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Mo0se
Stranger

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 129
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: pickboy87]
#10779414 - 08/01/09 10:52 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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pickboy87 said: *Do you know of one place in nature where cubes fruit naturally that does not have a difference between daytime and nighttime temperatures? I've read ever since 1985 that 86F is best, usually because of somebody simply repeating what they've read somewhere, then somebody repeats that, and so on and so on. Now, over 20 years later, they're still repeating it, and it's still wrong. In my grow room, the day and night temperatures fluctuate as much as 20F. When I say normal room temperature that means 72F to 78F. There is zero increase in rate of growth of cubensis above 80F, and mushroom mycelium often stalls out and bacteria is encouraged in warm anaerobic environments, such as is found in the bottom of non-vented tubs commonly used as 'incubators'. COLONIZATION
Thanks dude ... good to know for the future. Generally my temperatures have been around 80 degrees, but like the paragraph explains I've always read around 85-86 was ok.
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wonderwhy
Stranger
Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 23
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: newtogrowing]
#10784784 - 08/02/09 10:08 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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newtogrowing said:
Quote:
wonderwhy said: 2 months ago, I injected Penis Envy (Psilocybe Cubensis) spores into one of the grow bags sold here:
http://www.themadseason.com/growbags.asp
Is that a good site, are there pre loaded bags any good or is it better to make your own?
It was really easy to set up. All I had to do was wipe the needle and injection site with alcohol and then inoculate. But as I found out in this thread, the directions on their website are incomplete. So it's a good site as long as you don't follow their directions, lol.
Thank you everyone for your help. I should've come here sooner. Hopefully now that I crumbled up the substrate this will work. I'll keep it at room temperature since that's what the consensus seems to be. I will have a camera soon so I'll take pictures and post them if the shrooms grow.
Edited by wonderwhy (08/02/09 11:49 AM)
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Citric


Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 4,490
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: veda_sticks]
#10785594 - 08/02/09 12:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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outdated information. those temps are too high. please stop spreading this misinformation.
You know, I have seen this posted over and over that the 86 degree mark was proven false. However, I have never once seen a link or actual text written to prove it was.
I have always incubated my jars and have never had any issue. My jars colonize in a weeks time from multispore inoculation.
AFAIK, the only dismissal of the 86 degree temp by stamets did not even cover cubensis.
-------------------- Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash: I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers
Hyphae: Yes "Loss of moisture from the substrate" is not a casing trigger.
My final Grow!
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 1,865
Loc: South
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: Citric]
#10785610 - 08/02/09 12:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Me too. We always incubate and have had many successful grows.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
Feel Family Founder.
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nastos
secret secretions




Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 7,371
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: feelingfunny]
#10785719 - 08/02/09 01:07 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah its almost impossible for me to keep my jars below 83 degrees and i havent had a contam yet.. maybe 75-80 is "ideal" for colinizing but just not possible for some places in the summer... my jars have been colonizing in 81-86 and the myc is vigarous as ever..
if your jars are getting bacterial contams i would first be worried about how clean the enviroment is before blaming it on the temp. contams shouldnt be allowed to enter your jars in the first place....
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Edited by nastos (08/02/09 01:09 PM)
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 1,865
Loc: South
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: nastos]
#10785730 - 08/02/09 01:10 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Agreed. I live in the South and it is FUCKING HOT. I can't get my temp below 75 no matter what I do. But like I said, been growing just fine.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
Feel Family Founder.
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nastos
secret secretions




Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 7,371
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: feelingfunny]
#10785750 - 08/02/09 01:15 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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even if i run the ac all day i cant get my grow room below 81...
not to mention if you go to the horse back riding place down the road the cubes continue to pop up in weather upwards of 90 degrees here so that should tell you something cubes are tropical so i dont see why 85-86 wouldnt work as long as your not allowing contams to enter the situation...
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ArcanePerception
The only rule isthe golden rule



Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 435
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: Citric]
#10785776 - 08/02/09 01:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Citric said:
Quote:
outdated information. those temps are too high. please stop spreading this misinformation.
You know, I have seen this posted over and over that the 86 degree mark was proven false. However, I have never once seen a link or actual text written to prove it was.
I have always incubated my jars and have never had any issue. My jars colonize in a weeks time from multispore inoculation.
AFAIK, the only dismissal of the 86 degree temp by stamets did not even cover cubensis.
Its not really that the number is wrong it is just that in doesnt take into account the heat the myc produces naturally I think.
-------------------- Oh, welcome to this world of fools
Of pink champagne and swimming pools
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nastos
secret secretions




Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 7,371
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
ArcanePerception said:
Quote:
Citric said:
Quote:
outdated information. those temps are too high. please stop spreading this misinformation.
You know, I have seen this posted over and over that the 86 degree mark was proven false. However, I have never once seen a link or actual text written to prove it was.
I have always incubated my jars and have never had any issue. My jars colonize in a weeks time from multispore inoculation.
AFAIK, the only dismissal of the 86 degree temp by stamets did not even cover cubensis.
Its not really that the number is wrong it is just that in doesnt take into account the heat the myc produces naturally I think.
this is true the internal temp of your jars is probably 2-3 degrees hotter than your ambient temp but still
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wygram
Myconaut

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 573
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: nastos]
#10785854 - 08/02/09 01:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Citric said: I have never once seen a link or actual text written to prove it was.
Really? Nothing, never?
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: 85F makes the mycelium weaker and more prone to infection with bacteria which is favored at high temps. Black pin mold is also a common contaminant when excessive heat is used during 'incubation'.
I've tried to duplicate that test on agar stamets refers to in his book at various temperatures, and by no means is 86F optimal, even for petri dishes. There is zero increase in growth beyond 78F, and growth slows down at 84F and above, falling off rapidly around 90F.
PF jars can colonize well in two to three weeks at 75F. Mine are done in two weeks. How many posts per week do we see where people have had jars in the incubator for a month at 86F and they're still not colonized? Something else is wrong. Just use room temperature and you'll have far less problems with bacteria and other contaminants, not to mention your jars won't dry out. If you're comfortable in the room with a t-shirt on, your jars will be comfortable as well. RR
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: 72F is fine. Commercial spawn labs incubate at 68F, and their living depends on getting the best success rate possible. It's always warmer inside the jars than outside, and mycelium growth slows down at 83F and above. Note that I'm referring to mycelium temperature, not air temperature. RR
and
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nastos said: not to mention if you go to the horse back riding place down the road the cubes continue to pop up in weather upwards of 90 degrees here so that should tell you something cubes are tropical so i dont see why 85-86 wouldnt work as long as your not allowing contams to enter the situation...
You can not compare outdoor to sterile indoor cultivation. Outdoors bacteria that thrive in hot temperatures are kept in check by other bacteria and organisms. Indoors where we sterilize the substrate a bacterial contamination has no natural competition and can run rampant.
-------------------- Changing your mind is one of the best ways of finding out whether or not you still have one.
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Stealthgrower
n00b Pwner



Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 622
Last seen: 6 months, 7 days
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: wygram]
#10785886 - 08/02/09 01:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
wygram said:
You can not compare outdoor to sterile indoor cultivation. Outdoors bacteria that thrive in hot temperatures are kept in check by other bacteria and organisms. Indoors where we sterilize the substrate a bacterial contamination has no natural competition and can run rampant.
-------------------- Infea said:
You ever seen that movie Constantine. Well they pass into hell several times. In hell there are melting human bodies, in your tub are melting mushroom bodies. Your tub had passed into mushroom hell.
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nastos
secret secretions




Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 7,371
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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well ok then when i throw a cake out and it starts to fruit ill remember that... we are talking temperature here not the diff between indoor and outdoor
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newtogrowing
Mr. Green smiles



Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 577
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: nastos]
#10785962 - 08/02/09 01:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Jeeze all the hostility, it's just voice of opinion lol
-------------------- [gradient:#FF0A0A,#03FF18]
Got to try to get results, got to improve that to have success, have to be successful to work on perfection
Pf Tek is the way to go, it's what I plan on sticking to, I fully support and suggest Pf Tek for everyone new or not, it's awesome it has results and is easy to follow.
[gradient:#FF0A0A,#05FF05]FREAK OF THA FAMILY[/gradient]
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nastos
secret secretions




Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 7,371
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: newtogrowing]
#10785986 - 08/02/09 01:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah all im saying is it gets hot as fuck here and i have not had a single contam... not saying that any of the information provided is wrong just throwing in my 2 cents on my experience incubating between 80-86 and having jars fully colonize in less than 2 weeks
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wygram
Myconaut

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 573
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: nastos]
#10786025 - 08/02/09 02:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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nastos said: well ok then when i throw a cake out and it starts to fruit ill remember that... we are talking temperature here not the diff between indoor and outdoor
You were using outdoor cultivation as an example of why those principles could work indoors and I understand what you were saying, just forgot to reference that in my answer. Just because mycelium can grow in hot temperatures this my no means it's optimal. Kids all over the world live in starving conditions, yet they continue to grow, but remain stunted and underdeveloped for the rest of their lives. Why do you AC or heat your home? Because too hot or too cold isn't the best environment? Living things find ways to survive in environments that are in no way optimal, but if you're going to be cultivating mushrooms why wouldn't you give them the best so they can thrive and not just what they can survive in.
Quote:
nastos said: yeah all im saying is it gets hot as fuck here and i have not had a single contam... not saying that any of the information provided is wrong just throwing in my 2 cents on my experience incubating between 80-86 and having jars fully colonize in less than 2 weeks
That's awesome and means you probably have pretty good sterile technique. However, for people having problems especially with bacterial contamination, keeping a lower temperature (or not raising it through incubation) could be the solution.
-------------------- Changing your mind is one of the best ways of finding out whether or not you still have one.
Edited by wygram (08/02/09 02:10 PM)
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Stealthgrower
n00b Pwner



Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 622
Last seen: 6 months, 7 days
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: nastos]
#10786132 - 08/02/09 02:26 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nastos said: yeah all im saying is it gets hot as fuck here and i have not had a single contam... not saying that any of the information provided is wrong just throwing in my 2 cents on my experience incubating between 80-86 and having jars fully colonize in less than 2 weeks
I live in GA. I just harvested an 80g cube with a cap the diameter of a CD from a casing I tossed last week and it hasn't dipped below 80 here at night and been about 90-95 during the day. There's more to it than temps. That's all I'm saying. Never got an 80g cube inside. ever. My guess it's the combination of constant FAE, plus the good rain we've been having, plus the balance of bacteria and mold keeping each other in check outside. I have noticed competitor molds in my outdoor patches, but them and the myc don't seem to mind or bother each other. Nature is pretty cool.
-------------------- Infea said:
You ever seen that movie Constantine. Well they pass into hell several times. In hell there are melting human bodies, in your tub are melting mushroom bodies. Your tub had passed into mushroom hell.
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ArcanePerception
The only rule isthe golden rule



Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 435
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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thats for the info wygram
-------------------- Oh, welcome to this world of fools
Of pink champagne and swimming pools
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Citric


Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 4,490
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: wygram]
#10787409 - 08/02/09 06:05 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
wygram said:
Quote:
Citric said: I have never once seen a link or actual text written to prove it was.
Really? Nothing, never?
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: 85F makes the mycelium weaker and more prone to infection with bacteria which is favored at high temps. Black pin mold is also a common contaminant when excessive heat is used during 'incubation'.
I've tried to duplicate that test on agar stamets refers to in his book at various temperatures, and by no means is 86F optimal, even for petri dishes. There is zero increase in growth beyond 78F, and growth slows down at 84F and above, falling off rapidly around 90F.
PF jars can colonize well in two to three weeks at 75F. Mine are done in two weeks. How many posts per week do we see where people have had jars in the incubator for a month at 86F and they're still not colonized? Something else is wrong. Just use room temperature and you'll have far less problems with bacteria and other contaminants, not to mention your jars won't dry out. If you're comfortable in the room with a t-shirt on, your jars will be comfortable as well. RR
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: 72F is fine. Commercial spawn labs incubate at 68F, and their living depends on getting the best success rate possible. It's always warmer inside the jars than outside, and mycelium growth slows down at 83F and above. Note that I'm referring to mycelium temperature, not air temperature. RR
and
Quote:
nastos said: not to mention if you go to the horse back riding place down the road the cubes continue to pop up in weather upwards of 90 degrees here so that should tell you something cubes are tropical so i dont see why 85-86 wouldnt work as long as your not allowing contams to enter the situation...
You can not compare outdoor to sterile indoor cultivation. Outdoors bacteria that thrive in hot temperatures are kept in check by other bacteria and organisms. Indoors where we sterilize the substrate a bacterial contamination has no natural competition and can run rampant.
Yes, I know RR has said the text written years ago was retracted or whatever. However, I have never seen that statement is what I mean.
Secondly, the link referring to commercial spawn labs, as I said in my first post regarding this subject, the dismiss of 86F was never on Cubes, but on Gourmet / Medicinal mushrooms. Please show me where it states this for Cubes other then RR saying through his test.
Because through my test, and many others of the mycology world, I have seen vast speed increase above 80.
Not only that, since I have been back to these boards I notice a lot more people colonizing in light. I also notice there are more and more cases of people having invitro pinning as well.
Edit: I am not saying RR does not know his shit, or is wrong. I am also not saying he is right. RR can out grow most people on this board without attempt, and does provide a lot of help. I however think some of his methods are very extreme and things are made out to be more complicated then they actually are.
Paul Stamets himself said when it comes to the world of Mycology, David Aurora is boss(Not in those words).
I'd like to see where this was stated that 86F was proven wrong is all.
-------------------- Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash: I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers
Hyphae: Yes "Loss of moisture from the substrate" is not a casing trigger.
My final Grow!
Edited by Citric (08/02/09 06:18 PM)
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 7 days, 21 hours
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: wonderwhy]
#10787515 - 08/02/09 06:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
wonderwhy said: 2 months ago, I injected Penis Envy (Psilocybe Cubensis) spores into one of the grow bags sold here:
http://www.themadseason.com/growbags.asp
I followed all the directions on the site. The substrate was supposed to be 90-100% covered with mycelium within a month, but it almost stopped spreading after 2 weeks when it was only about 30% covered. By 5 weeks, it was still only about 40% covered, so I skipped to the next step which was to expose the substrate to indirect sunlight. Pinning was supposed to start about a week later. A few weeks went by and nothing happened. So i put them in direct sunlight which wasn't in the directions, but I was desperate. A week went by, and here I am. The mycelium kept growing slowly in the light and by now covers about 80% of the substrate, but still no mushroom growth. What should I try next? Or will the shrooms never grow?
You should see pins a week or two after full colonization. Your bag could probably use a dunk and/or roll after your first flush.
The info you've been given in this thread is sound.
The cakes needed to be crumbled and no need to keep 'em in the sun.
Incubators are fine, they just are not needed, they cost $$$ you don't need to spend, and 1 in 3 n00bs fucks their incubator up.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Citric


Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 4,490
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Re: Why aren't my shrooms growing? [Re: Rose]
#10787544 - 08/02/09 06:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
wonderwhy said: 2 months ago, I injected Penis Envy (Psilocybe Cubensis) spores into one of the grow bags sold here:
http://www.themadseason.com/growbags.asp
I followed all the directions on the site. The substrate was supposed to be 90-100% covered with mycelium within a month, but it almost stopped spreading after 2 weeks when it was only about 30% covered. By 5 weeks, it was still only about 40% covered, so I skipped to the next step which was to expose the substrate to indirect sunlight. Pinning was supposed to start about a week later. A few weeks went by and nothing happened. So i put them in direct sunlight which wasn't in the directions, but I was desperate. A week went by, and here I am. The mycelium kept growing slowly in the light and by now covers about 80% of the substrate, but still no mushroom growth. What should I try next? Or will the shrooms never grow?
You should see pins a week or two after full colonization. Your bag could probably use a dunk and/or roll after your first flush.
The info you've been given in this thread is sound.
The cakes needed to be crumbled and no need to keep 'em in the sun.
Incubators are fine, they just are not needed, they cost $$$ you don't need to spend, and 1 in 3 n00bs fucks their incubator up.
You're one of three. Get your ass on IRC.
-------------------- Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash: I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers
Hyphae: Yes "Loss of moisture from the substrate" is not a casing trigger.
My final Grow!
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