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OfflineHypercube
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10784340 - 08/02/09 07:47 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

PDU said:
Organic tastes better alot of the time




I would have thought so, too...but last night on Penn and Teller they had taste tests of random people on the street. Something like 80% of them chose the regular fruits over the organic. When asked (before being told) why they liked it...they mostly said it was because it was organic.




The banana bit was golden.  Love that show.

Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Quote:

Qubit said:
Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Chemical fertilizers and pesticides will never ever compare to green compost, beneficial bacteria ad smart planting.




This is the blind faith that turns me off.  You dont know that, no study has ever shown that.  Blanket extreme statements like that are rarely true.  When people make such statements they loose credibility.




Your a moron, its not blind faith. I've seen it done both ways, shit i've done it both ways. Chemical fertilizers do not compare to billions and billions of beneficial bacteria its a fact, if you don't believe me grow 2 plants one with miracle grow and one with compost and Microbial teas. I've done it and the organic plants are not only better but they resist pest and disease way better. Why do you think they have to use so many pesticides on conventional produce? Because the plants are too weak and malnourished to defend themselves. Ontop of this most commercial fertilizers do not contain micronutrients so most conventional produce is seriously lacking in that department.


Maybe you should stop blindly bashing people for no reason, you clearly have never farmed or probably grow anything for that matter in your whole life. Until you do your opinion means very little




If you found a way to increase conventional crop production using microbes instead of fertilizers without it costing the farmer absurd amounts of money, you would already be stinking rich.  Are these methods of production really feasible at a large scale?


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Hypercube]
    #10784367 - 08/02/09 07:58 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Hypercube said:


  Are these methods of production really feasible at a large scale?




What do you think people did before chemical fertilizers and pesticides existed?(both of which are relatively new). How could i make money on somthing thats already free? Organic produce might take slightly longer to produce, which it really doesn't once you have your system down, but it doesn't leave the land a barren wasteland or wash highly toxic neurotoxins into our water supply. Conventional produce is good for one thing, mass mono cropping which is stupid. Permaculture and sustainability are gonna be the future, we can only keep up these unsustainable habits for so long


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10784595 - 08/02/09 09:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)



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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Organic Food [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10785370 - 08/02/09 12:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What do you think people did before chemical fertilizers and pesticides existed?




They lived short brutal lives where starvation was always one season away if crops failed.

Another thing I notice here is the assumption that organic = sustainability (and the inference that nonorganic = unsustainable).  More baseless blanket statements...  If a farming method is unsustainable lets debate that in its own right - organic has nothing to do with it.


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Organic Food [Re: DieCommie]
    #10785444 - 08/02/09 12:17 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

They lived short brutal lives where starvation was always one season away if crops failed.




Not if they lived in tropical climates like our species is meant too.

Conventional farming methods are unsustainable, they erode the land, pollute it with dangerous chemicals and cause new strains of viruses to manifest. There are only three methods of farming organic, conventional and a mixture of the two. Organic practices that focus on composting, crop rotations and soil health are without a doubt as sustainable as it gets. If you read the articles i posted you would also find out they are more productive and cost effective then conventional farming

Let me just take a wild guess, You've never grown anything in your life?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Organic Food [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10785539 - 08/02/09 12:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Not if they lived in tropical climates like our species is meant too.




Our species isnt meant to do anything, this is just more of your faith.  (which I can tolerate in others but I utterly reject faith in my own belief system)





Quote:

Let me just take a wild guess, You've never grown anything in your life?




You couldnt be more wrong.  One side of my family are farmers and avid gardeners and I very much enjoy all aspects of it.  (not that its relevant or necessary to have an opinion on this topic)


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Organic Food [Re: DieCommie]
    #10785810 - 08/02/09 01:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Qubit said:
Quote:

Not if they lived in tropical climates like our species is meant too.




Our species isnt meant to do anything, this is just more of your faith.  (which I can tolerate in others but I utterly reject faith in my own belief system)





Its not faith, its science. Humans are tropical primates, look it up


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10786032 - 08/02/09 02:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Humans are adaptive creatures. They aren't "meant" to be anywhere. Regardless of your absurd assertions, the Cradle of Civilization is hardly tropical.


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Redstorm]
    #10786092 - 08/02/09 02:18 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Humans are adaptive creatures. They aren't "meant" to be anywhere. Regardless of your absurd assertions, the Cradle of Civilization is hardly tropical.




Humans evolved from apes in the eastern african region, this region used to be tropical/sub-tropical. Am i missing something? No doubt humans are adaptive creatures, still does not change the fact we are naked tropical primates


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10786120 - 08/02/09 02:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Apes are not people. Where apes lived is hardly relevant to some absurd value-laden statement about where people are "supposed" to live. Human should live where they can prosper.


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Redstorm]
    #10786412 - 08/02/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

There was a european study a few years back that took two identical farms side by side and one was organic and one conventional.  They found more antioxidants in the organic produce and especially, milk!

Organic milk had 60% more antioxidants than its conventional counterpart.

And yes, organic milk has a much nicer taste than conventional.  But raw milk would be the best.


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"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Cannashroom]
    #10786659 - 08/02/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Also, lots of "Organic" foods in the US and other places aren't really organic in the best sense.

A true organic farm is very diverse, and uses good methods to promote healthy soil.  The organic regulations say nothing about biodiversity on farms, which is a big part of a true return to sustainable living and farming.

The mineral content of food is related to the soil.  Good organic practices will help restore the soil and it will have more minerals, but much of the corporate factory farm "organic" foods are grown on depleted soil.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Cannashroom]
    #10791918 - 08/03/09 12:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

How does one investigate the "organic-ness" and farming methods used to grow their food?

Lets use hempoilcanada.com and my local farmers market as examples, what sorts of questions would i ask, to find out if they use "sustainable" farming practices.


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Organic Food [Re: PDU]
    #10794129 - 08/03/09 06:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PDU said:
How does one investigate the "organic-ness" and farming methods used to grow their food?

Lets use hempoilcanada.com and my local farmers market as examples, what sorts of questions would i ask, to find out if they use "sustainable" farming practices.




The first question you should ask if there No Spray, this means they don't use any sort of pesticide or herbicide. Other good questions include types of fertilizer they use, where there water comes from and how big the farm is


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InvisibleArden
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Registered: 09/01/08
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Silversoul]
    #10814099 - 08/06/09 08:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Organic.

In my opinion it is a "rebellious" way for otherwise normal people to express their discontent with modern industrial society and all of its ghastly features, while simultaneously obtaining a shopper's high.

It's also a marketing ploy for a plethora of companies who are beginning to realize there are a lot of pretentious and rich fucks who are dying to drop some green to make the world more "green".

It gives a sense of health and freedom in your purchase. It's half pseudo-science, half consumerism, half trend.

I like this:

"The problem with organic produce is that there’s nothing right with it, either.

The word organic, literally, simply means carbon-based, a definition that would encompass every crop imaginable, up to and including those grown in Halliburton-branded fields of nuclear waste."

Article Link: http://www.the-peak.ca/article/4403



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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Arden]
    #10819642 - 08/07/09 07:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Arden said:
Organic.

It's half pseudo-science, half consumerism, half trend.





That's some interesting math you have.

I like the people here that think eating chemicals is ok for their bodies. Give leaves more delicious food for the rest of us


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InvisibleArden
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Re: Organic Food [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #10819738 - 08/07/09 07:46 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

That's some interesting math you have.





Math involves operators, my division was purely explanatory. I was using language to make a statement. But would it change my point if I had used 1/3? No.

Quote:

I like the people here that think eating chemicals is ok for their bodies.




Putting dangerous chemicals into your bodily is obviously unhealthy, but:

The opposite of Organic™® food is not chemical food.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Organic Food [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #10822720 - 08/08/09 01:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

legallyhomeless said:
I like the people here that think eating chemicals is ok for their bodies.




I like how people on a drug message board speak ill of chemicals.  I dont think you even know what a chemical is...


Making gross generalizations about 'chemicals' betrays your ignorance.  If there is a specific chemical you have an issue with then lets discuss its merits and pitfalls.  Assuming all man made chemicals are bad and all 'nature' made chemicals are good is blind faith and part of the problem.


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InvisibleArden
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Re: Organic Food [Re: DieCommie]
    #10823478 - 08/08/09 03:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If there is a specific chemical you have an issue with then lets discuss its merits and pitfalls.  Assuming all man made chemicals are bad and all 'nature' made chemicals are good is blind faith and part of the problem.




Good point.


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InvisiblePoC
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Re: Organic Food [Re: Arden]
    #10827852 - 08/09/09 01:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Not only are we contaminating groundwater, soils, and foods with petrochemicals, but the only reason it is "cheap" is because conventional industrial food production is highly subsidized by the government.  Those farmers are just scraping by, too, since they need to buy all those petrochemicals for pesticide, herbicide, and fertilizer, genetically modified seed they can't save for themselves, and the newest machines that get marketed to them.

Conventional farming also undercuts foreign food marts because the government spends massive amounts in farm subsidies to lower our cost of produce.  That means farmers who used to get by in other countries can't afford to keep growing food and get put out of business.  It also means our unlabeled, genetically modified foods end up getting planted and mixing genetics with historically land-race varieties of food crops.

Meat is a whole separate ballpark, too.  Not only are there hormones, antibiotics, cruel, festering conditions, severe pollution via methane gas and excrement, but the cows usually eat corn which they do not naturally eat.  Cows don't need antibiotics and hormones to survive - it's only because we pen them up so close and in such squalid conditions that disease spreads.  Not even a blade of grass survives where most of our meat comes from - the cow's natural diet.  There is a definite difference in taste and texture between a grass-fed and corn-fed cow.  Americans demand meat like it's somehow their birthright akin to freedom of speech and the right to bear arms.  It's absolutely heinous that our food comes from concentration camps that the public doesn't see, let alone understand, and all so that even poor people eat like kings at McDonalds where they serve cheap, subsidized, genetically modified meat that is raised on cheap, subsidized, genetically modified corn.  Not only is the meat made of corn (part of the "meat" is also made up of processed corn products like corn syrup), but the sodas are made of corn and the fries are cooked in corn. 

...I could keep going on but I'd rather just say Penn and Teller are ridiculous and not at all an authority on anything.  All they know how to do is complain.  Conventional farming is not sustainable and cannot stand the test of time - they rely almost entirely on petrochemicals.  It has been less than a century since our conventional farming system arose, so once there's no more cheap oil, what should the farmers do?  Organic farming is the only sustainable way to grow our food and we need people to remember how to grow food the natural way.


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