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OfflineCDub
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Sclerotia Substrate
    #10781120 - 08/01/09 04:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

WBS is best used when pre-rinsed and soaked and/or simmered so that the moisture content is right BEFORE put into jars for sterilization

all the Sclerotia substrate formulas show the old way of pre-mixing water and substrate then sticking in the PC for sterilization

my question is if Brown Rice(substrate) is cooked to the right moisture content then put in the PC for sterilization will the moisture content be thrown off during the PC process(rice turned into mush) or will it still be primo or should the old formula of water/substrate still be used prior to PC to combat the possibilty of the mushy rice??

was planning on working out some cooking time/water amount/rice amount formula for that substrate and was wondering if this would be a waste of time

thanks for any opinions, advise or experiences with substrate formulas for sclerotia formation


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Edited by CDub (08/01/09 05:39 PM)

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OfflineCDub
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #10782887 - 08/01/09 10:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

1. boiled 400ml water in a pot with lid on. added 200ml Brown whole rice. reduced to low heat and simmered 40 minutes. made 800ml of substrate material

2. made a quart jar of 300ml rice and 400ml water

3. PC'd both at 15psi for 60 minutes

Results:
1. pre made Rice looked exactly like it did in the jar from the outside as it did going in(not overly wet or dry).  was shakeable but still had small marble sized balls of rice that stayed clumped but overall fluffed up nice and airy.

2. jar of mixed water and rice looked very wet and soggy with built up moisture on the bottom 1/3 of the jar.  substrate filled the quart jar roughly about 2/3 full after PC. substrate was a solid mass after PC and had to be dug out of jar with multiple fork stabbings and was extremely rubber like in texture

Conclusion:
1. seemed like this was a great way to prepare the substrate mix. would the  moisture content hold up with the needs of the long incubation period of Sclerotia formation?

2. this did not seem like the most suitable way to prepare the Rice substrate. does the solid mass of rice with high moisture content provide a more suitable medium for Sclerotia formation?

thanks for your attention to these inquires


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #10782900 - 08/01/09 10:03 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I would not use rice for sclerotia.

Too mushy and thick.

Where'd you get the idea?


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OfflineCDub
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: Rose]
    #10782932 - 08/01/09 10:09 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

thought the same thing about mushy and thick...but the cooked per bag instuctions and PC'd Rice came out great, not mushy and thick at all, could shake up the jar and had great moisture content(very tender)

whole brown rice was reported a good producer of sclerotia in a couple of reports. gonna take me some time to get the exact notes though

your threads have been great reads Cervantes!!! will get you those reports asap


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #10782959 - 08/01/09 10:14 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I recall a couple posts about people using brown rice... but not the specifics.

Good luck.


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OfflineCDub
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: Rose]
    #10783025 - 08/01/09 10:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

was trying to find a Stamets article about how Brown Rice in, at the time study, was the best producer of Sclerotia

another study from an article by a website talking about the in's and out's of Sclerotia found a 50/50 mix of RGS/BR to be the best producer

and the basic Sclerotia grow guide here at the Shroomery is where the mix of water/BR was used(300ml(BR) with 400ml(water) then PC'd for test jar #2

9er has a tek about cooking rice per bag instruction which was used for the #1 test jar


may still go with RGS but BR is such a nutritious substrate that is edible in its own right that to pair it with Sclerotia seemed proper as long as the mushiness could be avoided

its hard to keep all the info straigt after looking and reading so much over the last couple of weeks though


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Edited by CDub (08/01/09 10:29 PM)

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #10783037 - 08/01/09 10:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I'd definitely try it in bags, where I could kneed the substrate through the bag w/ my hands. In a jar however, I like the ability to shake.


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OfflineCDub
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: Rose]
    #10784146 - 08/02/09 05:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

thread about RGS or BR as substrate:here

Edited by CDub (08/02/09 08:32 AM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #10784514 - 08/02/09 08:55 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I've had the largest sclerotia form in the shortest amount of time from rye berries over rye grass seed.  I tried brown rice several times, but could never get the starch out and it was always stuck together, under-performing  the rye every time.
RR


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OfflineCDub
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10785361 - 08/02/09 12:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

didn't even think about rinsing off the starches on the BR after cooking for perfect moisture content and then drying in a strainer like WBS before going in the PC. that may help eliminate that last amount of small clumping in the BR jars experienced in test jar#1 along with the addition of Gypsum added to the simmer water

will post results later today after a trial run on a test jar

don't have access to rye berries at the moment but can't wait to get some after your results with sclerotia formation


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InvisibleDallasP
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #10786505 - 08/02/09 03:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Five shrooms for you man! It's nice to see some actually apply problem solving skills to answer their own question instead of wanting to be fed the answers by other people who actually put time and effort into finding out.

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OfflineCDub
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: DallasP]
    #10790851 - 08/03/09 07:43 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DallasP said:
Five shrooms for you man! It's nice to see some actually apply problem solving skills to answer their own question instead of wanting to be fed the answers by other people who actually put time and effort into finding out.





Thanks DallasP!



test jar of rincing/straining the rice after cooking and then putting into the PC did not go so well.  the jar was aloud to cool overnight and was a semi-solid clump in the morning. think the BR was still to wet on the outside from the rincing, the 30 minute strain was not long enough and was covered with saran wrap while it was straining so more air will be available this time and BR will not be loaded into jar without looking dry on the outside after rinsing/straining.

will try agiain with more test jars and tweak the rinse/strain time and procedure mishap along with shaking the jar while its still hot just after PC releases all pressure. but in past experience, if the WBS was prepared correctly the need to shake HOT jars was eliminated, am shooting for this concistency in the BR as well.


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OfflineCDub
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: Rose]
    #10793061 - 08/03/09 03:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
I recall a couple posts about people using brown rice... but not the specifics.

Good luck.





The dry weights of the slightly blueing sclerotia of Psilocybe mexicana varied significantly during cultivation on rye grass seed/water. It seems that the tendency to lose its moisture is the reason for such a variation.

In addition, the cultivation on soft rice grain/water also soon fromed sclerotia after only 2 weeks. It was found that total darkness is not necessary for the formation of sclerotia on this substrate. Incubation of Psilocybe mexicana in diffuse daylight but without direct sunlight also promote this vegetative form.

Sclerotia formation on rice grain (100g)/water after 2 months is 15-20 grams dry weight. The alkaloidal levels obtained from these sclerotia were relatively high but varied even in the same batch (Table 1). Larger sclerotia contained more psilocin than smaller agglomerations. It seems that during the growing process of the sclerotia a signficant enzymatic decomposition of psilocybin to psilocin (BOCKS, 1968) occured (Table 1). In own investigation the same reaction was found in old fruit bodies of Psilocybe cubensis (EARLE) SING. (GARTZ, 1989). Only a few sclerotia were obtained on rye grain/water mixture after prolonged incubation (up to 12 weeks). It seems that the substrate based on soft rice grain was the best to promote a regular formation of sclerotia in Psilocybe mexicana. STAMETS & CHILTON (1983)


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OfflineCDub
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #10808914 - 08/05/09 11:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

rice is a pain in the ass to cook to perfection

been going through bag after bag trying to get the grains just right and just when it seemed a small batch(qt jar worth) was just right, it failed miserably in a large batch (7qt batch)

still have a few other methods that will be tried later today but all I've learned so far is the wrong ways to do it

feel very close to getting BR just right but giving up on this substrate for sclerotia is just around the corner as well


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InvisibleDallasP
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #10812606 - 08/06/09 04:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well, it's generally better to mix in small batches anyway. Have you tried just adding a quart worth to the mix, or did you just go straight from the small batch to the large batch?

It's possible adding the larger amount cools the water more quickly, and that could have something to do with it.

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Offlinestefan
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12602553 - 05/21/10 05:54 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I've had the largest sclerotia form in the shortest amount of time from rye berries over rye grass seed. 



so rye is a good substrate for growing sclerotia? good to know that:)

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OfflineHow
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: CDub]
    #24907439 - 01/12/18 09:05 AM (7 years, 5 days ago)

Late to the game but-- here's how to get perfect brown rice every time. Comes from recent concerns about arsenic contamination in rice and this is also the way to greatly reduce that.

Boil rice as usual but in large excess of water. Fish a few grains out with spoon to test for doneness. When just right, pour into large colander and rinse with cool water to stop the cooking process. This way you wash out in the cooking, a lot of any heavy metal contaminants and in the rinse, any remaining excess starch.

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OfflineFascistbullyboy
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Re: Sclerotia Substrate [Re: How]
    #24907469 - 01/12/18 09:19 AM (7 years, 5 days ago)

7 years old

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