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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Poisoning Case
    #10749852 - 07/27/09 02:41 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Just received these photos from a local poisoning case involving a three year old that ingested the mushrooms -- found growing from a lawn beneath and elm tree. Symptoms are primarily gastrointestinal in nature, with the possibility of hallucinations (hard to gauge with such a young subject I imagine).

Here are the photos, any ideas? Yes, the... mushrooms are mangled and no spore print color is available at this time. I will leave my suspicions aside so as not to compromise objectivity should anyone care to weigh in.

Thanks









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Offlinemasspan
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: georgeM]
    #10749971 - 07/27/09 02:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

wow, sorry to hear that, hope the little one is ok :frown:


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my mother said, to get things done, you'd better not mess with Major Tom...whose status is the baddest, everytime 'they' bless the apparatus


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InvisibleDannyGlick

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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: georgeM]
    #10750007 - 07/27/09 03:04 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Some kind of Cort? Any gills left?


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: DannyGlick]
    #10750107 - 07/27/09 03:20 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Cortinarius was my first thought as well.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: DannyGlick]
    #10750126 - 07/27/09 03:22 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks Daniel and German Kahuna -- I think the following two pictures might be gills, the material looks to be staining brown... pretty bad shape aye? I'm not sure what the third photo is, could be a portion of the stipe however i suspect it might be a section of the cap.






Edited by georgeM (07/27/09 03:23 PM)


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InvisibleDannyGlick

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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: georgeM]
    #10750154 - 07/27/09 03:26 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, hard for me to say George. The stems look like they have some brown spores on them. The stems do look kind of Cort-ish but I'm not real sure.

Hope the youngun makes it.:sad:


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Offlinecyanophilus
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: DannyGlick]
    #10750158 - 07/27/09 03:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Cort was my first guess as well, Inocybe is another good possibility considering the texture of the stem.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: German Kahuna]
    #10750173 - 07/27/09 03:30 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

They need to be prepared to wash the stomach and also give the kid activated carbon to counter an orellanin poisoning. The kid needs to be kept under observation. If it is indeed orellanin severe symptoms won't occur until about 36 hours after ingestion. Better take no chances. This is serious.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: German Kahuna]
    #10750239 - 07/27/09 03:39 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Onset of symptoms where 3 - 5 hours after ingestion, vomiting wasn't (isn't) severe. I did suggest the application of KOH could potentially help narrow it down, surely they would be able to do that on site. Cortinarius is an intriguing suggestion, it would be nice to have a look at the stuff under a microscope.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: georgeM]
    #10750303 - 07/27/09 03:50 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Definitely. The kid needs to be kept under observation for sure. The problem is that nobody knows how much it ingested. Also there is a point of no return for orellanin poisoning after which the kidneys are irreversibly damaged, so it is vital to ID what it ate and to take measures ahead of time in case that it indeed ate a deadly poisonous Cortinarius.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: georgeM]
    #10750352 - 07/27/09 04:00 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Looks like a brown staining entoloma.

But without more to go on it could be a lot of things including amanita and lepiota.

They should be able to look at the gills on site.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: falcon]
    #10750588 - 07/27/09 04:38 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I guess we are waiting on a spore print, as mangled as the mushroom is I kinda suspect this will not be successful. I'm hoping the kid ate something like Leucoagaricus naucinus and is having a reaction to the raw mushroom.

Thanks for all the input.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: German Kahuna]
    #10750613 - 07/27/09 04:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

They need to be prepared to wash the stomach and also give the kid activated carbon to counter an orellanin poisoning. The kid needs to be kept under observation. If it is indeed orellanin severe symptoms won't occur until about 36 hours after ingestion. Better take no chances. This is serious.




There has never been a case of orellenine poisoning in the US, and given the onset its probably something a lot less toxic, maybe muscarine.

It would help to see the pileipellis of the cap.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: georgeM]
    #10750615 - 07/27/09 04:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Keep us updated. I really want to hear that the kid is fine a few days from now.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #10750625 - 07/27/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

They need to be prepared to wash the stomach and also give the kid activated carbon to counter an orellanin poisoning. The kid needs to be kept under observation. If it is indeed orellanin severe symptoms won't occur until about 36 hours after ingestion. Better take no chances. This is serious.




There has never been a case of orellenine poisoning in the US, and given the onset its probably something a lot less toxic, maybe muscarine.

It would help to see the pileipellis of the cap.



It's certainly good to hear that. I didn't want to cause a panic either. But better safe than sorry, especially with small kids.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: German Kahuna]
    #10751869 - 07/27/09 08:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

More photos surfaced and someone was able to ID them as C. molybdites. The child is doing better. :thumbup:

Thanks for all the feedback


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Offlinemasspan
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: georgeM]
    #10751963 - 07/27/09 08:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

good to hear the child's ok :sun:


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my mother said, to get things done, you'd better not mess with Major Tom...whose status is the baddest, everytime 'they' bless the apparatus


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Offline2859558484
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: georgeM]
    #10751967 - 07/27/09 08:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

georgeM said:
More photos surfaced and someone was able to ID them as C. molybdites. The child is doing better. :thumbup:

Thanks for all the feedback





ive heard from a trusted friend that ingested green gills that they do make you hallucinate


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Offlinehooksbooks
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: 2859558484]
    #10752900 - 07/28/09 12:13 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

i really would say that it is more of a delerium, not quite pleasant at all.  stem does look kind of like the molybdites i remember, but no greenness in the gills? also the pins/sclerotia? at the base doesnt really look familiar. 
hope the lil fella stopped pissing out his ass, as i remember it was pretty uncomfortable.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Poisoning Case [Re: hooksbooks]
    #10753863 - 07/28/09 07:07 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

ahh, I should have clarified that haahaa, the pins like things at the base are rocks.


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