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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Ordering Pizza
    #10828014 -

This is an old video (from before Obama took power in the US) and from what I've read of life in the UK, it would be far more appropriate if the actors spoke with British accents, but it still gave me a chuckle or two.

Takeaway question - do the readers think this kind of thing is more likely to occur now that the Democrats have their hands on all the levers of power, or less likely?





Phred


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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: Phred]
    #10831104 -

That's an ACLU video.



And good point Phred.  How funny the same things the democrats are rallying against, and the same thing a vocal portion of their base is against, which the republicans supported are now being supported by the democrats.


Certainly it seems we are closer to that now then under the republicans a few years back.



Screw the government spying on us!  (Just give them our money, our medical records, and our rights so that they can protect us).


Reminds me of how my girlfriend was so sure obama would get us out of the middle east and stop Bush's plans for Iraq , despite the fact I informed her he has done everything in his official power to support the wars.  I asked why she thought he would do anything different once in office, and she got mad.


Now she's even more mad, and we just don't talk about it.  Apparently she bought the rhetoric, and thought he wouldn't really continue the "Bush wars" he supported up to that point (which were started by Democrats she voted for and who she likewise claims oppose the wars despite starting them).


That's what blind party allegiance will do to ya, and the country.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: johnm214]
    #10831237 -

This is closer then you think.


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10831880 -

The video is missing crosschecking for warrants, something that actually happens TODAY, albiet not universally.

One must notice the partisan wording of Phreds post, lending me to believe he still has not awoken to left/right paradigm.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10832928 -

DropScience said:
The video is missing crosschecking for warrants, something that actually happens TODAY, albiet not universally.

One must notice the partisan wording of Phreds post, lending me to believe he still has not awoken to left/right paradigm.


are you accusing him of trolling?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10833772 -

The more I hear the terms troll and flame these days the less I like the terms. As if eliciting a [emotional or not] response or giving an [emotional or not] response are somehow fundamentally socially incorrect just somehow seems absurd to me. These are discussion boards after all..

ahem:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]

Well maybe.. maybe not. As far as moderaters go I don't think it much matters as far as data is concerned, they after all have the power to control the outcome regardess of what is what.

These terms.. are so vauge, I could even accuse you of trolling, as it detracts the topic from the subject of his post onto the topic of trolling.. or I could accuse myself, or phred..

I would rather address the topic and information at hand than bicker over message board etiquette, especially when you consider you can never win over the moderator! haha.

Do I think Phred antagonizes people? most certainly! knowingly interrupts on topic discussion? Oh I've seen that too.. But I respect the guy for having an opinyon, which he clearly does. I'm just astounded that he maintains the one he does considering the available information month after month. I'm surprised by many of the moderators and a number of the habitual posters positions her - but alas that is the diversity of thought, I suppose.

I am just surprised that he is still framing things in left vs right when it's so plainly a freedom vs tyranny issue. It blows my mind how people still manage to wrap issues into pretzels to fit the left/right model.

Durring the bush admin, I spend so much time arguing with bush"conservatives" only to be labled a radical leftist in there eyes, but now with Obama in office.. EVEN ARUING ON THE SAME ISSUE such as say, the Real ID act.. The Obama'ables lable me as a "right wing extremist"...

I see this just so often.. I'm not calling out trolling.. I'm calling out on how the question was framed. I believe the way the question is asked is just as important as the answer.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10833863 -

Quote:
Takeaway question - do the readers think this kind of thing is more likely to occur now that the Democrats have their hands on all the levers of power, or less likely?



I'm going to say less likely.  National ID and all that jazz are conservative wildcards.  A couple of those items might have been satire of some liberal regulations, but nothing that has any serious support even amongst liberals.


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Discuss Politics

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10833943 -

Oh an, now to actually respond to the question..

All of those, with the exception of Ron Paul, running in this past election had loyalties and membership to the CFR, an internationalists think tank organization with the explicit goal of establishing and maintaining global governance, part of which is a systematic control grid over the general population of the established and yet to be established super-states. Given the trend toward data-basing, data mining, globalized health care, the stripping of constitutional liberties, etc advocated by CFR and Like minded organizations - those with close ties with whom consistently get elected to high office, one can only conclude that life becoming more like the video we have seen in the start of this thread. This is likely not because of which party wins the election, but that THE CLEAR MAJORITY of whom won have obligations to organizations that clearly advocate a vision of the world that resembles the one depicted in the video, not only that- but moreso, a far more terrifying future than having to eat tofu over pizza.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10833967 -

DropScience said:
Oh an, now to actually respond to the question..

All of those, with the exception of Ron Paul, running in this past election had loyalties and membership to the CFR, an internationalists think tank organization with the explicit goal of establishing and maintaining global governance, part of which is a systematic control grid over the general population of the established and yet to be established super-states. Given the trend toward data-basing, data mining, globalized health care, the stripping of constitutional liberties, etc advocated by CFR and Like minded organizations - those with close ties with whom consistently get elected to high office, one can only conclude that life becoming more like the video we have seen in the start of this thread. This is likely not because of which party wins the election, but that THE CLEAR MAJORITY of whom won have obligations to organizations that clearly advocate a vision of the world that resembles the one depicted in the video, not only that- but moreso, a far more terrifying future than having to eat tofu over pizza.


:tinfoil:


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Discuss Politics

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: Ferris]
    #10834024 -

Quote:
I'm going to say less likely.  National ID and all that jazz are conservative wildcards.  A couple of those items might have been satire of some liberal regulations, but nothing that has any serious support even amongst liberals.


Really? Thats awfully strange considering right at this moment
Unbelievably, Congress and the Obama administration are currently trying to resurrect the failed REAL ID Act.

Real ID, which passed in 2005, establishes a de facto National Identification System, and opens the doors for Federal biometric tracking of every American citizen.

Fortunately, no state currently complies with the burdensome mandates of the 2005 bill, and twenty-three have passed legislation refusing compliance.

You see, as Obama Administration Surveillance Czar Janet Napolitano pushes for a revamp of the system to get the invasive federal program up and running, there has never been a better time to for us to push back, and fight for an outright repeal of the original legislation.

And although Real ID is a clear attempt to establish a National ID System, the reality might be much worse -- an INTERNATIONAL Identification System.  That’s why it is so critical we get that law off the books.

You see, Real ID actually requires that driver’s license photographs meet United Nation’s biometric format standards.  At this level of sophistication, government software can analyze facial characteristics and generate a unique identification number.

Think about that for a moment -- your identity will be reduced to a single number in an international database that can be tracked globally by one-world government surveillance cameras and facial recognition software.

Last month, Senator Daniel Akaka introduced The PASS ID Act to tweak the 2005 Real, eh Dangerous ID legislation and ram this program into action over state opposition.

Supporters claim this REAL ID Redux bill softens requirements on states, supposedly making the breach of federalism a little more palatable.  But it is merely a transparent attempt to get the Dangerous ID system implemented in any form, only to be augmented later to meet government’s needs.

In fact, there is evidence that this reincarnated Dangerous ID bill could wind up being worse than the original.

Chief among the bill’s supporters is Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano, who stands to wield expansive and virtually unchecked power to set standards.

Under Dangerous ID, Napolitano can unilaterally expand required information on driver's licenses, potentially to include biometric information such as retinal scans, fingerprints, DNA information, and even Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology.

If international databases, RFID and biometric identification cards, and constant government surveillance are as alarming to you as they are to me, I hope you’ll click here to sign Campaign for Liberty’s petition to stop REAL ID Redux and repeal Dangerous ID.

This is an important battle, and one we CAN win.

Just look at all the success stories in states that opted out of the Dangerous ID system.  In many cases, local C4L groups were instrumental in passing that legislation.

If REAL ID Redux passes, the new federal “concessions” may sucker many states into compliance.

That’s why it is so important that we defeat this reincarnation of Dangerous ID at the federal level, and take advantage of this national conversation to repeal the original bill.

So please, sign the petition urging your Senators and Representative to stop this so-called “PASS ID” and finally repeal the original Dangerous ID legislation.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/campaigns/stop-real-id-lite.php

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: Ferris]
    #10834038 -

tinfoil hat all you want, you seem to be painfully unaware of what your own party is up to.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10834111 -

Quote:
Real ID, which passed in 2005, establishes a de facto National Identification System, and opens the doors for Federal biometric tracking of every American citizen.


That's utter bullshit.  If you've got a problem with a specific provision of the bill, criticize it, but it is what it is.  Most of the provisions are already in place on a state level, it just creates database sharing of databases that already exist.

:tinfoil:


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Discuss Politics

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10834112 -

DropScience said:
tinfoil hat all you want, you seem to be painfully unaware of what your own party is up to.


You're sheep, baaaaah.


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Discuss Politics

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: Ferris]
    #10834160 -

to be fair I was not trying to elicit an off topic response, just be a smartass.

BTW, I get the same types of reactions, it is bullshit. Like I have to choose between two right-wing neo-conservative views as the end all and be all of political discourse. Now that's a self serving duality if I've ever seen one.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (08/10/09 04:38 PM)

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: Ferris]
    #10834554 -

Quote:
That's utter bullshit.  If you've got a problem with a specific provision of the bill, criticize it, but it is what it is.  Most of the provisions are already in place on a state level, it just creates database sharing of databases that already exist.


Lol ten minutes ago this was a conservative wildcard according to you! Now that I've shown you that the Obama administration is moving it along you want me to read you the bill? ha.. They call that shifting the burden of proof.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10834590 -

DropScience said:
Quote:
That's utter bullshit.  If you've got a problem with a specific provision of the bill, criticize it, but it is what it is.  Most of the provisions are already in place on a state level, it just creates database sharing of databases that already exist.


Lol ten minutes ago this was a conservative wildcard according to you! Now that I've shown you that the Obama administration is moving it along you want me to read you the bill? ha.. They call that shifting the burden of proof.


REAL ID is nothing like what I was talking about.  You're the one going to cesspools like Campaign for Liberty and lapping up their propaganda.  Read the bills for yourself man.

And again, tell me what provisions of REAL ID you have issue with.


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Discuss Politics

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10834596 -

You probably should read the bill, regardless of who is supposedly responsible for it.

Also, I never understood the CFR nonsense either.  I don't want to derail the thread, but frankly it's just silly.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10834716 -

DropScience said:
Quote:
That's utter bullshit.  If you've got a problem with a specific provision of the bill, criticize it, but it is what it is.  Most of the provisions are already in place on a state level, it just creates database sharing of databases that already exist.


Lol ten minutes ago this was a conservative wildcard according to you! Now that I've shown you that the Obama administration is moving it along you want me to read you the bill? ha.. They call that shifting the burden of proof.




uhhh, what?


You made claims.  You refrenced a law.  You've failed to show that your claims are supported by the law, and you've not even cited to the act or the code where someone should look to verify your claims.



How the hell is making a conclusory statement that "this xxx does yyy" sufficient to demonstrate your claim?  That is the claim.  You've not supported it at all besides your vague refrence to the entirity of the act, and your accusing him of shifting the burden of proof?


I'm sorry, but where exactly did you satisfy your burden?  What is the burden of your opponent and where does it arise from?


I cannot see how your naked claims are sufficient, nor how someone asking for refrence to a particular portion of the act bears some burden thereby.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: Redstorm]
    #10834992 -

Redstorm said:
You probably should read the bill, regardless of who is supposedly responsible for it.

Also, I never understood the CFR nonsense either.  I don't want to derail the thread, but frankly it's just silly.


lol you don't want to derail the thread, you just want call it silly and have that be that without say, even scratching the surface

I get it guys.. You want me to do all the work and read the dozens of books on the topic for you.. You want me to re-read the real ID act, outline and highlite it for you and spoon feed it all to you bit by bit. It's totally my responsiblity to back up every last bit because otherwise its just all nonsense and you have no responsibility to be concerned about any of it, its not like your country is being drowned in debt and your future being destroyed , its not like its your ass on the line.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: Redstorm]
    #10835023 -

Redstorm said:
You probably should read the bill, regardless of who is supposedly responsible for it.



You expect too much of him, we all know that not even the elected representatives voting on it will do that and they are actually receiving money for it.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10835026 -

Ok, you seem to be having some trouble with this...


You made a claim.  You have the burden of demonstrating that it is true.  You have not done that, and at best have vaguely referred to large documents or collections of documents "the real ID act" for example, without citing any particular portion of it nor even a secondary source that reliably backs you up.

Quote:
It's totally my responsiblity to back up every last bit



hmm, well clearly it is, I'm a bit confused here.  What bit have you backed up?  You imply you've backed up things but have come short of "every last bit", whereas I can't see that you have backed anything up.


This is pretty simple- you claim it you demonstrate it.  Morevoer, you seem to be using misleading language in shirking your burden, which is not making me think there's anything to your as-yet totally unsupported claims.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: DropScience]
    #10835235 -

DropScience said:
Redstorm said:
You probably should read the bill, regardless of who is supposedly responsible for it.

Also, I never understood the CFR nonsense either.  I don't want to derail the thread, but frankly it's just silly.


lol you don't want to derail the thread, you just want call it silly and have that be that without say, even scratching the surface

I get it guys.. You want me to do all the work and read the dozens of books on the topic for you.. You want me to re-read the real ID act, outline and highlite it for you and spoon feed it all to you bit by bit. It's totally my responsiblity to back up every last bit because otherwise its just all nonsense and you have no responsibility to be concerned about any of it, its not like your country is being drowned in debt and your future being destroyed , its not like its your ass on the line.


You make the claim, you back it up. That's how it works in the wonderful world in reality.

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Re: Ordering Pizza [Re: Phred]
    #10846643 -

Funny arguments on both sides.

While democrats and republicans have held office in this country for longer than any of us has lived as a central ego our rights have been degraded.

Under both parties. Yet both parties are being paid for by big business.

I remember the US government fucking up many things, as well as doing many things right when they get business to fuck off at the right times.

I also heard of some of the information collected by large corporations, specifically telecommunications, by sources who used to work in the field years ago. It was scary years ago, now I don't care. I will eat your kids if it comes down to my survival.

However, instead of fighting the government, maybe we should be ditching our cell phones and MVP cards?

Follow the money. Works on the black and the white market and information pays a lot.

Hasn't the ever-changing large business sector owned the near entirety of the government since the mid 1800's?




~Monk

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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