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m1ndeater
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 25
Last seen: 12 years, 23 days
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Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz
#10759367 - 07/29/09 01:05 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello.
This is my second attempt at a monotub and although I got a few more shrooms than the first time I wouldn't say I am as close to my full canopy dreams as I want to be. Below you'll find a summarize of my actions, if you have any input or advice I'd very much appreciate your wisdom. cheers
- Ecuador on WBS bags - Bulk Sub: 1 brick coco coir, 7.5qts water, 1qt. verm, 3/4 qt coffee grounds - The bulk sub colonized quickly and covered about 95% of the surface (see image 1). I believe the few places it didn't cover were hard chunks of wood from the coir. Did not open it at all while incubating and holes were taped.
- cased with 50/50 pete/verm and patched. - moved to incubation chamber when 70% myce was lightly appearing through the casing layer. At this point I swapped the tape for cotton balls. Basically let it be at this point.
Symptoms: - very few pins, freakishly large shrooms, thin stems (not rounded), growing sideways...?
A few days ago I started fanning it once a day cause I was worried it was due to lake of FAE. My hypothesis is either:
1) not enough FAE - this is why the shrooms are growing towards the holes, in search of air
OR
2) low water content in substrate - not sure about this since the sub doesn't seem that dry and there is always a decent amount of condensation on the inside of the walls.
What do you think?
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Lostkeys
Fractal Thought Pattern
Registered: 06/06/09
Posts: 1,355
Loc: Sirius
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: m1ndeater]
#10759974 - 07/29/09 04:03 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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As far as I can tell, the fruits you do have seem very healthy, but I'm nowhere near an expert. IMO your culprit is most likely the random gene lottery from MS inoculation.
It is my belief that in order to get one of the canopies we see around here, it's best to use an isolate cloned from a tissue sample... if not an isolate than some cloned mycellium from a fruit for sure.
It's common for mycellium not to have the genes for producing fruit, and you get a patchwork of varying mycellium cultures from multispore.
If you use cloned tissue to start a grow, you already know up front that ALL of the mycellium will be capable of producing fruit at the very least.
-------------------- So heavy I fell through the earth...
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DEOXYShiitakes
Grain of Time
Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 52
Loc: in my head?
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: Lostkeys]
#10759988 - 07/29/09 04:13 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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maybe the patches are a bit thick.. or unnecessary
-------------------- "They got money for wars but they can't feed the poor." We are all 1 Consciousness experiencing itself subjectively.. "Oh yeah, sometimes my mistakes turn out better than my intentions."
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Lostkeys
Fractal Thought Pattern
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Posts: 1,355
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: DEOXYShiitakes]
#10759998 - 07/29/09 04:18 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DEOXYShiitakes said: maybe the patches are a bit thick.. or unnecessary
Are you referring to the cotton he's using filter for his holes? Personally cotton is a bad choice, as it's organic and therefore prime breeding ground for contams. Polyfil would be much more preferred, but I don't really think FAE is the problem here, as the stipes are in good proportion to the caps. If FAE were the issue, using less filter material would allow more air through. It could be packed too tightly if that were the case.
-------------------- So heavy I fell through the earth...
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TacoHerder
Bluedavenger
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 10,107
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: Lostkeys]
#10760023 - 07/29/09 04:30 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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your fruit bodies look like they are searching for some fae or some light. Dont use cotton either, its a synthetic material and can ruin your grow. Next time use polyfill.
-------------------- TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385 We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time! Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right Shoot me a pm if you would like a powerful custom laser built. 4th pic is a 1.3W 445nm laser burning thru some plastic makeup containers. Yes I was wearing proper safety goggles, otherwise I would be blind right now.
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DEOXYShiitakes
Grain of Time
Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 52
Loc: in my head?
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: Lostkeys]
#10760025 - 07/29/09 04:32 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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polyfiber is actually cheaper than cotton ---- patches- i was referring to the man's casing patches to even pinset, but seems he instead got barely pinset
i think the problem is you worry too much about overlay, which comes from dry over growth and it it starts to turn yellow. white and fluffy you're all good for fruiting
-------------------- "They got money for wars but they can't feed the poor." We are all 1 Consciousness experiencing itself subjectively.. "Oh yeah, sometimes my mistakes turn out better than my intentions."
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TacoHerder
Bluedavenger
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 10,107
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: DEOXYShiitakes]
#10760050 - 07/29/09 04:44 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Patching looks good, how much light did they get?
-------------------- TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385 We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time! Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right Shoot me a pm if you would like a powerful custom laser built. 4th pic is a 1.3W 445nm laser burning thru some plastic makeup containers. Yes I was wearing proper safety goggles, otherwise I would be blind right now.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: TacoHerder]
#10760121 - 07/29/09 05:53 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TacoHerder said: your fruit bodies look like they are searching for some fae or some light. Dont use cotton either, its a synthetic material and can ruin your grow. Next time use polyfill.
+1
I'd say more FAE, plus finer control of pinning initiation.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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vinylcassett
Beat Master General
Registered: 02/26/08
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: Doc_T]
#10760147 - 07/29/09 06:09 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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do people ussually case with a monotub??
a foaf is about to do a monotub and has never seen this done.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: vinylcassett]
#10760171 - 07/29/09 06:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's generally not needed if you are growing cubes in your monotub.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Lostkeys
Fractal Thought Pattern
Registered: 06/06/09
Posts: 1,355
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: Doc_T]
#10760180 - 07/29/09 06:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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So, if long stipes like that indicate a lack of FAE, then what do short mushies that never grow more than 2 to 3 inches indicate, a lack of humidity? Possibly water content in the substrate?
-------------------- So heavy I fell through the earth...
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: Lostkeys]
#10760240 - 07/29/09 06:55 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Resources usually. Water is probably it. Also, if you don't use gypsum you'll get smaller shrooms. And little itty bitty bonsai mushrooms indicate a contam, IME.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: Doc_T]
#10760766 - 07/29/09 09:28 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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lack of moisture or a water logged substrate can cause small mushrooms.
Replace that cotton with loose polyfill and run an oscilating fan in the room the keep the air moving around (not directly at the monotub)
Also make sure your tub is getting bright light in the daylight range.
You can also mist and fan a few times daily to improve performance. While monotubs are generaly a set it and forget it fruiting chamber, sometimes you get a strain (not strain name, but strain created from spores) that really isnt tolorent of co2 and needs more fae.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: veda_sticks]
#10760780 - 07/29/09 09:30 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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^^ all that is true.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: Doc_T]
#10760841 - 07/29/09 09:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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and dont feel bad, it could just be ginetics. I have a mini mono tub with 3 cakes thats failed to produce what a cake would.
Even with fanning and misting. first flush gave 2 mushrooms, total harvest about 25 grams. 2nd flush now has more mushrooms around 10 but still looks to be about what 1 cake would produce.
maybe by the third flush it'll go nuts hopefully
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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m1ndeater
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/08
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub resautlz [Re: veda_sticks]
#10760998 - 07/29/09 10:28 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks guys!
My mistake, it is actually polyfill not cotton, I'm going to swap it for a looser ball. I've setup an oscillating fan on low in the room. Room temps have been reaching 30 degrees Celsius
It is in a room where the blinds are closed but get direct sunlight so it is very easy to see inside during the day, I think that's all I need for light.
Lostkeys: you brought up multispore as the culprit and this is the first time I've considered this, it's sorta all making sense now haha. I have to LC'd, one multispore and one clone and I randomly have been using them over the last few months. Unfortunately they aren't labeled This might explain why I had 2 trays last month with beautiful full canopy flushes, (they musta been clones), and this tub must be MS. Great idea man.
G2g to work be back in a few hours.
- m1
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Psuper
Psilocybin
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Posts: 2,874
Loc: PNW
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub results [Re: veda_sticks]
#10761257 - 07/29/09 11:25 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think I am a little confused on something and want some more opinions- Veda and Doc-t, you guys talk a lot about genetics having to do with pin sets/ fruit size/ end results...... Okay, so we all agree that different strains will fruit/perform/colonize differently right? but what I am trying to specifically bring up, if I can word this coherently, is the idea that if starting with (multispore inoculated) a few cakes or a couple quarts of grain you may be doomed to only growing a couple mushrooms, because of bad genetics, and that this is somewhat normal. (?)
This is the impression, or idea conveyed to me anyway, not just from you two of course. Soooooo I guess my question is how common do cultivators think this is? Again, working with a few cakes or a couple quarts of grain spawn all multispore inoculated.
Let me first point out that I never cultivate cakes, but regardless, in my experience with quarts of grain I've obviously seen different sized mushrooms, different pin sets, had yields that weighed less compared to "averages" I have----- But in my limited experience over the months I've been a member here, I've never seen a healthy/mostly healthy bulk substrate, in person, just not produce mushrooms, or only produce three fruits.
Can cultivators really have 6 or 8 healthy cakes, M.S. inoculated, all in a fruiting chamber at the same time fail to fruit any mushrooms? What are the odds that that is due solely to "bad genetics"?? Or a tray with a quart or two of grains??
I hope it's obvious I am not trying to argue with anyone, I am just saying this really is the perception I get when reading about "bad genetics".... And again, I haven't worked with cakes or really old spores. I am interested to hear anyones responses/criticisms on it even if you want to PM me. ~Pixie~
-------------------- Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub results [Re: Psuper]
#10761279 - 07/29/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think it's possible but unlikely. It's like getting a flat tire on the way to work or something. If all other factors are normal, and you get fruits in one tub but not another, what's the answer? Same methods, recipes, teks. Same light, FAE, mist. But different genetics. I don't think it's too common, and I think it takes a pretty good grower to nail it down to one single cause. But there you go. Many spore matings are incapable of fruiting, it's possible to grow a whole tub of that.
... could also be a contaminant that looks white and fluffy.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub results [Re: Doc_T]
#10761353 - 07/29/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its highly unlikey but it has happened.
I have a tub with 3 crumbled cakes and its failed to produce half of what my other tub with just 1 crumbled cake in it. Even the 2nd flush of that tub is poor.
Ive had cakes produce a measily 20 grams per flush, and others produce nice clusters of fruits and a healthy 50-60 grams on 1 flush.
The OP says hes now going to add a fan, so maybe that was part of the reason aswell that it didnt pin too well.
So far ive failed to have somethng not produce. The closest i got was by 3 cake mini mono which went several weeks doing nothing. But i have seen a few grows over the years that did nuthing despite looking healthy.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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Psuper
Psilocybin
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Posts: 2,874
Loc: PNW
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Re: Please diagnose my inferior monotub results [Re: Doc_T]
#10761582 - 07/29/09 12:29 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: I think it's possible but unlikely. It's like getting a flat tire on the way to work or something.
Quote:
Doc_T said:
If all other factors are normal, and you get fruits in one tub but not another, what's the answer? Same methods, recipes, teks. Same light, FAE, mist. But different genetics.
This is exactly the kind of perspective/idea that I am trying to reference in my above post. Have you actually seen a healthy tub, or tray, or group of cakes simply not produce any or just a few mushrooms???
Because if you have seen this I am obviously asking for some input----spawn ratios, something---not flat-tire analogies
Quote:
Doc_T said: Many spore matings are incapable of fruiting, it's possible to grow a whole tub of that.
-------------------- Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk
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