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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineKickleM
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Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual
    #10769997 - 07/30/09 05:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

It seems that magic is a fundamental aspect of the world. Natural, if you will.
And being a natural part of the world, it requires no awareness in order to exist.
In this way, it seems much like gravity -- even when we were not aware that gravity was the force holding us onto this orb, it was doing so.
And in this way, even when we are not aware of magic, we often times employ it.

Is it due to the fact that we also are a part of nature, and so inextricably linked to that which magic [and gravity] is also linked? If so, is it only natural that all of these forces interact with one another? This certainly seems to be the case -- we must interact with gravity, it's part of having a physical body. So too, through having a mind, we seem to be without choice in our interaction with magic.

The question for me, then, is why do we even require ceremonies or rituals to invoke its power?
Is the spontaneous nature of magic lacking in some way?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Edited by Kickle (07/30/09 05:23 PM)


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #10770442 - 07/30/09 07:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The question for me, then, is why do we even require ceremonies or rituals to invoke its power?
Is the spontaneous nature of magic lacking in some way?




The purpose of ritual is simply to enhance the belief.
It is never necessary.
If you were to believe without a doubt (which is a very rare quality among the polarized minds of this realm ) ... magic , would simply become a reflection of what it is you wish to actualize and perceive.
Meaning.. the difference between you.. and God .. is merely a belief.
That is why... it IS necessary to understand your connection with everything.

Once the individual realizes its true self as being everything... God is actualized and experienced.
God.. is infinity... therefore.. there is nothing but magic.
Telekinesis is nothing but you moving.
Telepathy is internal chit chat.. etc..
you follow me ?

:crazy2:


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: jivJaN]
    #10770665 - 07/30/09 07:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

:psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit:


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: jivJaN]
    #10770890 - 07/30/09 08:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I follow yea!  :1up:


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: c0sm0nautt] * 1
    #10771106 - 07/30/09 09:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

telling somebody "have a nice day" is magic, as is "you're gonna burn in hell if you dont go to church"

of course the first one is a far more "good' in its nature, but I'm just supporting that everything is magic

ritual has it's good uses, but is not necessary. For example, the ritual setting of peyote amongst native americans is not necessarily to invoke any greater magic, althouhg in some ways it is, because their ritual setting is used to allow greater focus on love and compassion within the community. Other types of shamanic rituals are used to help participants better focus on certain things.


walking 3 steps forward, turning clockwise, walking 5 steps backward, lighting a candle and then reciting the words "inovukus deus magicanteus" is nothing but hocus pocus BS. But using a candle in a ritual can have real magic, because it is a simple little flame that is burning, that is repesentative of the eternal flame that exists in the universe (the sun, etc), and can therefore evoke certain thoughts and feelings that may not be present without it.

everything is magic, and magic is real.

have a good day, everyone :awebig::happyweed:


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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



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Offlinefazdazzle
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #10771596 - 07/30/09 11:09 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Very insightful!

You're right, though; ritual is unnecessary. It just goes to show how little faith people have in themselves, so they turn to an external something to grasp onto and put their faith in.

I think your idea about magick's intrinsic effects are the reasons why "sleight of mind" is a must in order for magick to work. Have faith that it will work - then forget about it - the act of doing so is evidence of your faith.


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Invisiblelavod
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: fazdazzle]
    #10771937 - 07/31/09 12:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Many overlook the ART of magick.  As an analogy, while one may grasp a certain concept within the comedy and tragedy that is life, is'nt it enrapturing to act it all out in a play?  Art and science combined make for a balanced individual.  Denying the I(eye-Yod-Hadit) of glitter and glimmer leads to spaces bitter and ever dimmer.  Shine on.

EDIT: Antoher analogy can be drawn between free form magick versus ceremonial and musick in regards to improvision and structured songs.  Methinks both have their merit.


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Edited by lavod (07/31/09 12:41 AM)


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #10772645 - 07/31/09 04:35 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Ritual is for those with no imagination and free form is for those with no discipline.


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #10772666 - 07/31/09 04:44 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

a concert can be a freeform ritual


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: the bizzle]
    #10773022 - 07/31/09 07:29 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.biroco.com/kaos/kaos14.html

joel's discussion of spontaneous magick is a great read


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Offlinestzacrack
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Taco Chef]
    #10773122 - 07/31/09 08:02 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I find that everywhere I go, everyone I encounter, and everything surrounding me, has a very magical feel to it...it is undeniable.

When you allow yourself to believe and then open your mind, it's amazing what comes to be...

The earth is so beautiful, I am forever loving to the plants and beings on this earth.  I always feel an unconditional love for all animals and plants, they surely are giving you that love in return, and that symbiotic relationship with nature is magical in it's very premise. 

I guess I'm referring to spontaneous, forever existing magic naturally occurring every moment in our realities.


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: stzacrack]
    #10773270 - 07/31/09 08:40 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

innocent magic is stronger than evil


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: the bizzle]
    #10773304 - 07/31/09 08:49 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

i don't really think magick can be evil...not tring to flame, just an answer.


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Taco Chef]
    #10773330 - 07/31/09 09:00 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

it's a lyric. That, in itself, is magic. To remove any power of evil that keeps a person afraid or in doubt. You could doubt the validity of the lyric, but if you were to hear someone singing it with intense passion, the energy would affirm itself, and cause magic to happen

If anything it is a good mantra


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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
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Offlinedesant
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: the bizzle]
    #10773865 - 07/31/09 10:39 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
It seems that magic is a fundamental aspect of the world. Natural, if you will.




And i am very natural to it.

I was just thinking about this thread few days ago: it seems majority of magick ive done /im doing is - "on the fly" / spontaneous.

I need to practise ceremonial / ritualistic magick to do stuff whenever i want to.

"The question for me, then, is why do we even require ceremonies or rituals to invoke its power?
Is the spontaneous nature of magic lacking in some way? "

I dont know dude, i do spontaneous magic every day and its a lot of fun...


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Taco Chef]
    #10775505 - 07/31/09 03:47 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

novumorganum said:
i don't really think magick can be evil...not tring to flame, just an answer.



There is no evil magick, only practitioners with evil intent.


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Offlinethefarside
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #10775569 - 07/31/09 03:58 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

So many of us have forgot what the magic is. Maybe we forget for a lifetime, maybe we forget for 5 minutes when we`re stuck in traffic and late for a job interview. This is where ritual becomes helpful. Techniques that have worked from before time as a reminder.... if you don`t need a reminder, then maybe you practice the ritual for the sake of others, for those that have forgotten.

Our barriers to true perception are strong, karma, darkness, being human, call it what you will, but they are there. How wonderful to live in a world full of rituals designed to help. No need to struggle against them, just bow to the ground in gratitude for the amazing wisdom in a candle or a song at church or a shamanic ceremony in the Amazon jungle.


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: thefarside]
    #10775593 - 07/31/09 04:03 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Ritual is really just a reminder that the magick is there IMO. It serves as something tangible with which to interact with the intangible.

It serves to create something in the mind where it didnt exist before.

The pentacle I may use in ritual is a physical representation of something that is not physical.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #10776374 - 07/31/09 06:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Wonderful responses all! :cheers:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKupo
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: thefarside]
    #10780423 - 08/01/09 02:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I feel like I have willed things into happening, or thought things into occurence.
Usually when emotions are strongly involved.

Yet I tell myself I don't know a thing about magic

I feel like I forget that I know


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