.


No - out of the desire to remain competitive in the marketplace they generally have to eat a portion of loss.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
    #10883530 -

Ferris said:
Ya ok, so you don't give a fuck about the worker, which would explain why you skewed the facts.  America doesn't benefit from eliminating minimum wage, and that is fact.



Actually, because Hoover did not allow overinflated wages to drop back in the twenties he precipitated the huge unemployment problem that F.D.R. made worse during the Great Depression.

It is a fallacy to conclude that legislating high wages brings prosperity.

High wages are what you would naturally see in an economy that is producing more goods and services than it did before. 

It really is a situation where you want to make sure that you are not "putting the cart before the horse" metaphorically speaking.


http://mises.org/story/3503

Elasticity of wages are what used to allow the American economy to quickly rebound from unemployment.....these days, not so much......


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (08/18/09 03:32 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10883606 -

Another minority view, although at least closer to mainstream this time.  I've heard it before.


--------------------

Discuss Politics

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
    #10883656 -

Ferris said:
Another minority view, although at least closer to mainstream this time.  I've heard it before.



Why should "mainstream" matter to you?  The idiots who made fun of Peter Schiff for a couple years were all mainstream "economists".

People in large groups begin to exhibit a herd tendency that involves lack of original thought.

Interesting that you aren't attempting to argue that artificially high wages do not contribute to higher unemployment.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10883699 -

I'm only pointing that out because you present all your argumentative theories as facts.  I was just bitched at for being more explicit, although implicitly I'm presenting an argument as an argument.


--------------------

Discuss Politics

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
    #10883741 -

Ferris said:
I'm only pointing that out because you present all your argumentative theories as facts.  I was just bitched at for being more explicit, although implicitly I'm presenting an argument as an argument.



It is for the sake of clarity.

The Austrian school is not quite perfect, but they are good enough to correctly predict economic problems and their causes!  Government is not friendly to the Austrian school because government likes having the ability to monopolize counterfeiting for itself!

Peter Schiff was right. Fact.  Peter Schiff is an Austrian economist, also Fact.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10883852 -

No economic prediction system is even close to perfect.  A sample of one, sir, one.  Give it till the next few recessions to see if it has some false positives or missed predictions (libertarians have been predicting economic collapse for decades).


--------------------

Discuss Politics

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: pescadero]
    #10883870 -

pescadero said:
luvdemshrooms said:
Yes and I'm sure business owners didn't raise the prices of their goods and services an equivalent amount each time the minimum wage goes up.


Generally they didn't. Price elasticity of demand and all that.


Right. Sure. A business person that doesn't raise his prices to compensate for an increase in costs, will soon not be a business person (which I suspect you've never been).



Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:I'm sure out of the goodness of their hearts they instead made less money for themselves and their stockholders.


No - out of the desire to remain competitive in the marketplace they generally have to eat a portion of loss.


Two problems spring to mind.
1. All businesses are hit with the increase at the same time so staying competitive doesn't come into play here.
2. Even if a large business can eat some of the cost, the little, small businesses often can not. So, now not only are your minimum wage earners not making any more at the end of the week due to higher prices, but they are sometimes out of work when the person who can't afford to pay more.... has too.

Awesome system.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Yrat]
    #10884125 -

Ferris said:
No economic prediction system is even close to perfect.  A sample of one, sir, one.  Give it till the next few recessions to see if it has some false positives or missed predictions (libertarians have been predicting economic collapse for decades).



Peter was dead on for years. 



Go check out mises.org sometime if you want to see how accurate the Austrian school is in examining the economy.

The dollar has lost 96% of it's purchasing power since 1913.  The fed recently increased M2 by 700-800 BILLION.  That could potentially increase M1 by TRILLIONS. 

You talk about recessions.  Why don't you look into Austrian Business Cycle theory (that's what Peter Schiff was using to predict and comprehend what was going on in the housing market) if you want to actually KNOW what causes "recessions".


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10884147 -

If you're claiming that the predictive power is perfect, you're selling snake oil.


--------------------

Discuss Politics

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: danielx]
    #10884212 -

Ferris said:
Poid said:
Ferris said:
Really, as minimum wage drops back to a dollar, the number of people that can afford to buy a home drops drastically to pretty much nobody.


:dudewtf:

The minimum wage today is the highest it's ever been..


He was advocating his anarcho-capitalism libertarianism bullshit, as if it'll put more people in their own homes.

Minimum wage isn't high because businesses thought they've be nice.  It took centuries of struggle from the worker class to gain the political clout necessary to make the government enforce a minimum wage as high as it is.


The first minimum wage law was enacted a while ago:

From Minimum wage - Wikipedia:
Quote:
First enacted in Australia and New Zealand in the late nineteenth century, there is now legislation regarding minimum wage fixing in more than 90% of countries.


Minimum wage was its highest in US history in 1968, at $9.47, and was increased $1.40 from $5.85-$7.25 between 2007 and 2009:

From U.S. Minimum Wage History:
Quote:
A federal minimum wage was first set in 1938. The graph shows nominal (blue diamonds) and real (red squares) minimum wage values. Nominal values range from $0.25/hr in 1938 to $6.55/hr as of July 2008. The graph adjusts these wages to 2007 dollars (red squares) to show the real value of the minimum wage. Calculated in real 2007 dollars, the 1968 minimum wage was the highest at $9.47. The real dollar minimum wage (red squares) falls during periods Congress does not raise the minimum wage to keep up with inflation. The period 1997-2007, is the longest period during which the minimum wage has not been adjusted. The minimum wage increases in three $0.70 increments--to $5.85 in 2007, $6.55 in mid 2008, and to $7.25 in mid 2009. The real values after 2007 are projected for future decline in purchasing power.



All I'm saying is that it's not that low, and that it hasn't been getting lower. :shrug:


danielx said:
Poid said:
The minimum wage today is the highest it's ever been...



but its all relative. Minimum wage is $8 an hour in california, seems pretty good right? But with 9% sales tax, and high cost of living its shit on a stick.

You could make minimum wage $1000 a hour, but it wouldn't make anyone rich. It would do the exact opposite and make the money we already have worthless.

So you're saying that minimum wage law is essentially pointless? I guess you wouldn't mind working for $00.02 an hour then, right? :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
    #10884266 -

The Austrian school has been far more accurate than Bernanke, Krugman, and everyone else in the keynesian camp.

I didn't say they were perfect.  If you actually looked at the Peter Schiff vid you would see that he was uncannily accurate.

Others who follow Austrian economics were saying much of the same thing as Peter Schiff, he was just the most visible publicly.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10884308 -

You must know that Bernanke and the like, as public servants, can't go screaming recession every time the formula's predict it.


--------------------

Discuss Politics

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
    #10884416 -

Ferris said:
You must know that Bernanke and the like, as public servants, can't go screaming recession every time the formula's predict it.



Look at Ben's track record.  He just doesn't have a clue.




--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (08/18/09 05:39 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Poid]
    #10886105 -

Poid said:
I guess you wouldn't mind working for $00.02 an hour then, right? :shrug:


I wouldn't because I have this weird thing called an education. I know totally weird right?


--------------------
Long live kratom :kratom:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 |

North Spore Shop: Bulk Substrate

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* A couple of questions on the minimum wage
( 1 2 all )		 Evolving 3,612 29 10/21/03 03:40 PM
by Evolving
* Minimum Wage Revisited
( 1 2 all )		 Evolving 4,471 33 04/15/04 12:49 PM
by Tao
* Should minimum wage be raised?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 RebelSteve33 9,885 94 08/03/12 12:52 AM
by vladtepes
* When You Say You Hate Corporate America...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Anonymous 15,856 140 12/29/02 06:05 PM
by djfrog
* To All Americans Who Hate America
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Anonymous 16,251 155 12/19/02 11:29 AM
by Evolving
* Bush to America..."unemployment will help the economy"
( 1 2 all )		 carbonhoots 5,633 38 02/12/04 08:41 PM
by Phred
* Cosby on Black America
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )		 afoaf 11,403 160 06/13/04 05:09 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* When Democracy Failed: The warnings of history trendalM 1,234 15 03/19/04 03:59 PM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
9,843 topic views. 0 members, 68 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 17 queries.