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 420M
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Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 64
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
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 Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . 
#1074821 - 11/21/02 06:53 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here is a problem I ran into lately . .. someone may be able to help.
I had a bunch - like 15 or so filter patch bags that I made with like 6 cups rye each - then put them into a box. . . .problem was tehy crushed each other . . . .and pushed all the air out - kinda deflated them - and it was a bitch to try to pull at the sides of the bag to suck some air into through the bag.
This was my first time messing with the bags. . .. and I was kinda disappointed. Was it just me. .. with this experience. . ..
What I am worried about is that I will make more bags. . .and somehow the air will get OUT of the bag but not back in and my cultures will starve for air.
I know that others are having success with these filterpatch bags. Does someone have some suggestions for making these work awesome?
Thanks in Advance
420M
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Drummer
CelestialMechanic
 
Registered: 08/15/00
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Loc: SE Michigan
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: 420M]
#1075491 - 11/21/02 11:43 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mine always come out of the PC like that, and I unravel the bag a bit and impulse seal them. Usually they will balloon up a bit during colonization, never had a problem either way. Air exchange is not required during germination and colonization.
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People don't want other people to get high, because if you get high, you might see the falsity of the fabric of the society we live in.
-Ken Kesey
Edited by Drummer (11/21/02 11:47 PM)
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MsPacMan
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: Drummer]
#1075914 - 11/22/02 03:22 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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drummer- did you have a hard time with contams at first with your bags? i am having a hard time getting my bags to work. im hoping its a practice makes perfect situation, or its b/c my sealer sucks. i dunno.
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420M
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: MsPacMan]
#1077462 - 11/22/02 05:03 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey Guys. . . I bumped this because I am still looking for suggestions. .. .Thanks in Advance - 420M
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420M
Long Time Reader- First TimePoster
Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 64
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: 420M]
#1087160 - 11/26/02 08:47 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm bumping for more suggestions!!
420M
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Anonymous
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: 420M]
#1087204 - 11/26/02 09:04 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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mycelium doesnt need air exchange when colonizing. if the bags are deflated, thats ok. the thing is: when they start to fruit, the bags will expand, because thats the only time that they need air exchange. thats just how theyre built. the bags are pretty much fool proof. just go with what you have, it should work out
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Fred Garvin
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 Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: 420M]
#1087223 - 11/26/02 09:11 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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420, it's been my experience that it's a good idea to try something new on a small scale at first, so if you screw the pooch, you aren't risking too much material or effort.
That said, in my limited experience with mycobags, I've had serious contamination problems. Then I read something SixTango posted a while back, and the answer appeared in my head. When PCing large bags of bulk grains, you must increase the PC time accordingly. I was still PCing four large bags of rye for 90 mins, same as I do for quart jars. This is insuficient time to heat the grain in the center of the mass to the appropriate level. I've increased the PC time to 2-1/2 hrs, and seem to have beaten the contam problem, for now. I know that's a bit off topic from your original question, but since you're messing with bags, I thought I'd pass that along.
As for your imploding bags, you should be alright, there doesn't need to be a whole lot of air in there, and as long as you're using filter patch bags and the filter isn't covered, I don't think you'll have too many problems. Maybe incubate them next time with a little more space so they're not all packed together. This allows the proper temperature to be maintained in each bag as well. Packing them all together increases the internal temperature of the bags.
I'd be much more worried if your bags really puff up. IME, thats a sure sign of contamination!
Good luck and happy growing 
BTW, you never indicated if you successfully inoculated your bags and how they were doing in regards to colonization. How are they doing?
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The above statements are just the incoherent babblings of your friendly neighborhood Cracker!
Shur drinkin kils brane sells--but only the week ones!!
Edited by Fred Garvin (11/26/02 09:14 AM)
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Drummer
CelestialMechanic
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: MsPacMan]
#1087887 - 11/26/02 02:13 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
drummer- did you have a hard time with contams at first with your bags? i am having a hard time getting my bags to work. im hoping its a practice makes perfect situation, or its b/c my sealer sucks. i dunno.
I have done about 50 bags of millet so far, and lost only one to wetspot. I will try to detail what I do, maybe you can benefit from something.
I use the 18x8x5 filter bags from sporeworks.
http://www.sporeworks.com/images/products/type14bag.jpg
I prepare my millet (only grain I have had high success with) by boiling in a large pot with tap water for 30-35 minutes and draining it through a large cutout door screen (since all the strainers I have seen have too large of holes for the millet) I let it drain for 20-25 minutes before loading it into the bags.
After the bags are loaded I make sure all the air is out and fold the bag down with 1 inch folds until I am 3 folds past the filter patch. I then use 3 wood clothes pins (corner, middle, corner) to secure it. Load them in my PC and sterilize for 1 hour at 15psi. (In the pressure cooker I only put a 1? of water.)
Usually after they cool and I open the PC I find 90% of the clothes pins have come off, but the heat during the sterilization always made the bags remain tightly folded, which helps when it comes time to seal the bags because I unroll the bags until I get to the last fold and seal directly below that without unfolding or opening the bag. Where I seal the bags is not sterile, nor do I prepare it. I think my success has come from leaving the last fold on the bag folded over, thus insuring no air or anything gets inside the bags.
The sealer I use is a 16" impulse I got for $40 off EBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1791404835
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People don't want other people to get high, because if you get high, you might see the falsity of the fabric of the society we live in.
-Ken Kesey
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420M
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: Drummer]
#1089846 - 11/27/02 02:43 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mintal. .. , Fred & Drummer. . . .Thank ALOT for your suggestions.
Here's where I am now. I think that the problem was that my rye was loosing too much moisture when I was cooking it. I KNEW that I had to increase cooking time, however, I didnt consider that I should add more water to the bags since I tend to cook my rye really hot with lots of steam comming out to insure high pressure. I usually cook at 15 PSI for 90 min MINIMUM for 3 bags of substrate containing 6 cups of precooked and sat overnight rye in my 21 quart pressure cookers.
I just did my last batch of grain in jars since I KNOW that works. . .. and am working with liquid inoqs right now - dextrose water.
Thanks for the suggestions - any more that you could think of would be appreciated!
Anyone else care to comment? Maybe since I precook my rye for 45 minutes then drain and put in a container covered to sit overnight to let endospores hatch - maybe it is just too dry - that's what I think. .. only lost 1 bag to contams. . .so I think my sterilization tech. is cool.
Thanks - 420M
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420M
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Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: Drummer]
#1089852 - 11/27/02 02:46 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Drummer,
Cool. .. most of my clothes pins fell off too.
I have a flow hood that I work in front of. .. but I guess it is not necessary to unfold the bag to get some air inside before sealing it huh?
Just take it out, compressed and all. .. seal it . .then reopen when ready to inoc. then reseal?
Oh and. . .how much millet do you put in each bag - how many per canner - what size Pcooker are you using - ONLY 60 MINUTES at 15 psi huh?
Thanks in Advance!!
Got the same sealer - not off e-bay though. 420M
Edited by 420M (11/27/02 02:47 AM)
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Fred Garvin
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: 420M]
#1090379 - 11/27/02 06:44 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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420,
If you can find it, I suggest experimenting with hard winter wheat berries. They are as cheap or cheaper than rye berries, and in my experience, they seem to be easier to get the moisture content right. Prepare them as you would rye They don't get as soft and slimey as rye seems to. I've switched to wheat exclusively for grains.
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The above statements are just the incoherent babblings of your friendly neighborhood Cracker!
Shur drinkin kils brane sells--but only the week ones!!
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420M
Long Time Reader- First TimePoster
Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 64
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
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Re: Deflated Filter Patch Bags . . . [Re: Fred Garvin]
#1093257 - 11/28/02 04:23 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. . .
I hope someone else is able to benefit from this also.
420M
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