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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Astrology demystified / good morning thread
    #10863663 - 08/15/09 04:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

The predictive power of things like astrology are due to their formality. By using a limited number of possible ambiguous predictions and applying an element of randomness to it, you get something that appears significant.

Here's an example.
We'll use a book that people subscribe significance to...lets say the Koran.

Now, take out all of the spaces and punctuation, and cram all of the letters together into one long stream of text.

Now, we'll give a significance to each of the different letters. For example, we'll let one letter mean gain, and one mean loss, another will mean time, while another means success, and so on and so on... Each of these letters having a quality that is compatible with any of the other characters, so that we may interpret the quality assigned for today's prediction via the two surrounding characters, and thus maintaining a balance between ambiguity and clarity.

Next we'll create a cyclical calendar that is divisible by the number of total characters in our book. For example, if there were 10,000 total characters, we could create a calendar consisting of 10 periods, each one being comprised of 10 smaller cycles of 100 days.

We'll use your birth date within the calendar as our starting point, and the date we are looking for a prediction on as our means of finding the proper character. Say you are born on the 415th day of our calender, and you are looking for your prediction for the 7005th day, you would simply start at the 415th character in the book, and roll through 7005 places to find your prediction for the day.

By limiting our possible predictions, and giving it a certain level of ambiguity via the interpretive quality of the surrounding characters you will always maintain the appearance of a certain degree of correct predictions. You can create any formal system like this you want, and it will always seem to have significance without a deeper inspection of whats really going on.

If you don't believe me, take some time, and try it for yourself. It's not magic, it's just the combination of our creative pattern seeking minds with a limited number of possible predictions, axiomatic guidelines, and a degree of chaos.


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Edited by blewmeanie (08/15/09 06:52 AM)

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10863706 - 08/15/09 05:36 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Astrology had very real roots.  The ancients utilized the sky to know when to plant crops etc

This was taken a step to far and people thought maybe it could predict everything.  Throw in some ambiguous character traits like you say and you've got what appears to be predicting something with a high level of accuracy.

Unfortunately its just cold reading tricks combined with a lack of general knowledge that convinces people that there's something more to it.  People tend to ignore things that don't fit and listen to things that do.  Its a shame that such a simple system is still duping the masses to this very day.

For anyone still not convinced that astrology is nothing more than a mere trick of the mind - they should consider the fact that the fundamental mathematics of which astrology were based on were found to be incorrect!  Meaning you should actually be a completely different star sign to what you think you are.:smile:

Here's a quick cold reading example...
Quote:

You are a person prone to bouts of real self-examination. This is in sharp contrast to a striking ability you have developed to appear socially very engaged, even the life and soul of the party; but in a way that only convinces others. You are all too aware of it being a facade.

You will often be at a gathering and find yourself playing a part. While on the one hand you'll be talkative and funny, you'll be detaching yourself to the point where you will find yourself watching everything going on around you and feeling utterly unable to engage. You'll play conversations back to yourself in your head and wonder what that person really meant when he said such-and-such - conversations that other people wouldn't give a second thought to.



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OfflineThe Centre
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10863710 - 08/15/09 05:42 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Astrology has way more variables than you think...

I feel it has to do with our place in the space-time continuum affecting our subconscious states, as astrology is very rarely used to give events, but it's predictions on emotional states is IMPOSSIBLY accurate.

But I do agree with that on many other forms of divinity, but astrology is impossibly accurate with quite a couple of variables, if you use complex astrology, not the grime you get these days.

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: The Centre]
    #10863713 - 08/15/09 05:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

It's not impossible at all. It's just the nature of a formal system.

You don't need to take my word for it, try it for yourself. :grin:

This stuff only seems impressive when you don't understand how to create and implement a formal system of logic.

One of these days I'm going to write up a big post going more in depth about formal systems, it really is something everyone should understand.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10863736 - 08/15/09 06:05 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Most people completely miss the point of divination. It has nothing to do with one's 'tendencies' or one's future.

The universe is hologrammatic so anything can be made into a system of divination really.
All that makes one system better than another is resonance through scale-invariance.

Divination divides aspects of any system so they may be identified, balanced, and made into a coherent whole. Solve et Coagula.

"...perhaps there is a pattern set up in the heavens for one who desires to see it, and having seen it, to find one in himself" - Plato

"The very first thing which we would like to clarify is that both the Tarot and the Zodiac are not external phenomena. They are not "out there" and should be considered living essences or archetypes within each individual. You are a living, breathing zodiac." - M. Tsarion

"Know that the philosopher has power over the stars, and not the stars over him." - Paracelsus

"As long as you still experience the stars as something above the head you lack the eye of knowledge." - Fredrick Nietzsche

"...when the planets of the Solar System are named or symbolized...it must not be supposed that the planetary bodies themselves are referred to, except as types on a purely physical plane of the septenary nature of the psychic and spiritual worlds." - Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky

"It is an erroneous interpretation of astrology to opine that special forces emanate from the planets and the stars." - R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz

"As we all know science began with the stars, and mankind discovered in them the dominants of the unconscious, the "gods," as well as the curious psychological qualities of the Zodiac: a complete projected theory of human character." – Carl Gustav Jung

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: The Centre]
    #10863751 - 08/15/09 06:17 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

it's predictions on emotional states is IMPOSSIBLY accurate.




You do realize the predictions are based on the wrong maths?  The system used is different to how it should be because of an error!  What does this tell you?

Besides, a human can experience hundreds of emotion changes in a day and often experiences several emotions at the same time.  Chuck that in with some ambiguous words to describe emotions and some selective reading and OF COURSE they will appear accurate.

It seems near insane to ignore all of the facts in favor of faith in the systems.  Its quite clear how they operate.


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: Ego Death]
    #10863786 - 08/15/09 06:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Goooooooodddd morning shroomery!


:awesome:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10863794 - 08/15/09 06:55 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
It's not impossible at all. It's just the nature of a formal system.

You don't need to take my word for it, try it for yourself. :grin:

This stuff only seems impressive when you don't understand how to create and implement a formal system of logic.

One of these days I'm going to write up a big post going more in depth about formal systems, it really is something everyone should understand.




Is Dungeons and Dragons a Formal system?


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #10863808 - 08/15/09 07:05 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know much about it, but from the little that I do know yes it is axiomatic.


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The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10863813 - 08/15/09 07:06 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)



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Offlineskin_
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10863836 - 08/15/09 07:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:lmao:


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Offlinesatyr
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Re: Astrology demystified / good morning thread [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10864047 - 08/15/09 09:25 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
The predictive power of things like astrology are due to their formality. By using a limited number of possible ambiguous predictions and applying an element of randomness to it, you get something that appears significant.

Here's an example.
We'll use a book that people subscribe significance to...lets say the Koran.

Now, take out all of the spaces and punctuation, and cram all of the letters together into one long stream of text.

Now, we'll give a significance to each of the different letters. For example, we'll let one letter mean gain, and one mean loss, another will mean time, while another means success, and so on and so on... Each of these letters having a quality that is compatible with any of the other characters, so that we may interpret the quality assigned for today's prediction via the two surrounding characters, and thus maintaining a balance between ambiguity and clarity.

Next we'll create a cyclical calendar that is divisible by the number of total characters in our book. For example, if there were 10,000 total characters, we could create a calendar consisting of 10 periods, each one being comprised of 10 smaller cycles of 100 days.

We'll use your birth date within the calendar as our starting point, and the date we are looking for a prediction on as our means of finding the proper character. Say you are born on the 415th day of our calender, and you are looking for your prediction for the 7005th day, you would simply start at the 415th character in the book, and roll through 7005 places to find your prediction for the day.

By limiting our possible predictions, and giving it a certain level of ambiguity via the interpretive quality of the surrounding characters you will always maintain the appearance of a certain degree of correct predictions. You can create any formal system like this you want, and it will always seem to have significance without a deeper inspection of whats really going on.

If you don't believe me, take some time, and try it for yourself. It's not magic, it's just the combination of our creative pattern seeking minds with a limited number of possible predictions, axiomatic guidelines, and a degree of chaos.



I agree with this completely, although there is much more to genuine astrology than mere random predictions.
I have been studying under an amazing astrologer for about 10 months now, and there is much more to the system than most people understand. Each planet, star and even comets and asteroids have very real and precise influences on the earth, weather, and psychology of man and his experiences, far from being just random patterns.
But this being said, what you said still remains true for many other systems, as it does for the horoscopes you usually find in the morning paper.
  The interesting thing about divination in general is the way seemingly meaningless systems have a tendency towards accuracy.
Lets take fortune cookies for example: If I remember correctly, these little novelties were invented by a chinese entrepreneur living in New York in order to sell more chinese takeout. Obviously, there are no deep mystical roots behind these cookies, just little strips of paper with random, usually vague messages stuffed into a disgusting little cookie. Now, this system is completely random, yet can deliver surprisingly accurate predictions.


--------------------
Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade :pm:

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Re: Astrology demystified / good morning thread [Re: satyr]
    #10864067 - 08/15/09 09:34 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I haven't seen a 'predicitive' fortune cookie in about 15 years.  They all usually have a 'wise saying' of some type with lottery numbers on the back side. 

Predictive fortune cookes were a great trick though.  "You will see your financial fortunes increase" was a great one.  Later that day you find a penny.. WOW.. those ancient Chinese sure have secrets!

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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10864068 - 08/15/09 09:34 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

you should check out your birth chart... natal chart calculator


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: Etherealfeeling]
    #10864081 - 08/15/09 09:38 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I just used my super astrology leet skillz to knock this prediction up, just for you :kiss:

You are a person prone to bouts of real self-examination. This is in sharp contrast to a striking ability you have developed to appear socially very engaged, even the life and soul of the party; but in a way that only convinces others. You are all too aware of it being a facade.

You will often be at a gathering and find yourself playing a part. While on the one hand you'll be talkative and funny, you'll be detaching yourself to the point where you will find yourself watching everything going on around you and feeling utterly unable to engage. You'll play conversations back to yourself in your head and wonder what that person really meant when he said such-and-such - conversations that other people wouldn't give a second thought to.

How have you learned to deal with this conflict? Though exercising control. You like to show a calm, self-assured, fluid kind of stability (but because this is self-consciously created, it will create bouts of frustrated silliness and a delight in extremes, or at least a delight in being seen to be extreme). You most easily recognize this control in how you are with people around you. You have learned to protect yourself by keeping people at bay. Because in the past you have learned to be disappointed by people (and because there were issues with you adjusting to your sexuality), you instinctively keep people at arms' length, until you decide they are to be allowed over that magic line into your group of close friends. However, once across that line, the problem is that an emotional dependency kicks in which leaves you feeling very hurt or rejected if it appears that they have betrayed that status.

Because you are prone to self-examination, you will be aware of these traits. However, you are unusually able to examine even that self-examination, which means that you have become concerned about what the real you is. You have become all too aware of facades, of sides of yourself which you present to the world, and you wonder if you have lost touch with the real and spontaneous you.

You are very creative, and have tried different avenues to utilize that ability. It may not be that you specifically, say, paint; it may be that your creativity shows itself in more subtle ways, but you will certainly find yourself having vivid and well-formed ideas which others will find hard to grasp. You set high standards for yourself, though, and in many ways are a bit of a perfectionist. The problem is, though, that it means you often don't get stuff done, because you are frustrated by the idea of mediocrity and are wearied by the idea of starting something afresh. However, once your brain is engaged you'll find yourself sailing. Very likely this will lead to you having considered writing a novel or some such, but a fear that you won't be able to achieve quite what you want stops you from getting on with it. But you have a real vision for things, which others fall short of. Particularly in your work situation, you are currently fighting against restraints upon your desire to express yourself freely.

Partly this is because there are ways in which you have been made to feel isolated from certain groups in the past - something of an outsider. Now what is happening is that you are taking that outsider role and defending it to the point of consciously avoiding creative and work pursuits. You have an enormous cynicism towards those who prefer to be part of a group or who exhibit any cliquey behavior, and you always feel a pang of disappointment when you see your 'close' friends seeming to follow that route. Deep down it feels like rejection.

For all that introspection, you have developed a sensational, dry sense of humour that makes connections quickly and wittily and will leave you making jokes that go right over the heads of others. You delight in it so much that you'll often rehearse jokes or amusing voices to understand yourself in order to 'spontaneously' impress others with them. But this is a healthy desire to impress, and although you hate catching yourself at it, it's nothing to be so worried about.

You're naturally a little disorganized. A look around your living space would likely show a box of photos, unorganized into albums, out-of-date medicines, broken items not thrown out, and notes to yourself significantly out of date. Something related to this is that you tend to lack motivation. Because you're resourceful and talented enough to be pretty successful when you put your mind to things, this encourages you to procrastinate and put them off. Equally, you've given up dreams a little easily when your mind flitted elsewhere. There are signs of an excursion into playing a musical instrument, which you have since abandoned, or are finding yourself less interested in. You have a real capacity for deciding that such-and-such a thing (or so-and-so a person) will be the be all and end all of everything and be with you for ever. But you'd rather try and fail, and swing from one extreme to the other, than settle for the little that you see others content with.

Conclusion: You present something of a conundrum, which won't surprise you. You are certainly bright, but unusually open to life's possibilities - something not normally found among achieving people. You would do well to be less self-absorbed, as it tends to distance you a little, and to relinquish some of the control you exercise when you present that stylized version of yourself to others. You could let people in a little more.


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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: Middleman]
    #10864082 - 08/15/09 09:38 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Holy crap I have rarely seen that many words strung together that have absolutely no meaning whatsoever.  The only possible exception is Plato.

I've noticed something about people and words:  Once you see the word 'aspect' in any context imaginable, it's almost a sure bet that everything that follows is pure horseshit.

Besides, everyone knows our greatest recent President was Ronald Reagan.  Ron had a cabal of close atrologers who advised him on issues of State.  Coincidence?  You decide!

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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: Ego Death]
    #10864086 - 08/15/09 09:44 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:super:


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Re: Astrology demystified [Re: Etherealfeeling]
    #10864092 - 08/15/09 09:47 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Astrology is nothing more than a complex board game you play with The Solar System and Memory.


--------------------

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SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



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