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OfflineEllis Dee
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Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen
    #1075349 - 11/22/02 12:39 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

NYT: Pentagon Plans a Computer System That Would Peek at Personal Data of Americans
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/09/politics/09COMP.html (link requires registration)



quote:
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November 9, 2002

Pentagon Plans a Computer System That Would Peek at Personal Data of Americans

By JOHN MARKOFF

The Pentagon is constructing a computer system that could create a vast electronic dragnet, searching for personal information as part of the hunt for terrorists around the globe — including the United States.

As the director of the effort, Vice Adm. John M. Poindexter, has described the system in Pentagon documents and in speeches, it will provide intelligence analysts and law enforcement officials with instant access to information from Internet mail and calling records to credit card and banking transactions and travel documents, without a search warrant.

Historically, military and intelligence agencies have not been permitted to spy on Americans without extraordinary legal authorization. But Admiral Poindexter, the former national security adviser in the Reagan administration, has argued that the government needs broad new powers to process, store and mine billions of minute details of electronic life in the United States.

Admiral Poindexter, who has described the plan in public documents and speeches but declined to be interviewed, has said that the government needs to "break down the stovepipes" that separate commercial and government databases, allowing teams of intelligence agency analysts to hunt for hidden patterns of activity with powerful computers.

"We must become much more efficient and more clever in the ways we find new sources of data, mine information from the new and old, generate information, make it available for analysis, convert it to knowledge, and create actionable options," he said in a speech in California earlier this year.

Admiral Poindexter quietly returned to the government in January to take charge of the Office of Information Awareness at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, known as Darpa. The office is responsible for developing new surveillance technologies in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks.

In order to deploy such a system, known as Total Information Awareness, new legislation would be needed, some of which has been proposed by the Bush administration in the Homeland Security Act that is now before Congress. That legislation would amend the Privacy Act of 1974, which was intended to limit what government agencies could do with private information.

The possibility that the system might be deployed domestically to let intelligence officials look into commercial transactions worries civil liberties proponents.

"This could be the perfect storm for civil liberties in America," said Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington "The vehicle is the Homeland Security Act, the technology is Darpa and the agency is the F.B.I. The outcome is a system of national surveillance of the American public."

Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld has been briefed on the project by Admiral Poindexter and the two had a lunch to discuss it, according to a Pentagon spokesman.

"As part of our development process, we hope to coordinate with a variety of organizations, to include the law enforcement community," a Pentagon spokeswoman said.

An F.B.I. official, who spoke on the condition that he not be identified, said the bureau had had preliminary discussions with the Pentagon about the project but that no final decision had been made about what information the F.B.I. might add to the system.

A spokesman for the White House Office of Homeland Security, Gordon Johndroe, said officials in the office were not familiar with the computer project and he declined to discuss concerns raised by the project's critics without knowing more about it.

He referred all questions to the Defense Department, where officials said they could not address civil liberties concerns because they too were not familiar enough with the project.

Some members of a panel of computer scientists and policy experts who were asked by the Pentagon to review the privacy implications this summer said terrorists might find ways to avoid detection and that the system might be easily abused.

"A lot of my colleagues are uncomfortable about this and worry about the potential uses that this technology might be put, if not by this administration then by a future one," said Barbara Simon, a computer scientist who is past president of the Association of Computing Machinery. "Once you've got it in place you can't control it."

Other technology policy experts dispute that assessment and support Admiral Poindexter's position that linking of databases is necessary to track potential enemies operating inside the United States.

"They're conceptualizing the problem in the way we've suggested it needs to be understood," said Philip Zelikow, a historian who is executive director of the Markle Foundation task force on National Security in the Information Age. "They have a pretty good vision of the need to make the tradeoffs in favor of more sharing and openness."

On Wednesday morning, the panel reported its findings to Dr. Tony Tether, the director of the defense research agency, urging development of technologies to protect privacy as well as surveillance, according to several people who attended the meeting.

If deployed, civil libertarians argue, the computer system would rapidly bring a surveillance state. They assert that potential terrorists would soon learn how to avoid detection in any case.

The new system will rely on a set of computer-based pattern recognition techniques known as "data mining," a set of statistical techniques used by scientists as well as by marketers searching for potential customers.

The system would permit a team of intelligence analysts to gather and view information from databases, pursue links between individuals and groups, respond to automatic alerts, and share information efficiently, all from their individual computers.

The project calls for the development of a prototype based on test data that would be deployed at the Army Intelligence and Security Command at Fort Belvoir, Va. Officials would not say when the system would be put into operation.

The system is one of a number of projects now under way inside the government to lash together both commercial and government data to hunt for patterns of terrorist activities.

"What we are doing is developing technologies and a prototype system to revolutionize the ability of the United States to detect, classify and identify foreign terrorists, and decipher their plans, and thereby enable the U.S. to take timely action to successfully pre-empt and defeat terrorist acts," said Jan Walker, the spokeswoman for the defense research agency.

Before taking the position at the Pentagon, Admiral Poindexter, who was convicted in 1990 for his role in the Iran-contra affair, had worked as a contractor on one of the projects he now controls. Admiral Poindexter's conviction was reversed in 1991 by a federal appeals court because he had been granted immunity for his testimony before Congress about the case.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinejonas
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Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 499
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1075359 - 11/22/02 12:43 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

I heard about this. Big Brother has gone way too far ... Where will we draw the line? I'm just wondering if our gov't has ever heard of something called The Constitution maybe? Whatever, they could do whatever they wanted and we cant do shit to stop em. They are strong, we are weak. Although, the underdog has done many great things when united and focused ... Ponder that a moment.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: jonas]
    #1075369 - 11/22/02 12:46 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

We still have the right to bear arms... If these things get too out of hand we can still vote from the roof tops...


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1075392 - 11/22/02 12:53 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

We need to write and call our reps immediatly about this. We need to know we won't tolerate this.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Registered: 10/27/02
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1075398 - 11/22/02 12:55 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

The problem isn't so much that the Government is getting out of control, it's that the American people are supportive of these efforts.  I've written countless letters to Congress voicing my concern, yet polls show that the majority of Americans support these new "counter-terrorism" policies.

It's the American people that need to change their attitude.  If they don't, I guess Big Brother takes over.  People (at least a majority of them) seem to be willing to ignore the Constitution in today's climate.  :blush:   


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineMsPacMan
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1075474 - 11/22/02 01:34 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

not only can they monitor every purchase, they can monitor any e-mail, phone conversation, voicemail, internet history, travel record, bank account, credit card purchase; anything they want to, without a warrant or even a reason to. This is all because of the homeland security bullshit.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1076006 - 11/22/02 07:26 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

If you're not afraid enough for your own life to allow yourself to be protected this way then please...

THINK OF THE COWARDS !!!


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OfflineBowlKiller
----
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1076458 - 11/22/02 11:38 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

I dont see why any sane person think that an information dragnet is going to be any more protective than the information dragnet already in place. American people are susceptible to this kind of thinking in the same way the Germans were susceptible to Hitlers views. They thought he was trying to help the country, and he was and he did, but they didnt take things to the final conclusion that dude was trying to go off on the earth. But oh well same thing here really with USA homeland security bullshit. More like homeland prison. I think people just either forget or dont consider how these types of situations get started. I mean on the one hand sure I can see how we need protection and all that to live a good american life, but you really have to ask, what kind of life will I be living? I mean to be quite honest I would rather fight terrorism, than fight a terrorist who is terrorizing me in order to fight another terrorist, who really mainly exists because of the first terrorist.

I always like to include that its ok, its only going to get worse. Eventually you will see somekind of computer generated image weather it be robotics and computers combined or just something generated that will be given a voice, that is it will be given authority and the ability to command actions that will weigh heavily on people, even to death. Then you will know as you already do that its not going to be too long. Dont worry this system is going to collapse. What system, the whole of government around the world.

Not to be morbid, its just a fact.


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1076502 - 11/22/02 12:11 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

Get rid of this, fight the damn Patriot act..... Then you can feel better.

Anyone who likes these types of actions that government says is doing to protect its citizens should laugh. Look at Israel, they do phone taps anytime they feel like it, go into any home for no good reason, etc....

They can't stop terrorism completely, neither can the US or any country.. Taking away your rights and privacy is certainly not a solution..

Bush is taking advantage of the fear of the american people.. He's a dirty man!


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1076533 - 11/22/02 12:21 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

Wierd. Last week you were thanking the lord that the republicans now had total control of congress. With republican control there'll be no problem whatsoever passing the legislation to bring this into effect.

I knew it would all end in tears.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Xlea321]
    #1076615 - 11/22/02 12:50 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

All this will only become worse under Republican control. This is the doing of the conservatives, who Rail Gun and Invertigo seem to be a big fan of. Well what do you think now?


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InvisibleFrog31337
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1076682 - 11/22/02 01:17 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

I have also written several letters to my reps letting them know my concern. The more people that I talk to the more I find that follow my ideas. Who are these people that think all these new measures are a GOOD thing? The few supporters I have found are lost in la la land and don't care one way or the other, but support Bush because he is the president.


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Offlinejonas
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: MsPacMan]
    #1076902 - 11/22/02 02:48 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

This has nothing to do with "homeland security" at all. Big Brother tries to mask their dishonorable acts with a benevolent title. "Homeland security" is simply a term used to mask simply "spying on the american public". I think we all know why the want to spy on us, its very obvious. Its so they can compile lists of people to moniter, and its not for terrorism, thats for shit sure. These lists are much like those compiled at pro-pot rallies, they're used to unjustly persecute people for crimes they have not committed. If they really wanted to combat terrorism, they could do it just fine the way things are. Its not that they dont have enough information or proper ways of collecting information, its that they take everything lightly and brush off important things. We all know they knew about the 9/11 attacks prior to them actually occuring, they even admitted it. They just brushed it off when they heard it. We know that this "homeland security" bullshit is infact, bullshit. As some others said, we're going to need to fight back eventually. I'm not saying we take up arms and launch a fullscale rebellion, but, we must fight back in one way or another. Its very good that many of you write letters to reps and such, but we must change the minds of the ignorant, those who blindly follow the gov't in all their endevours. It is time that the people truely rule for and by the people ...


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OfflineLarrythescaryrexS
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1076909 - 11/22/02 02:50 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

I am waiting for the morale monitors to show up.


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RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1076939 - 11/22/02 03:02 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

All this will only become worse under Republican control. This is the doing of the conservatives, who Rail Gun and Invertigo seem to be a big fan of. Well what do you think now?

It's all gone a little quiet. Seems like you hit a raw nerve...


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineTheHobbit
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Xlea321]
    #1076964 - 11/22/02 03:19 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

It's all so fuckin' bizarre, I really can't understand why the fuck anyone cares what anyone else is doing in the privacy of their own home anyway? Ralph Nader, help!!!! (You know, the guy the fucks wouldn't even debate because he simply knows too much about what they're really up too).


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Xlea321]
    #1077119 - 11/22/02 04:28 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

So it would appear that you think conservatives must like EVERYTHING the government does?

I don't like this and I'd still vote the same and am still happy about the results of the last election. This doesn't mean that I'll praise every move a conservative government makes.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/23/00
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1077493 - 11/22/02 07:21 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Hey thanks for all of you that voted for the Republicans. NOw we have a lot to look forward to! I dont understand what is more important, our rights, or the other bullshit reasons that caused you to vote Republican. So Invert, RailGun, where you at? Let's give a round of applause to all who voted Republican! Yea!


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by cit [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1077515 - 11/22/02 07:32 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Yeah, things are changing fast.  The police state is moving in. 
:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
     
:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
  :frown: 


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Pentagon to moniter every purchase made by citizen [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1077585 - 11/22/02 08:05 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

This is something that has even conservatives spooked. Here's a recent NY Times editorial from William Safire:

November 14, 2002
You Are a Suspect
By WILLIAM SAFIRE


ASHINGTON — If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you:

Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database."

To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you — passport application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the F.B.I., your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance — and you have the supersnoop's dream: a "Total Information Awareness" about every U.S. citizen.

This is not some far-out Orwellian scenario. It is what will happen to your personal freedom in the next few weeks if John Poindexter gets the unprecedented power he seeks.

Remember Poindexter? Brilliant man, first in his class at the Naval Academy, later earned a doctorate in physics, rose to national security adviser under President Ronald Reagan. He had this brilliant idea of secretly selling missiles to Iran to pay ransom for hostages, and with the illicit proceeds to illegally support contras in Nicaragua.

A jury convicted Poindexter in 1990 on five felony counts of misleading Congress and making false statements, but an appeals court overturned the verdict because Congress had given him immunity for his testimony. He famously asserted, "The buck stops here," arguing that the White House staff, and not the president, was responsible for fateful decisions that might prove embarrassing.

This ring-knocking master of deceit is back again with a plan even more scandalous than Iran-contra. He heads the "Information Awareness Office" in the otherwise excellent Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which spawned the Internet and stealth aircraft technology. Poindexter is now realizing his 20-year dream: getting the "data-mining" power to snoop on every public and private act of every American.

Even the hastily passed U.S.A. Patriot Act, which widened the scope of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and weakened 15 privacy laws, raised requirements for the government to report secret eavesdropping to Congress and the courts. But Poindexter's assault on individual privacy rides roughshod over such oversight.

He is determined to break down the wall between commercial snooping and secret government intrusion. The disgraced admiral dismisses such necessary differentiation as bureaucratic "stovepiping." And he has been given a $200 million budget to create computer dossiers on 300 million Americans.

When George W. Bush was running for president, he stood foursquare in defense of each person's medical, financial and communications privacy. But Poindexter, whose contempt for the restraints of oversight drew the Reagan administration into its most serious blunder, is still operating on the presumption that on such a sweeping theft of privacy rights, the buck ends with him and not with the president.

This time, however, he has been seizing power in the open. In the past week John Markoff of The Times, followed by Robert O'Harrow of The Washington Post, have revealed the extent of Poindexter's operation, but editorialists have not grasped its undermining of the Freedom of Information Act.

Political awareness can overcome "Total Information Awareness," the combined force of commercial and government snooping. In a similar overreach, Attorney General Ashcroft tried his Terrorism Information and Prevention System (TIPS), but public outrage at the use of gossips and postal workers as snoops caused the House to shoot it down. The Senate should now do the same to this other exploitation of fear.

The Latin motto over Poindexter"s new Pentagon office reads "Scientia Est Potentia" — "knowledge is power." Exactly: the government's infinite knowledge about you is its power over you. "We're just as concerned as the next person with protecting privacy," this brilliant mind blandly assured The Post. A jury found he spoke falsely before.



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