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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: THC Titan]
    #10754955 - 07/28/09 11:42 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You would guess a lot of things, it seems.  They should bid the VA out and privatize it.

Yeah, I know that people with money can still get private care, which I will be doing.  After I pay for 5 times as many bums as I pay for now.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10755230 - 07/28/09 12:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

>  After I pay for 5 times as many bums as I pay for now.

On the bright side, after the government realizes how expensive breeders are, maybe they will put an end to... well, no, probably not... (ok, so no bright side after all)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinebugabuga420
bUgAbUgaBOO


Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 488
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: zouden]
    #10755615 - 07/28/09 01:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

bugabuga420 said:
Health care is defiantly not the role of government, ask yourself how come the price of computers and cellphones has gone down but not health care? or another example the  rising costs of higher education? The natural course for things is for the price to go down, with increased technology and competition. You cannot say the demand has gone up for healthcare but not for cell phones. The reason the prices in these industries haven't dropped as well is due to government interference.




WTF? How come the price of cars, bread, milk, movie tickets, beer, perfume, clothes, plumbers or electricians hasn't gone down? It's completely false to say that the "natural course" is for prices to decrease. The natural course is for prices to match what the market will bear. Which means if the technology to produce mobile phones becomes cheaper, the price will go down. If the cinema chains find that people will accept a higher ticket price, they become more expensive.

In the case of healthcare, why would prices decrease? If anything, there's an upward pressure on prices as hospitals buy more expensive machines. And guess what: people keep paying for it. It's what the market will bear.





I was not talking about state of the art procedures, where the grunt of the costs represent R&D expenses.  The price for routine health care in general has gone up. If you need to get stitches or have a sore throat and have to go see a routine visit to the doctor. The doctor is going to do same thing more or less than a doctor 30 years ago would have done. The other goods and services you name price has gone up because on inflation and government intervention. When I say natural course, that would be in a completely free market environment free of over regulation , not one where central planners set the interest rates and pursue inflationary quantitative easing policies. A good example would be the late 19th century where the market was mostly free of government interference and prices went down every year for generations.

Just because you are very accustomed to government intervention into a market does not mean that it is what the market would bear. You must understand that when comparing prices of movie tickets now to those of 1913 is that the dollar has lost 95% of its value since then, so if they cost 95% more now then they did then, essentially the price has not changed. Lets see beer? no govt regulation in that industry or excise tax? milk and bread? yea agricultural is a real government free industry, ie FDA, The Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009 and let us not forget food stamps. Cars, you know with big money, big government and big labor running the show I can see how the free market is setting the price here too. Compare the price of a average car to the average income in a America adjusted for inflation to the price of a Model T to average income of the time.

Your whole statement fails to figure in inflation. As much as the Fed would like you to believe a 2% inflation rate per year is not natural. The rise in health care and education prices is in disproportion to other goods and services because they have the most intervention by government. Can we have socialized electricians and plumbers too, because I mean having electricity and running water and toilets is a fundamental right that should be provided to us by government just like healthcare right? lol

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,184
Loc: High pride!
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10756231 - 07/28/09 03:27 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I think anti-universal health care people have just been tricked.  They trick you into getting upset about the cost of universal health care, when that cost is minuscule compared to the money we waste on other things.  Didn't $9 BILLION of tax payer money just disappear in Iraq?  Not a peep from you about that. 










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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10756272 - 07/28/09 03:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The preferred method for discouraging this kind of abuse in the socialist states seems to be to make it as difficult as possible to get an appointment.  Yipee.



More lies. Have you ever even been to a country with a good universal healthcare system? You clearly don't know what you're talking about.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: zouden]
    #10756302 - 07/28/09 03:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Right, all those news reports about Great Britain and Canada are bullshit.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: zouden]
    #10756330 - 07/28/09 03:43 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:

More lies.




Nonsense.

Quote:

Have you ever even been to a country with a good universal healthcare system?




What planet can I find one on? Clearly it's not this one.

Quote:

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.




I do a lot of reading and have yet to read about a system that could be described as good. I have yet to read about one that doesn't have ridiculous waits. I have yet to read about one that I would wish to be a part of.

I'll take care of my own health care, thank you.

The government can fuck up a hand full of dirt. I have no wish for this level of involvement in my life.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10756420 - 07/28/09 04:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Dude, I can pick up the phone right now and get an appointment at any GP I want, probably this afternoon. So no, zappa does not know what he's talking about when he said the government makes it "as difficult as possible to get an appointment".


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: zouden]
    #10756457 - 07/28/09 04:07 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Dude, I can pick up the phone right now and get an appointment at any GP I want, probably this afternoon. So no, zappa does not know what he's talking about when he said the government makes it "as difficult as possible to get an appointment".




Dude, I've read enough stories to know that's not always the case. It's awesome that your experience is different but as far as MY reading goes, that's not the norm.

And to be quite frank, I put way more faith in what he has to say than the spew that comes from you. Why? Because I read and see that his take on things is typically correct.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10756491 - 07/28/09 04:12 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

First of all, he lives in a tiny island nation and somehow thinks his experiences apply to all nations.  Second, There is at least some part of Australia where the ehalth system is seriously fucked, I don't remember where but I'm sure he does. 
Then we have this rousing endorsement from Canadians as polled by the arch retard Paul Krugman.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-motley/2009/07/28/nyts-krugman-conducts-informal-canadian-health-care-poll-result-bad-mo
7 out of 7 said it was poopie.


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Invisibledanielx
whatup!
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Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: Learyfan]
    #10756499 - 07/28/09 04:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I think anti-universal health care people have just been tricked.  They trick you into getting upset about the cost of universal health care, when that cost is minuscule compared to the money we waste on other things.  Didn't $9 BILLION of tax payer money just disappear in Iraq?  Not a peep from you about that. 





you listen hear you little dick wad, ive had a relative die because of poor socialzed health care outside of america. They couldn't get the help they needed because of a huge waiting line. Its not always just about the money.

All just a trick right? Can you bring people back from the dead with your leary shamanism?

some people...


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Long live kratom :kratom:

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10756633 - 07/28/09 04:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

But unlike you guys I actually live in a country with universal healthcare so I'm exposed to the day-to-day operations of it, rather than reading horror stories online. And the truth is it's just as easy to get an appointment here as it is in the US.

Perhaps you are thinking of elective surgery waiting times at public hospitals. That's the main scare tactic the Right use. Last time I had elective surgery, I had the choice of going to a public hospital or paying extra and going to a private one. The waiting time at the public hospital was four weeks. Four weeks! Of course I waited.

So go ahead, find an article about a woman who had to wait a year for her hip replacement, and watch me not give a shit. The fact is, the system works for the vast majority of people in this country.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,184
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: danielx]
    #10756748 - 07/28/09 04:47 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Which country was it? 












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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Invisibledanielx
whatup!
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Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: Learyfan]
    #10757079 - 07/28/09 05:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

canada.


--------------------
Long live kratom :kratom:

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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: danielx]
    #10757482 - 07/28/09 07:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

you listen hear you little dick wad




Either grow up or take this shit to OTD.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: Redstorm]
    #10757557 - 07/28/09 07:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
But unlike you guys I actually live in a country with universal healthcare so I'm exposed to the day-to-day operations of it, rather than reading horror stories online.




How happy I am for you.

That doesn't change the fact that with a little research, you'll find that your experience does not match a great many others.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: Redstorm]
    #10757564 - 07/28/09 07:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Either grow up or take this shit to OTD.




When did they make you a mod?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,184
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: danielx]
    #10757923 - 07/28/09 08:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

danielx said:
canada.




So you know someone who died in Canada because they weren't able to be seen by a doctor.  I do not believe you.











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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


Edited by Learyfan (07/28/09 08:28 PM)

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: Seuss]
    #10758099 - 07/28/09 09:05 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, it does suck....Ive been in the system for close to eight years.

They will throw medicatation at you beyond belief and hope you dont show up again.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Invisibledanielx
whatup!
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Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
Re: Bill Maher quote about socialized health care for veterans [Re: Learyfan]
    #10759437 - 07/29/09 01:23 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

danielx said:
canada.




So you know someone who died in Canada because they weren't able to be seen by a doctor.  I do not believe you.





tell that to my moms cousin.


--------------------
Long live kratom :kratom:

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