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OfflineMsPacMan
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Three strikes- youre out
    #1075513 - 11/22/02 01:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Wouldn't sentencing someone to more jail time because of past convictions be convicting them again for that past?

i mean you could have three minor theft charges, and got to jail for 15 years....any thoughts?


Edited by MsPacMan (11/22/02 01:52 AM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: MsPacMan]
    #1075520 - 11/22/02 01:58 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Mandatory minimums are the devils creation.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineMsPacMan
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1075751 - 11/22/02 03:47 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

yea they are. it's a good idea for things like murder....but minor charges like theft and stuff like that? i got arrested for stealing. i was locked up for 5 hours, and i will never steal again. i learned from that. christ. jail time for one year for stealing a couple pairs of jeans? thats cruel and unusual punishment.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: MsPacMan]
    #1075900 - 11/22/02 05:05 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Poor baby. Don't steal then. I have no problem with three strike laws.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1075907 - 11/22/02 05:16 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

No problem with 3 strikes laws? No thought of rehabilitation or mercy? Justice is supposed to be punishment tempered with mercy. In today's environment of guilt by association, conspiracy, and dwindeling fourth amendment rights you have no problem with 3 strikes or manditory minimums? What about for growing shroomies or getting caught with a bowl?

Lets say you're a poor black man. You get caught growing a pot plant in your backyard, you're public defender gets you a misdemeanor plea bargain. Strike 1. You go in a store and your friend unbeknownst to you, shoplifts somthing, a second misdeamenor, strike2. Then as a favor you help your girl's dad fill in a low spot in his backyard, only problem is that the lowspot is part of a federally protected wetland and you just bought yourself a felony for dumping some dirt there as a favor to your girl's dad. Strike 3. You're out, you get 20 years, life in prison. Now this is blatently unfair, would you dispute that?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (11/22/02 05:19 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1075932 - 11/22/02 05:51 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I have no problem with three strike laws.

In your first example, while I don't think drugs should be illegal, a crime was knowingly commited. Don't do the crime if you're not willing to pay the price.

In your second, I'm unaware of any laws that would do as you say for a misdemeanor. If there are some please quote the relative statute so as I may learn.

In the third, even in this fucked up world unless you knowingly destroy a wetland the most that would happen is you'd have to restore your yard to its original condition. I won't even comment here on the wetland laws.

Now here's a better example without reference to color.

A scumbag over the course of his life murders, rapes and commits armed robbery. Should he not be in for life?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1075984 - 11/22/02 07:08 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Why don't we just chop people's hands off for stealing.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1075990 - 11/22/02 07:15 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i like it... :grin:


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1075998 - 11/22/02 07:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

America should just convert to Islam.

We could just have people line up, and walk over hot coals, then behead everyone with blisters on their feet.


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OfflineMsPacMan
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1076120 - 11/22/02 09:44 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"California's new "Three Strikes" law requires judges to impose a 25 years to life sentences to those receiving a third felony conviction, even for crimes that, taken by themselves, would warrant a much lighter penalty"

ok- a crime is a crime, and they should be punished. i see that, but do you realize how much tax money is going to be paying for all of these criminals in which half of them steal bikes and break into cars?

This law (propostition 184) was passed in 1994 in california, and i can't find any statistics or studies to show if the crime rate has gone down since then....im still looking though. This was posted in '93 suggesting the effects....

"If fully implemented as written, the new law will reduce serious felonies committed by adults[2 ]in California between 22 and 34 percent. About a third of the felonies eliminated will be violent crimes such as murder, rape, and assaults causing great bodily injury. The other two-thirds will be felonies that are less violent or nonviolent but still serious, including less injurious assaults, most robberies, and burglaries of residences. "


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InvisibleFrog31337
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1076729 - 11/22/02 01:50 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

I have no problem with three strike laws.



I understand why we have the 3 strikes laws. "This guy didn't learn the first two times, he will never learn, lock him away!" But I don't support this idea because it limits the powers of the judicial branch. Legislation should never be allowed to tell another branch of the gov HOW to do its job. All crimes are not equal even if they are classified the same.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1077164 - 11/22/02 04:41 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

Why don't we just chop people's hands off for stealing.



OK but lets also tattoo a big red letter T on their forhead.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: MsPacMan]
    #1077177 - 11/22/02 04:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

As I said in my reply, I didn't think the three strikes laws applied to midemeanors.

In reply to:

ok- a crime is a crime, and they should be punished. i see that, but do you realize how much tax money is going to be paying for all of these criminals in which half of them steal bikes and break into cars?




I would suggest to you that people will learn eventually after enough crooks go to jail and not as many will commit felonies. And what is greater... the cost to incarcerate or the cost to society by letting felons run free?

Keep in mind that the stats indicate the majority of serious crime is commited by repeat offenders. And what of their kids? They see mom or dad do these crimes and what do they learn to do? Maybe not all the kids follow in mom/dads footsteps but enough do.

To paraphrase.... WE MUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: MsPacMan]
    #1077274 - 11/22/02 05:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I'd make it mandatory for rich corporations too. Get caught polluting three times and every director in the company is imprisoned for the rest of their life.

That should clear the environment up in no time.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: Xlea321]
    #1077281 - 11/22/02 05:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

nice idea alex. i read something on overgrow.com about the Bush admin laxing pollution laws for corperations. i also read on drudge that they are also letting oil companies drill in national parks!!!!!!!! what is this world coming to?

also about the 3 strikes stuff. i think its a bunch of bullshit and society had better find a better way to deal with their bastard children than increasing prison populations with some poor saps who got caught.


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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: Eightball]
    #1077409 - 11/22/02 06:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

increasing prison populations with some poor saps who got caught.

Good point. Guess it's a good way for business to get some cheap labour tho. Paying a living wage seems to be something business recoils from these days - they prefer using kids as slaves in south east asia or making convicts do the work.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineMsPacMan
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: Xlea321]
    #1077920 - 11/22/02 10:39 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i think its great when i see prisoners out cleaning the roads. thats what they should be doing instead of sitting around getting ass raped all day.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Three strikes- youre out [Re: MsPacMan]
    #1078549 - 11/23/02 03:28 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah but it's all the ordinary people out of work because of the prisoners you have to think about.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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