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abetterlie
Dubstep.breakcore.explosion.soup



Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 298
Loc: on the internets
Last seen: 7 years, 20 days
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Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked.
#10804652 - 08/05/09 11:43 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/23111/
"The test takes less than 90 seconds and can detect drugs at concentrations measured in parts-per-billion using a single microliter of saliva. The sensor is capable of even greater sensitivity--it has been used to detect cardiac troponin, a commonly used indicator of heart attack, at concentrations 1,000 times lower."
scary stuff.
-------------------- "I'm gonna clear the air, with the metal that's known to divide the whole atmosphere, and I love to share, them bullets come dime a dozen I kept 2 so I could have spare."
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feelfunny
I am you




Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 8,747
Loc: South
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: abetterlie]
#10804819 - 08/05/09 12:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i don't think this is a bad thing. i think that 1 of the reasons it cant be legal is unlike alcohol they cant test if you are high when driving and not high last week and driving today.
-------------------- IF A CAT AND DOG CAN GET ALONG WHY CANT EVERYONE ELSE? If the sky is falling, don't look up! Feel Family Founder. me if you are tired of hearing, "Use the search function".
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legallyhomeless
mooch


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 4,051
Loc: EZRA for the Refuge
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: feelfunny]
#10805694 - 08/05/09 02:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ive been fighting a marijuana DUI now for over 16 months! They keep rescheduling it. I already have a civil rights attorney lined up waiting to sue the pants off the common wealth if they reschedule again. That would bring them over the allowed limit of right to a speedy trial thus violating my rights.
The cop says I was high and he found a half smoked blunt in my car.
Moron hands me the joint and tells me to put it in my pocket. I ate it  Didnt give them a blood test either. So basically its his word against mine but...
- He said my car was black and its white - He said I was a certain age at the time of the arrest but I was really 2 years older. This was after he looked at my state issued ID - I was first wrote up for possession but those charges were mysteriously dropped.
and with no blood they have ZERO evidence of anything. I'm going to make that cop look like a fucking idiot tomorrow morning in front of the judge. 
I wish I had time to type everything.
Basically... cops are morons and you and I can outsmart them all
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Ritual
Spore Collecter

Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 249
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: legallyhomeless]
#10806702 - 08/05/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have no problem with Law Enforcement enforcing DUI. I have seen alot of knuckleheads driving cars under the infuence that were putting other people at great risk.
Are they going to have allowable limits? Can they test for different concentrations? What if you did opiates the day before and you test positive that day? Theres a big difference then someone being impaired and under the influence. Like alchohol for example we have certain thresholds of alchohol content in your body that is allowed.
I think they will need to work that out before this becomes reasonable.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: legallyhomeless]
#10807453 - 08/05/09 07:24 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
legallyhomeless said: Moron hands me the joint and tells me to put it in my pocket. I ate it  Didnt give them a blood test either. So basically its his word against mine but...
lol, good job.
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Minstrel
Man of Science



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: legallyhomeless]
#10807903 - 08/05/09 08:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Shit man, that's pretty awesome. Let us know how it goes. I hope you win it.
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youbreakyoubuy
Monkey Mouth



Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 2,632
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: Minstrel]
#10808568 - 08/05/09 10:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Minstrel said: Shit man, that's pretty awesome. Let us know how it goes. I hope you win it. 
-------------------- Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: abetterlie]
#10809758 - 08/06/09 04:20 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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> Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked
Roadside drug testing... good news for those of us that don't like to risk their lives driving on the road with irresponsible drug users. I have no problem with people that use drugs, but irresponsible drug users, such as those that use drugs and then drive while intoxicated, are one of the main reasons why drugs remain illegal.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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abetterlie
Dubstep.breakcore.explosion.soup



Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 298
Loc: on the internets
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: Seuss]
#10810321 - 08/06/09 09:32 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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There are going to be serious problems of finding and setting minimums. I would be seriously concerned if I had to be worried about driving just because I was partying the night before, or the week before, depending on the substance.
-------------------- "I'm gonna clear the air, with the metal that's known to divide the whole atmosphere, and I love to share, them bullets come dime a dozen I kept 2 so I could have spare."
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: Seuss]
#10810747 - 08/06/09 11:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked
Roadside drug testing... good news for those of us that don't like to risk their lives driving on the road with irresponsible drug users. I have no problem with people that use drugs, but irresponsible drug users, such as those that use drugs and then drive while intoxicated, are one of the main reasons why drugs remain illegal.
i've driven over 40,000 miles in the last two years, all over the south, mid-west, and west; 95% of the interstate/highway driving was high on cannabis, and 90% of the town driving was high on cannabis.
i've never had an accident (thus far), and no speeding ticket since i was 16 (didn't even smoke then).
some of us are responsible driving stoned, and i often feel more comfortable and safe driving while "under the influence"
now i agree not everyone should, and there have been times where i've refused to drive because i know i'm too high. it's about knowing your limits. unfortunately there's no way to bring that factor into legislation
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall



Registered: 08/25/06
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: demiu5]
#10810779 - 08/06/09 11:25 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
demius said:
i've driven over 40,000 miles in the last two years, all over the south, mid-west, and west; 95% of the interstate/highway driving was high on cannabis, and 90% of the town driving was high on cannabis.
I drive with a hit or two in me about 90% of the time as well. No accidents, no tickets, no stops. Driving the SPEED LIMIT is what's important if you want to talk about safety.
But, there is a line. After an extended vaporizer session, I don't just run out and drive... I wait, just like I do after drinking a barleywine.
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cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: RoosterCogburn] 1
#10811228 - 08/06/09 12:52 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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The claim that you can drive whilst stoned is moot. Just like there are people who claim they can drive better when they've had a few drinks. The problem is there are a lot of people who probably cannot drive as safely when they are stoned as when they are sober.
But like you said, there is a line. Ideally, there should be a "limit" to how stoned you can be, but the idea of that is ridiculous. There is no test to tell how "stoned" a person is, everyone handles their shit different. If there is any hope of ever federally decriminalizing marijuana, it should not be permissible for people to drive under the influence of it, and for that, we need a test to tell if people have been using.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: cortex] 1
#10812193 - 08/06/09 03:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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> Ideally, there should be a "limit" to how stoned you can be
Personally, I believe "limits" should be done away with and replaced with filmed, standardized, road side tests. If you fail the road side test, even if you are only tired or taking prescription meds, you get a DUI (or equiv). If you blow a .3 but can still pass the road side test, then off you go.
Regardless, people that drive "stoned" that do get into accidents, even if they are not at fault, give the establishment ammunition to decry all drug users as irresponsible losers. Be responsible with your drug use and stay off the roads when under the influence.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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legallyhomeless
mooch


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 4,051
Loc: EZRA for the Refuge
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: Seuss]
#10812373 - 08/06/09 04:09 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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well I was found guilty. Im going to fight it further. Just goes to show its worth the money to just pay a lawyer rather then a free public defender.
There was NO evidence other then my pupils were dilated. Clearly sufficient ground for a conviction. 
$1000 fine 3 days in jail 1 year parole
-------------------- MY TRADE LIST!!! FULLY AUTOMATIC!! 12-Pot Multi Grow Hydroponic System for Trade.
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cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: Seuss]
#10812411 - 08/06/09 04:17 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Be responsible with your drug use and stay off the roads when under the influence.
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: Seuss]
#10812765 - 08/06/09 05:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Ideally, there should be a "limit" to how stoned you can be
Personally, I believe "limits" should be done away with and replaced with filmed, standardized, road side tests. If you fail the road side test, even if you are only tired or taking prescription meds, you get a DUI (or equiv). If you blow a .3 but can still pass the road side test, then off you go.
Regardless, people that drive "stoned" that do get into accidents, even if they are not at fault, give the establishment ammunition to decry all drug users as irresponsible losers. Be responsible with your drug use and stay off the roads when under the influence.
Yep, I totally agree with this and your previous test.
An alcoholic with a huge tolerance will be dangerous (going into DT's) if sober, and will be "sober" with a high BAC and yet no impairment.
I can be quite drunk at well under the legal limit, and I know people who aren't (so it appears) at quite high above the limit.
I think we should have a standard impairment test- ideally one with objective criteria for failure.
This way people can a) test themselves; b) not drive if they are impaired; c) not be convicted if they aren't impaired; d) not be convicted because they smoked a joint three days ago and such was detected;
I see no reason why tired driving, old people with crap sight and reaction times, and stoned driving should be treated at all differently as far as the offense (though the sentence may well be deservedly different).
Lets standardize this with real, relevant, and scientifically backed data, and stop injecting politics into what should be an objective determination of whether a person is criminally unfit to drive.
Does it really matter why they are unfit? Not so far as I can see- they should not be driving if they are impaired sufficiently.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: legallyhomeless]
#10812789 - 08/06/09 05:17 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
legallyhomeless said: well I was found guilty. Im going to fight it further. Just goes to show its worth the money to just pay a lawyer rather then a free public defender.
There was NO evidence other then my pupils were dilated. Clearly sufficient ground for a conviction. 
$1000 fine 3 days in jail 1 year parole
I'm almost certain you are incorrect and that there was indeed much more evidence- such as the way the officer said you looked, smelled, reacted, talked, stood, walked, et cet.
For whatever reason, people always seem to think that they need the drug to be convicted of drug possesion, or that they need lab results to be convicted of having so much drugs in your blood.
If the law punishes impairment by a controlled substance, then you can be convicted when they find such- regardless of the evidence. I'm guessing though, that the law was actually stricter than that... What was the actual offense and the defining elements? Impairment or just under the influence?
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist




Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: johnm214]
#10813348 - 08/06/09 06:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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The availability of road-side testing will only make things easier for people in some states. For example, in Nevada they can already forcibly blood test you for controlled substances basically at the officer's discretion. And they don't do that on the road-side--they arrest you for DUI off the bat, drag you to a hospital, extract blood, then throw your ass in jail until you post jail or go to court.
The limit for driving under the influence of marijuana in Nevada is 2ng/mL in blood and the supreme court of the state has ruled that there is no need to prove that this in any way indicates actual impairment. There have supposedly been cases of people smoking marijuana up to 4 days before the blood was drawn being convicted of DUI marijuana for having levels above this.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist




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Posts: 3,060
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: ChuangTzu]
#10813373 - 08/06/09 06:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Now that I actually read the article though....
I used to work for a small company that was developing technology very similar to this, but for medical diagnostics rather than law enforcement purposes.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Roadside drug testing... bad news for those of us who like to drive baked. [Re: ChuangTzu]
#10816108 - 08/07/09 04:42 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said: The availability of road-side testing will only make things easier for people in some states. For example, in Nevada they can already forcibly blood test you for controlled substances basically at the officer's discretion. And they don't do that on the road-side--they arrest you for DUI off the bat, drag you to a hospital, extract blood, then throw your ass in jail until you post jail or go to court.
The limit for driving under the influence of marijuana in Nevada is 2ng/mL in blood and the supreme court of the state has ruled that there is no need to prove that this in any way indicates actual impairment. There have supposedly been cases of people smoking marijuana up to 4 days before the blood was drawn being convicted of DUI marijuana for having levels above this.
Yep, in michigain its any amount of a controlled substance or metabolite/analogue (I forget which).
You can be completely sober, have no controlled substance in your body, and be guilty of DUI.
Not only don't they not have to prove impairment, they don't even have to prove that you had a physiologically active substance in your body. Its ridiculous.
In any case, the procedures you reference do indeed suck, but that's kind of a side issue. The problem is what shoudl be prohibited, and I think its clear that impairment shoudl be prohibited and that such should be defined objectively such that either reaction times, concentration, et cet are the deciding factors- barring obvious inability to pass the test if it were administered (unconciousness et cet)
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