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Offlinecne9999
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A real ODD-BALL * 1
    #10752928 - 07/28/09 12:25 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Hello Everyone,

I have a possible VERY ODD contamination story.  Or if I am lucky maybe what I see is simply a mutation.  I was hoping someone here could help, or has seen this before, or maybe identify, or maybe even suggest something.

It is odd as you will see.  I have a P.C.Alacabenzi case in progress.  It is on its second flush.  First flush was OK, just adequate.  This flush is just starting nicely with a couple of FAT early risers.  This possible contam occurred in the same location on the first flush as well.  It also appears to be synchronized with the P.C.Alacabenzi.

The casing is 1½” fine to medium verm with, my cake crumbled on top, ¼ inch to ½ inch horse manure mulch mixed with a bit of hydrated lime to balance the PH a bit.  I cooked the shit out of the manure.  I cooked, rehydrated and cooked again.  Call me anal.  Because then I prepped with H2O2 / H20 (20:1).  I do this with my bagged manure because I simply don’t trust it.  This contam may be why.

So here is the story.  About two or three days into the first flush pinning these strange looking shrooms popped up in one corner of my case.  The rest of the case ran perfectly for the first flush.  All the shrooms were very consistent in speed, color, shape, size, and even the prints were really nice.  But these little buggers, that look like nothing I’ve ever seen came up, about 4 of them in a little cluster.  See the pictures.  The little cluster on the left is what I am talking about the larger cluster on the right is the P.C. Ala’s. 

These tiny thin little odd-balls matured in the first flush within 10 hours then de-veiled and wilted to literally nothing before I could grab them.  I mean they wilted to about the size of a fine thread.  The heads just about turned to a mini watery shell of what they were while growing.  They are dark gray with a hint of the golden color of the Ala’s but their size, shape, behavior, and the way they wilted are just too odd for me to sit by and ignore. 

So now comes the second flush; the exact same mutant or contam comes up in the same place.

Please take a look at the pictures and let me know if you’ve ever seen something like this.  I hope they are clear enough for any of you to see.

I would hate to toss the case, it’s only halfway into its second flush.  I've had and seen contams before but not like this.  : (

CNE9999



--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
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OfflineTheMushaman
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: cne9999]
    #10753021 - 07/28/09 12:50 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Those aren't cube mutants. They appear to be a whole different species of mushroom. Where did you get the spores?


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The messages and posts submitted by this user are purely hypothetical and intended for educational/entertainment purposes only. The above user does not advocate any illegal activities or substances. However, the user feels that proper education and awareness is needed in all aspects of life. This user is open to intelligent discourse and any variety of topics, but only for educational/research purposes and to expand the awareness of others. Freedom is a beautiful thing, but can only be obtained through elevated awareness. Simply put, free thy mind and thy ass shall surely follow.


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Offlinecne9999
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: TheMushaman]
    #10753035 - 07/28/09 12:52 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I got them online through sporebank.com. 

So I am not crazy.  They do look odd. 

Any idea what they might be?  Do you think the cubes in the rest of the case would be OK?

I'm just confused.  :cool:


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!


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OfflineTheMushaman
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: cne9999]
    #10753041 - 07/28/09 12:54 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Rest of the cubes will be fine. They just have a little competition which would explain your less than ideal first flush. Might want to try to get an ID from the hunting forum. Don't even think about eating them till you know what they are. Your Cubes will be fine though, they look great. Are you making prints? I'd love one if are :smile:


--------------------
The messages and posts submitted by this user are purely hypothetical and intended for educational/entertainment purposes only. The above user does not advocate any illegal activities or substances. However, the user feels that proper education and awareness is needed in all aspects of life. This user is open to intelligent discourse and any variety of topics, but only for educational/research purposes and to expand the awareness of others. Freedom is a beautiful thing, but can only be obtained through elevated awareness. Simply put, free thy mind and thy ass shall surely follow.


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Offlinecne9999
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: TheMushaman]
    #10753085 - 07/28/09 01:06 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I did some basic searching online via Google and some sites I frequent but nothing so far.  I will look in the hunting forum like you said.  Thanks for the good suggestion.

And yes, I make at least three prints on every flush of every strain I grow.  I have dozens and dozens of vials saved.  But I scrape them into 20cc sterile vials and store those in a vacuum container for when I need some syringes.  I have about 7 or 8 strains saved up and this one was a new one for me.  : )

I can send you a nice print, no problems.  If you can send me a mailing address via this board I’ll be glad to send you a nice print for the assistance and suggestion.  : )


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!


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OfflineTheMushaman
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: cne9999]
    #10753099 - 07/28/09 01:11 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Sending PM, thanks man. I've always wondered about that variety.


--------------------
The messages and posts submitted by this user are purely hypothetical and intended for educational/entertainment purposes only. The above user does not advocate any illegal activities or substances. However, the user feels that proper education and awareness is needed in all aspects of life. This user is open to intelligent discourse and any variety of topics, but only for educational/research purposes and to expand the awareness of others. Freedom is a beautiful thing, but can only be obtained through elevated awareness. Simply put, free thy mind and thy ass shall surely follow.


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Offlinecne9999
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: TheMushaman]
    #10753203 - 07/28/09 01:48 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

It seems to be a nice strain.  Big pins, nice fruits.  And it seems to have really spread nicely in my large casing.  My casing is 12 inches X 6 Inches and I used only one half pint jar to colonize it.  It took about two weeks to pin after that but it's a large tray so... 

You'll like them.  :thumbup:


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!


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OfflineBrennus
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: cne9999]
    #10753469 - 07/28/09 03:11 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Your tub is contaminated with a Coprinus species, also known as Inky Caps. They pop up and the fruits liquefy into goo as a means of sporulation within 24 hours.

You probably didn't pasteurize correctly. Was the manure field aged? Did you pasteurize with hot water or dry heat?


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Offlinecne9999
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: Brennus]
    #10753480 - 07/28/09 03:20 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Hot water, twice.  The manure was purchased in a retail bag from Home Depot.

I was planning on using dried pellets of manure from here: http://www.mycosupply.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=DHYM01

But it didn't come in time. 

Thank you for the reply.  I will be looking up that species.

Do I need to dump my case?  Can I just cut out that corner or half and pray they don;t show up again?


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!


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OfflineBrennus
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: cne9999]
    #10753498 - 07/28/09 03:35 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cne9999 said:
Hot water, twice.  The manure was purchased in a retail bag from Home Depot.

I was planning on using dried pellets of manure from here: http://www.mycosupply.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=DHYM01

But it didn't come in time. 

Thank you for the reply.  I will be looking up that species.

Do I need to dump my case?  Can I just cut out that corner or half and pray they don;t show up again?




'Hot water, twice' isn't really a viable pasteurization method. You need to have a meat thermometer jammed in your substrate and make sure the temperatures stay around 160 degrees Fahrenheit for 90 - 120 minutes.

Honestly, if your cubes are fruiting, I would leave it alone. Cutting out a corner of your substrate won't do anything - Coprinus mycelium has already colonized parts of your tub.


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Offlinecne9999
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: Brennus]
    #10753513 - 07/28/09 03:42 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I did 165 for 90 minutes.  And I did this twice.  Once when I opened the bag and again when I actually started prepping my casings the next day.  I thought it was pretty thorough and I've been successful many times before.  It felt like something was wrong because the fruits weren’t as robust as I was expecting based on what I heard about the Alacabenzi strain.

I did look up the Coprinus species.  It does look like some of them I saw but much smaller and thinner.  I will keep looking and it does sound like you are absolutely right.

Thanks again.  And I will keep the tray until its done.  Hopefully I can get something worthwhile out of it without these things taking over.


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecne9999
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: cne9999]
    #10758115 - 07/28/09 09:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I followed a tek (I can’t remember the link but I will try to post it sometime soon) that prescribes you hot water pasteurize once at 165 for 60 minutes.  This kills most organisms.  Then you let it sit a day.  The remaining organisms, if any, being to sprout.  Then you pasteurize again at 165 degrees.  This second one kills the newly hatched organisms.    The tek even says you do it a third time.  I only do it twice.

It has worked very well for me in the past.  But these little buggers must have survived the double kill. 

Maybe I will go to a triple kill like the tek I read says.  Or find a new vendor for my hourse and cow manure.  :grin:


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrennus
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: cne9999]
    #10760783 - 07/29/09 09:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

cne9999 said:
I followed a tek (I can�t remember the link but I will try to post it sometime soon) that prescribes you hot water pasteurize once at 165 for 60 minutes.  This kills most organisms.  Then you let it sit a day.  The remaining organisms, if any, being to sprout.  Then you pasteurize again at 165 degrees.  This second one kills the newly hatched organisms.    The tek even says you do it a third time.  I only do it twice.

It has worked very well for me in the past.  But these little buggers must have survived the double kill. 

Maybe I will go to a triple kill like the tek I read says.  Or find a new vendor for my hourse and cow manure.  :grin:




I mix my bulk substrate in a mesh painter's bag, tie off the top, and drop it in a bucket. I dump several pots of boiling water in, stick a meat thermometer into the bag, and close up the bucket. Then I put a towel over the bucket to insulate and check to ensure the temperatures remain between 160 - 180 degrees F for 90 minutes. Work fine for me.


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Offlinecne9999
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Re: A real ODD-BALL [Re: Brennus]
    #10764060 - 07/29/09 07:43 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

That's pretty much the way I do it.  Except I do it for 60 minutes twice, sometimes 90 minutes twice.

I use a slow cooker most of the time though.  I get the water to around 165 and go for it.  The slow cooker keeps a nice even temp for as log as I like.  Once the middle of the material reaches 165 I hit the timer.  It also fits one tray of substraight nearly perfectly for me, at least with the smaller trays I use.  I put the material to be pasteurized in a doubled up cheese cloth bag.

So basically my method is in the same ballpark.


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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