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Offlinetall dwarf
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why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate?
    #10806691 - 08/05/09 05:15 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

My question is as simple as it sounds.  We all know that dunking is to rehydrate the substrate after a flush of fruitbody production, but how is it that the process of dunking/soaking doesn't push the substrate past a healthy level of water capacity?  Shouldn't a substrate be completely waterlogged after a dunk.  If not, why isn't it?


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Invisiblefeelfunny
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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? [Re: tall dwarf]
    #10806717 - 08/05/09 05:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

if you dunk to long it will waterlog and break apart so DONT do it more than 24hours


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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? *DELETED* [Re: feelfunny]
    #10806750 - 08/05/09 05:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Project

Reason for deletion: Because RR answered the question



Edited by Project (08/05/09 05:25 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? [Re: Project] * 1
    #10806821 - 08/05/09 05:36 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Technically, the substrate doesn't soak up any water when you dunk.  The mycelium does, and that's why it takes 24 hours.  An uncolonized substrate would be fully hydrated in ten seconds or less if submerged.  Since the substrate has been fully colonized with mushroom mycelium, you have to hydrate the individual cells via osmosis, and that takes plenty of time.  Waterlogging happens when someone puts a cake or other bulk substrate directly on the perlite and the mycelium continues to absorb water until it's saturated.
RR


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Offlinetall dwarf
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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10807163 - 08/05/09 06:31 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

But that then means that a dunk could never truly waterlog a substrate on its own, as long as afterwards the substrate gets good FAE and is allowed to air out and not be kept in a state of perpetual rehydration. 

So what I'm saying (or asking) is, once the mycelium cells are fully rehydrated during a dunk, the block of substrate itself is already completely drenched/saturated.  As long as you let it dry out properly it will be ok.  And then waterlogging can occur when someone prevents their substrate from getting the proper moisture evaporation.

So then you can't really waterlog a substrate with a dunk alone, unless it starts falling apart.


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OfflineProject
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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10807173 - 08/05/09 06:33 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Technically, the substrate doesn't soak up any water when you dunk.  The mycelium does, and that's why it takes 24 hours.  An uncolonized substrate would be fully hydrated in ten seconds or less if submerged.  Since the substrate has been fully colonized with mushroom mycelium, you have to hydrate the individual cells via osmosis, and that takes plenty of time.  Waterlogging happens when someone puts a cake or other bulk substrate directly on the perlite and the mycelium continues to absorb water until it's saturated.
RR




Good info!  I love cramming all of your knowledge into my brain!  :thumbup:


Edited by Project (08/05/09 06:35 PM)


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Offlinetall dwarf
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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10816408 - 08/07/09 07:44 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Technically, the substrate doesn't soak up any water when you dunk.  The mycelium does, and that's why it takes 24 hours.

...you have to hydrate the individual cells via osmosis, and that takes plenty of time.




But most people dunk their bulk substrates for only 5 or 6 six hours, so how can they be effectively rehydrating the cells if up to 24 hours is required?  Isn't it the same mycelium with the same needs whether its bulk or cakes?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? [Re: tall dwarf]
    #10816428 - 08/07/09 07:54 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Because bulk substrates have a higher surface area to mass ratio, thus more exposure.  In addition, mycelium doesn't grow as dense on bulk substrates as it does on grains or cakes.
RR


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Offlinetall dwarf
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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10816456 - 08/07/09 08:07 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I don't quite understand but I take your word for it.  Thanks for quick reply.


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Invisibleprismism
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Re: why doesn't Dunking waterlog a substrate? [Re: tall dwarf]
    #10816565 - 08/07/09 08:47 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Golden_Student said:
But that then means that a dunk could never truly waterlog a substrate on its own, as long as afterwards the substrate gets good FAE and is allowed to air out and not be kept in a state of perpetual rehydration. 

So what I'm saying (or asking) is, once the mycelium cells are fully rehydrated during a dunk, the block of substrate itself is already completely drenched/saturated.  As long as you let it dry out properly it will be ok.  And then waterlogging can occur when someone prevents their substrate from getting the proper moisture evaporation.

So then you can't really waterlog a substrate with a dunk alone, unless it starts falling apart.




i am quite sure that if you left your cake being dunked for long enough it would turn into muck.
i one time left cakes dunking just 2 days and when i grabbed them they crumbled under their own weight. but keep in mind this was after 3 flushes so it wasnt a huge surprise.


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