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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Nature
    #10771796 -

Are we supposed to be separated from nature? I have a feeling we've forced separation over our time here on Earth and thats why nature can be a dangerous opposition. Just a thought.


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. [Re: auxiliary]
    #10771829 -

.

Edited by FrenchMachine (02/18/10 05:29 PM)

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Re: Nature [Re: FrenchMachine]
    #10771874 -

Yeah I gotta get my hands on that. Had a chance to, but sad to say I chickened out after watching my friend become incoherent. Anyways- I just think it used to be perfect; like we've created an imbalance ever since.


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Edited by auxiliary (07/31/09 12:02 AM)

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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10771954 -

yeah, wed be better off if we built our civilization with nature instead of around it. observing how it works and then copying it in a way


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Re: Nature [Re: FrenchMachine]
    #10773134 -

FrenchMachine said:
We should be embracing Nature, not destroying it.


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Living is easy with eyes closed - John Lennon

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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10774478 -

To say what exactly nature is and how we relate to it is a hell of a question that I spend most of my time thinking about...


We were created from this nature of things, we are bound by it, but as for the natural laws and animals of earth, I think we are apart from it, we as humans are from the nature of the stars. If we are apart from harmony with nature, I think that it is because man himself, or part of man is soul bound to another nature, of another source of creation.

Nature is both creation and destruction. But which nature is "natural?"

"Nature" can be a dangerous opposition to any life form, if by dangerous you mean fatal, see that is the cycle, life~death~life~death, rest and motion, that is the nature of nature, or of law, of form.

To answer any of this you have to understand the true nature of all laws and of all nature everywhere, and again, that is one hell of a question.

Just the time it takes to think about this subject could last a lifetime.

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Re: Nature [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #10774826 -

Quote:
Are we supposed to be separated from nature?


Great topic. :thumbup:

To answer the question, obviously not. Separation from nature means death, for us but also for any other life form sharing the eco-system with us. The interesting thing is that questioning ourselves about such things as well as basically all questioning relating to other philosophical questions began at the same time we began acting recklessly towards it. By that I mean the relationship we had with the ecosystem went from a very simple, naive, symbiosis-like relationship to a relationship based on abuse by the time our mind emerged from this symbiotic innocence and we began looking at ourselves as separate entities.

A bit like what Julian Jaynes discussed in his book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.

Personally, I don't think this " mental breakthrough " is a bad thing and that we should devolve back to simple monkeys. What happened to us is a wonderful thing a thing that we should cherish. What I do think though, is that our minds, even though they are evolved and developped, are often misused... or understimulated.

For some reason, we developped the bad habit of using these new mental abilities for grotesque purposes like harvesting natural ressources for material profit and acting with unrivaled stupidity when it comes to planning the future. What went wrong? I won't pretend to know the answer to that one but one thing is for sure, progress has an end, a close one at that if we do not reconsider our place in the scheme of things and our role in the natural cycle.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: Nature [Re: solstice]
    #10775027 -

I was watching the Matrix and something Agent Smith said really freaked me out to an extent because it's entirely true for the majority of the human population. All animals besides us create a balance in nature yet humans on the whole go from place to place using and abusing resources until they are depleted. It's a fact that is obviously going to need to change in the future.

Auxillary, saying we should be separated from nature is terribly wrong. What you consider being "separated" is the same exact thing as not caring for nature. If we don't care about nature then we will ultimately kill it off because humans have grown on such a massive scale that our singular affect on the planet and it's ecosystem is huge to say the least. I may be sounding like some tree hugging hippy, but it's the honest truth.

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Re: Nature [Re: solstice]
    #10775037 -

Native Americans had their shit figured out... until we came and imposed our "higher society" on them.

I wanna live in a tepee and smoke peyote :thumbdown::sad:


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:dj:
:banana::superbanana::redbanana::bananamusic::celery::rastana::hitlerdance:
          :ass::paradisiscoolwhat:

Edited by _myconaut_ (07/31/09 02:20 PM)

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Re: Nature [Re: Grizvok]
    #10775055 -

Quote:
I may be sounding like some tree hugging hippy, but it's the honest truth.


Nothing wrong with that! In any case, it i better to hug them than to chop them down.

Quote:
All animals besides us create a balance in nature yet humans on the whole go from place to place using and abusing resources until they are depleted. It's a fact that is obviously going to need to change in the future.


Indeed but it wasn't always this way, we were once an integral part of this balance but since we began thinking for ourselves, we stopped thinking about everything else!

I feel this is a test of some sort. A test to see if we can make good use of free will and manage to think for ourselves while still taking care of the natural matrix that gave birth to us you know?


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: Nature [Re: solstice]
    #10775061 -

Quote:
smoke peyote


:lolsy: I would personally eat it.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: Nature [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #10775143 -

TeamAmerica said:
To say what exactly nature is and how we relate to it is a hell of a question that I spend most of my time thinking about...


We were created from this nature of things, we are bound by it, but as for the natural laws and animals of earth, I think we are apart from it, we as humans are from the nature of the stars. If we are apart from harmony with nature, I think that it is because man himself, or part of man is soul bound to another nature, of another source of creation.

Nature is both creation and destruction. But which nature is "natural?"

"Nature" can be a dangerous opposition to any life form, if by dangerous you mean fatal, see that is the cycle, life~death~life~death, rest and motion, that is the nature of nature, or of law, of form.

To answer any of this you have to understand the true nature of all laws and of all nature everywhere, and again, that is one hell of a question.

Just the time it takes to think about this subject could last a lifetime.


I really do believe there is supposed to be a natrual balance. Life~death~life~death I think is a cycle we've created by our own perversion of nature. Maybe this cycle was non-existant when there was balance, because I'm pretty sure it was not God's intent to create death, or opposing laws of nature.


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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10775161 -

Quote:
:lolsy: I would personally eat it.


no man you gotta SMOKE that shit!


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:dj:
:banana::superbanana::redbanana::bananamusic::celery::rastana::hitlerdance:
          :ass::paradisiscoolwhat:

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Re: Nature [Re: _myconaut_]
    #10775198 -

_myconaut_ said:
Quote:
:lolsy: I would personally eat it.


no man you gotta SMOKE that shit!


If you say so :shrug:

Quote:
Maybe this cycle was non-existant when there was balance, because I'm pretty sure it was not God's intent to create death, or opposing laws of nature.


That's interesting! Care to expand on that idea?


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: Nature [Re: solstice]
    #10775380 -

solstice said:
That's interesting! Care to expand on that idea?


Well now, the more I think about it, the more I seem to have thrown myself through a loop. Instead of creating an imbalance, we've simply moved towards the end of the see-saw so to speak. Balance must be constant so when we separate ourselves from nature, it separates itself from us, creating the negative aspects of our life. Maybe?


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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10775401 -

I have grown up in a village where we live in peyote and smoke teepee it isnt fun at all let me tell you

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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10779406 -

auxiliary said:
TeamAmerica said:
To say what exactly nature is and how we relate to it is a hell of a question that I spend most of my time thinking about...


We were created from this nature of things, we are bound by it, but as for the natural laws and animals of earth, I think we are apart from it, we as humans are from the nature of the stars. If we are apart from harmony with nature, I think that it is because man himself, or part of man is soul bound to another nature, of another source of creation.

Nature is both creation and destruction. But which nature is "natural?"

"Nature" can be a dangerous opposition to any life form, if by dangerous you mean fatal, see that is the cycle, life~death~life~death, rest and motion, that is the nature of nature, or of law, of form.

To answer any of this you have to understand the true nature of all laws and of all nature everywhere, and again, that is one hell of a question.

Just the time it takes to think about this subject could last a lifetime.


I really do believe there is supposed to be a natrual balance. Life~death~life~death I think is a cycle we've created by our own perversion of nature. Maybe this cycle was non-existant when there was balance, because I'm pretty sure it was not God's intent to create death, or opposing laws of nature.



Or maybe we pervert the meaning of Life AND Death?

How do you know that "God" even cares if you exist in this nature, or in this form?

And how do you know he was the creator of this nature we find ourselves in?

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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10779440 -

The separation is an illusion, an illusion which teaches us to impose it upon ourselves. If that makes any sense.

Somebody came in here a while ago after a really bad acid trip and summed it up best with his own incoherent, shitty English, and explained that all the pavement, straight lines, right angles, boxes, squares, rectangles, et cetera we find in cities and urban development is unnatural and deleterious to our emotional and psychological health. I personally find that this geometry nurtures a type of goal-obsessed thinking that denies the essence of living enjoyably and in the present. Spending significant time among unflattened, geometrically sophisticated "natural" environments, such as forests, beaches, plains, meadows, et cetera is a profound, spiritually healing experience for us city-dwellers who have forgotten the fragility and fleetingness of the manmade world (and by proxy all of its uniquely human agonies) in the larger context of the World.

This is, by far, the most valuable thing I have learned in my psychedelic pursuits.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (08/01/09 11:07 AM)

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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10779441 -

auxiliary said:
Are we supposed to be separated from nature? I have a feeling we've forced separation over our time here on Earth and thats why nature can be a dangerous opposition. Just a thought.


Nature can be a deadly opponent to any living creature.  Hurricanes, floods, fires, disease, drought, nature can decimate or even annihilate a plant or animal population just as easily as a human one.  The dinosaurs were as much a part of nature as any creatures and look where that got them.

Nature gives no fuck.

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Re: Nature [Re: Zebratek]
    #10779509 -

Zebratek said:
auxiliary said:
Are we supposed to be separated from nature? I have a feeling we've forced separation over our time here on Earth and thats why nature can be a dangerous opposition. Just a thought.


Nature can be a deadly opponent to any living creature.  Hurricanes, floods, fires, disease, drought, nature can decimate or even annihilate a plant or animal population just as easily as a human one.  The dinosaurs were as much a part of nature as any creatures and look where that got them.

Nature gives no fuck.


Seeing all these natural manifestations as antagonistic to life is a perfect example of what we're trying to say here, which is the fact that mankind has come to consider himself part of a perpetual competition, his main competitor being the ecosystem.

It's as if man now thinks that if nature won't adapt to his goals, it better get out of his way.

Can't get more stupid than that.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

Edited by solstice (08/01/09 11:17 AM)

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Re: Nature [Re: solstice]
    #10779561 -

live with nature, not against it.


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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10779689 -

Any separateness you feel from nature is a figment of your imagination.  Humans evolved all the traits we have, including technology and society, in a natural way and everything we do is part of nature.  I think this 'separate from nature' kind of guilt many have is a product of the heavy christian influence in our society.  In christianity humans are somehow separate from the natural world and not considered part of it.  This is of course ridiculous.

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Re: Nature [Re: DieCommie]
    #10779840 -

Qubit said:
Any separateness you feel from nature is a figment of your imagination.  Humans evolved all the traits we have, including technology and society, in a natural way and everything we do is part of nature.  I think this 'separate from nature' kind of guilt many have is a product of the heavy christian influence in our society.  In christianity humans are somehow separate from the natural world and not considered part of it.  This is of course ridiculous.


Well, I agree but you CANNOT deny the fact that many of our technological advances and general expansion have hurt nature and the Earth's ecosystem pretty drastically in some cases. If we really want to live with nature, we need to have as little impact as possible and given the power of humans over the world we should really be making efforts to even improve our planet's health and natural resources.

That's one thing I never understood about religious nuts, how can they think humans are so different from every other animal or organism on the planet? When it comes down to it our singular purpose intended by nature is to have sex and pass on our genes to our offspring just like any other animal out there no matter how small. Humans are obviously just another step in an evolutionary chain that is bound to change quite a few more times before everything is said and done. Who really knows how long it will be before humans evolve, but it's sure to happen.

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Re: Nature [Re: Grizvok]
    #10779895 -

Quote:
Well, I agree but you CANNOT deny the fact that many of our technological advances and general expansion have hurt nature and the Earth's ecosystem pretty drastically in some cases.


I deny that there is any objective measure to 'hurting nature'.  Nature and the ecosystem are in constant flux and any measure of hurting or helping can only be made relative to a particular species or organism.  Consider this:  The oxygen we breath is the pollution from life long past.  To that life, producing oxygen was a pollutant that rendered their niche obsolete.  There is no absolute harm, only relative.

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Re: Nature [Re: DieCommie]
    #10784472 -

Qubit said:
Quote:
Well, I agree but you CANNOT deny the fact that many of our technological advances and general expansion have hurt nature and the Earth's ecosystem pretty drastically in some cases.


I deny that there is any objective measure to 'hurting nature'.  Nature and the ecosystem are in constant flux and any measure of hurting or helping can only be made relative to a particular species or organism.  Consider this:  The oxygen we breath is the pollution from life long past.  To that life, producing oxygen was a pollutant that rendered their niche obsolete.  There is no absolute harm, only relative.


There is Nuclear energy, which produces waste we cannot convert into anything else. We are the only ones able to harness nuclear energy, so we are the only ones responsible for nuclear pollution.

I get your point though, but I think this was true only until be discovered how to harness nuclear energy.

Quote:
That's one thing I never understood about religious nuts, how can they think humans are so different from every other animal or organism on the planet? When it comes down to it our singular purpose intended by nature is to have sex and pass on our genes to our offspring just like any other animal out there no matter how small.


If you see religion as the exuberant form of pride that it is, it makes sense that in their teachings, religions considers man to be superior. This is what happens when a species gets to grow a conscience like the one we have while the other animals don't. We have yet to learn how to use that conscience properly as well as understand how it really functions! We are like kids getting to play with a toy the other can't That is bound to generate immature behavior on the part of this species and religions are the embodiment of that. Religions are organisations created by immature animals that think this new toy of theirs makes them superior to the others.

Where religion often fails to understand the true purpose of this " toy " is when they entertain the possibility of an unsubstantial reward that can only be reached after death while they do their best to convert as many people and take over as much as the land as they can. Makes you wonder if they really are after this reward or if what they really intend to do is take over the world.

Like spoiled brats, they overrun, they abuse, they mistreat the very world they wish to possess. It doesn't make a bit of common sense to own a world that you over-populate, a world that you pollute,a world that you basically strangle to death! Yet, this is what major religions do because they often chose to ignore the innovations and technological breakthroughs that would enable them to take over in a responsible and sane manner, so intent are they on upholding their intrinsic morals. Morals that often are outdated and unrealistic.

So there you have it. As long as mankind will obsess about gene transmission and producing ideological offspring, thus neglecting his most prized possession, consciousness, he will keep on digging his grave because he will fail to realize that his future lies in symbiosis with the ecosystem, no in competition against it.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: Nature [Re: auxiliary]
    #10784629 -

auxiliary said:
Yeah I gotta get my hands on that. Had a chance to, but sad to say I chickened out after watching my friend become incoherent. Anyways- I just think it used to be perfect; like we've created an imbalance ever since.



"It used to be perfect"

I agree.

But does perfect mean that no children were molested, or people conned and stolen from? no murder for gain?

No.

The perfection was in your heart.... a state of openess towards your life.

The animals will always fight, and die.

In the ancient days, when we were walking across the plains, and another group approached in our direction from a distance....... All of our men became alert, and the women and children were moved to the internals of our tribal march.

Weapons were clutched, and our leader would move forward away from our group and wave up peace signs.

Looking for a response, praying that there will be no bloodshed today....

* a sigh of relief * our potential enemies were just passing thru to their winter grounds and would like to sit, smoke and trade for a short time before moving on.

Perfect..... but not "safe" or "fair"

We bought the illusion that life can be "better" by chasing after the things which were not inherantly ours, and ignoring the things that were from the very begining of time.

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Re: Nature [Re: solstice]
    #10784713 -

There is a whole course in my school about how humans are no longer directly associated with nature. Something about how we have developed a gap by not fitting into any ecosystems.

the professor who taught it also taught our philosophy of truth class so when this guy started bullshitting about how we are all connected (no offense to psychonauts) the guy put him in his place :laugh:

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Re: Nature [Re: phaust]
    #10785653 -

phaust said:
There is a whole course in my school about how humans are no longer directly associated with nature. Something about how we have developed a gap by not fitting into any ecosystems.

the professor who taught it also taught our philosophy of truth class so when this guy started bullshitting about how we are all connected (no offense to psychonauts) the guy put him in his place :laugh:


What a wierd class......

I fit into the food chain..... except for the technology.

I am the TOP of the food chain in fact.

So in my nature, I am a part of the circle of life.......

The technology is what causes an artificial division, you can NEVER be divided from your nature...... and your nature is the nature of the universe....

Except for your technology.

IF we would just all BE WHAT WE ARE.... no law, nothing....... no cars.... nothing...... no permanant dwellings.... nothing.....

Seems peaceful in comparrison, even if we would kill each other once and awhile.....


--------------------
Nothing I write on Shroomery's message boards or in private messages are true.  I am fucking crazy and I make all this shit up because I can.

[quote]sploogepanz55 said:
^^^ haha what a bummer, shad0w. All this talk about dying. :smile:
[/quote]

[quote]psychoanomaly said:
And so, I feel your intolerance and phobia towards rectal administration of psychedelics is a violation of the music of the spheres :rolleyes:[/quote]

[quote]shroom_sandwich said:
I could have sworn I seen a thread about a guy saying his dog killed the neighbors chickens earlier....[/quote]

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Re: Nature [Re: Shad0w]
    #10785973 -

Quote:
The technology is what causes an artificial division,


I'm not sure if this is said in a sarcastic fashion, but I can't agree with such a statement. :grin:

Individual consciouness is where all of this arises I think. Like the yin and the yang, it can be both good and bad, depending on the intention. It is the awareness that we are that enabled us to shape our selves and our lives. This awareness enabled us to become what we have become, not technology. Technology is only one of the many results that came out of this emancipation but how technology is used is only the projection of the intention with which we use our consciousness.

We are but children lucky enough to have the greatest gift!

Solar energy and windmills are technological examples of what happens when consciousness is used with the intention of bridging knowledge and respect for the environment together.

Using nuclear energy and oil, on the other hand is what happens when the intention is driven by power and greed.

Poeple driven by power and greed are rarely concerned with the future, their intentions are rooted in the present and, as such, generate many problems that can only be adressed by a change of intention. The technology that we develop and use reflects our intentions, they are not the root of the problem.

Technology can be beautiful if the intention that shapes it is also beautiful because the source material used for building any technology comes from nature. The fact that we see ourselves as different and separated from the ecosystem generates technology that doesn't have much similarities with the world around us, it looks a lot more like we do.

On the other hand, technology built with the intention of keeping natural equilibrium and sustaining the future looks a lot like nature itself.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

Edited by solstice (08/02/09 02:00 PM)

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