Home | Community | Message Board

World Seed Supply
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: THC Titan]
    #10732300 - 07/24/09 01:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Obama made a mistake calling the police stupid and I think he knows this. It will be interesting to see if he has the integrity to admit it and apologize for making a damning public comment about something he "[doesn't know about], not having been there and not seeing all the facts".

--

CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN)  -- President Obama should apologize to members of the Cambridge Police Department for saying they acted stupidly, the president of the city's police union said Friday.

Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, said at a news conference that Obama should not have criticized officers' actions in last week's arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr.

Sgt. James Crowley, the officer who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, has previously said he was dismayed by the president's remarks and that Obama had offended police in Cambridge and elsewhere.

"I was a little surprised and disappointed that the president, who didn't have all of the facts by his own admission, then weighed in on the events of that night and made a comment that really offended not just officers in the Cambridge Police Department but officers around the country," Crowley told CNN affiliate WHDH-TV in Boston.

Obama, however, stood by his comment, saying he is "surprised by the controversy surrounding" it.

"I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama told ABC's "Nightline."

When Obama waded into the story by answering a question about it during his news conference Wednesday night, he admitted that he "may be a little biased" because Gates is a friend.

"I don't know all the facts," he also conceded.

He said he did not know what role race played, but "the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home."

Crowley, in the police report about the incident, said Gates refused to cooperate with him and repeatedly accusing him of racism when he went to Gates' home following a report of a possible break-in July 16.

Crowley said he tried to determine whether there was someone else at the home and wanted to ensure Gates' safety.

Gates, however, told him "that I had no idea who I was 'messing' with" and was being so loud that he could not give pertinent information to the department when he was calling in, the sergeant said.

Authorities have said they may release tapes of the officer calling in, in which Gates is heard in the background

Crowley's report said that when he asked to speak with Gates outside, the professor at one point responded, "I'll speak with your mama outside."

Gates' attorney, Charles Ogletree, said the professor never made such a remark.

The full story will show that Gates did nothing wrong -- and that Crowley did not identify himself at first, Ogletree said.

Gates said Wednesday he would listen to Crowley "if he would tell the truth about what he did, about the distortions that he fabricated in the police report. I would be prepared as a human being to forgive him."

Crowley has said he will not apologize. The police incident report states that Crowley twice provided his name to Gates, who subsequently asked for it two more times.

Gates ultimately was arrested for disorderly conduct, but the department later dropped the charges.

Cambridge police Commissioner Robert Haas said he "deeply regrets" the arrest but stands by the procedures his department followed.

"I trust [Crowley's] judgment implicitly. He is a stellar officer," Haas said.

He added the department is "very proud about its diversity within this community and how hard we've worked over the years to build a strong, solid relationship [between] the department and the community."

Haas said he agreed with Crowley about Obama's remarks.

"I have to tell you the officers take that very personally and basically feel hurt by that comment. We truly are trying to do the best service we can to the community and sometimes we make mistakes. We're human. But we learn from those mistakes and we move on," he said.

Numerous police officers, including African-Americans, have spoken up on Crowley's behalf and portrayed him as a good and fair officer. Crowley, who is white, had once been chosen by a black police officer to teach a police academy course on ways to avoid racial profiling.

Obama said he had heard of Crowley's record, saying, "I don't know all the extenuating circumstances, and as I said, I respect what police officers do. From what I can tell, the sergeant who was involved is an outstanding police officer, but my suspicion is probably it would have been better if cooler heads prevailed."

Gates' legal team argues that authorities are misrepresenting the professor and the officer, and Gates has said he is determined to keep the issue alive despite the charges being dropped.

"This is not about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," he said this week.

Ogletree said Gates might sue the department and would bring forward witnesses who say they've had similar experiences with Crowley.

When asked for examples, Ogletree said only that they may come out in time depending on how the police department handles the situation moving forward.

"I think you will be hearing much more complex and different perspective on him [Crowley] in the coming days and weeks," Ogletree said, alleging that Crowley "is well-known among people, particularly young people, for some of his police practices."

CNN


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineTHC Titan
Spoonman
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Diploid]
    #10732397 - 07/24/09 01:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You'd think a black Harvard professor of all people would recognize the importance of interacting with the police in a lawful, considerate way.

Fuck tha po-lice


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Diploid]
    #10732449 - 07/24/09 01:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Obama made a mistake calling the police stupid and I think he knows this. It will be interesting to see if he has the integrity to admit it and apologize for making a damning public comment about something he "[doesn't know about], not having been there and not seeing all the facts".







i seriously doubt Obama will apologize for StupidGate.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: THC Titan]
    #10732453 - 07/24/09 01:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
You'd think a black Harvard professor of all people would recognize the importance of interacting with the police in a lawful, considerate way.

Fuck tha po-lice




Palin/Crowley 2012 :grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10732571 - 07/24/09 02:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

A black Harvard professor of African American Grievances also recognizes how easy it is to get recognized just by screaming "RACE" in a crowded theater and just how many assholes will buy into it right away, which said group of assholes now, unfortunately, includes the President of Whitey Sucks. 

I think it was Ann Althouse who asked about the ID he initially showed.  If it was a college ID it would have his picture but not his address.  Since the issue in question was whether it was his house, that ID is clearly inadequate.  Unless you make a class judgment that all Harvard professors are above question, which seemed to be where Gates' "do you know who I am" moment came from.  The man is quite clearly an asshole.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10732610 - 07/24/09 02:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

“There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.”

- Booker T. Washington


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10732636 - 07/24/09 02:23 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yep. it was Ann Althouse and she found an answer.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/07/whats-missing-from-this-nyt-article.html

Quote:

If the ID did not show the address of the house that had been broken into, then Crowley's continuing investigation into whether Gates really lived there was perfectly reasonable. (Or do you — did Gates? — think that affiliation with Harvard University should end the matter?) Moreover, Gates's belligerence and presentation of himself as a person too important to be questioned should have heightened Crowley's suspicion that Gates didn't live there. While a person who really lived in the house might get outraged, many — I think most — would respect the need to make sure that there was no crime in progress and quickly find something in the house — such as an addressed envelope — that connected the name to the address.




And:

Quote:

ADDED: In this radio interview, Crowley — at around 6:30 — says that he was shown only a Harvard ID, which had no no address and that an ID with an address "would have been helpful." Thanks to commenter Mike for pointing me there. Bearbee, the commenter, points me to Gates's interview with his daughter, in which Gates says:

    ... I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him.

So there is a real factual dispute here. (Also: My lawyer's eye catches the phrase "my address" and makes me want to ask the follow up: "By 'my address,' do you mean the address of the house Crowley was questioning you about?")




Gates at one point tries to assert membership in a priveleged clas, Harvard professors, while almost immediately after tries to claim persecution as a member of a victim class.  The guy is clearly one of the all time assholes right up there with Al Sharpton.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineCoaster
Baʿal
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 10 years, 16 days
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10733717 - 07/24/09 05:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Obama called the officer on the phone
and Obama said by talking to him over the phone he could tell he was a good person
thats BS the cop was obviously just being nice
and Obama just apologized people


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineTaco Chef
I found dead John Cheever
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 33,222
Loc: the city of dis
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Coaster]
    #10733743 - 07/24/09 05:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i don't care if your D or R, the village media sucks.


--------------------





Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Coaster]
    #10733775 - 07/24/09 05:50 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

he did the right thing.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineTaco Chef
I found dead John Cheever
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 33,222
Loc: the city of dis
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10733869 - 07/24/09 06:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------





Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 4 months, 16 days
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Coaster]
    #10735137 - 07/24/09 10:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

> and Obama said by talking to him over the phone he could tell he was a good person

"I looked the man in the eye. I was able to get a sense of his soul."
"I talked to him over the phone.  I could tell he was a good person."

... and yet we keep electing these idiots.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Seuss]
    #10735356 - 07/24/09 11:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I can't understand the posters here who are criticizing the man for not talking to the police.


He was on his property and had every right to ignore them.  I would have done the same.


Sounds like bullying and bullshit from the police, based on what I've seen hear.  Sounds like they percipitate a situation and then overreact to it.  If it was neccesary to cite him for disorderly conduct, then whatever, but it certainly seems the repsonse was poor.


Whether he was obligated to identify himself or not, likely he was, he still should not have to.  I would also have told the police to leave my property. 


The police seem to cause more harm than good all the times I've seen them act.  It certainly seems that they are worse than the criminals as far as their affect on me and those I've seen interact with them, and in that regard they need a serious change.  Seems like many areas have far too many police if they have the resources to enforce their ego rather than the law.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibledanielx
whatup!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10735503 - 07/24/09 11:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I can't understand the posters here who are criticizing the man for not talking to the police.


He was on his property and had every right to ignore them.  I would have done the same.


Sounds like bullying and bullshit from the police, based on what I've seen hear.  Sounds like they percipitate a situation and then overreact to it.  If it was neccesary to cite him for disorderly conduct, then whatever, but it certainly seems the repsonse was poor.


Whether he was obligated to identify himself or not, likely he was, he still should not have to.  I would also have told the police to leave my property. 


The police seem to cause more harm than good all the times I've seen them act.  It certainly seems that they are worse than the criminals as far as their affect on me and those I've seen interact with them, and in that regard they need a serious change.  Seems like many areas have far too many police if they have the resources to enforce their ego rather than the law.




while I agree with some of your points like the police cause more harm than good. I don't agree with your main point. Its not like the police were just cruising looking for someone to harass, they got a call of burglary. they aren't just going to leave because the guy claims he lives there.


--------------------
Long live kratom :kratom:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: danielx]
    #10736041 - 07/25/09 01:29 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well I don't really know if I agree with your assesment or not, I'd need to learn more about this, butthe fact that they arrested the man seems quite suspect.


At the point they were aware of who he was, it does indeed seem that if he wants them to leave that is his right, burglars or not.  They can sit on the street and figure out what to do, but to stay on his porch, if this is what they did, seems improper.


Then, they arrest him.  Why?  Would a citation not have sufficed if he was causing trouble?  Considering they knew who he was, what would arrest accomplish?  The charges reamined the same, and he was on his own property, so I can't see what arrest would do but reinforce a police officer's ego.


Once the property owner says leave, the police need to make a decision whether they have cause to stay and communicate that decision.  Given they likely had no excusable cause to be in the house, nor on the property, when the guy said GTFO, they needed to leave.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Obama: Police who arrested professor 'acted stupidly' [Re: Taco Chef]
    #10736467 - 07/25/09 03:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

novumorganum said:
they all look the same


who all looks the same?





neighbors


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10737201 - 07/25/09 11:07 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I can't understand the posters here who are criticizing the man for not talking to the police.


He was on his property and had every right to ignore them.  I would have done the same.


Sounds like bullying and bullshit from the police, based on what I've seen hear.  Sounds like they percipitate a situation and then overreact to it.  If it was neccesary to cite him for disorderly conduct, then whatever, but it certainly seems the repsonse was poor.


Whether he was obligated to identify himself or not, likely he was, he still should not have to.  I would also have told the police to leave my property. 


The police seem to cause more harm than good all the times I've seen them act.  It certainly seems that they are worse than the criminals as far as their affect on me and those I've seen interact with them, and in that regard they need a serious change.  Seems like many areas have far too many police if they have the resources to enforce their ego rather than the law.




Granted.  However, I think it makes sense though, when police get a call of a house being burglarized, that they would check to make sure the occupants live there.  I don't comprehend how why would think that a potential burglar should not have to identify himself.  If this was the case, burglars would have no fear of getting caught when breaking into others homes, when the owner are not present.  Furthermore, Gates didn't even own the house; he was a renter, so it was possible his neighbors didn't even know who he was.

Now, I don't know whether he should have been arrested.  He recently got off a long flight and found himself locked out of his house.  I would probably be irritated if a cop came to my house right after I had just entered.  However, what upsets me is that Gates is claiming racism, when the behavior he exhibited is disgusting.

Furthermore, if you read the police report, you would see that even after Gates had verbally abused the cop for a while.  Even after Gates insulted the cop's mother, the police officer was walking away to leave the scene.  However, even as he was walking away, Gates still continued to berate him. 

Cops overstep their bounds everyday, and try to take advantage of US citizens; however, I don't think that this was the case here.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10737401 - 07/25/09 12:11 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I can't understand the posters here who are criticizing the man for not talking to the police.


He was on his property and had every right to ignore them.  I would have done the same.




The officer was responding to a report of a burglary in progress.  A witness reported unknown persons breaking into a house.  Is he supposed to ignore that?  Your position is ridiculous and dangerous for children and other people.
Quote:




Sounds like bullying and bullshit from the police, based on what I've seen hear.  Sounds like they percipitate a situation and then overreact to it.  If it was neccesary to cite him for disorderly conduct, then whatever, but it certainly seems the repsonse was poor.




No it was bullying and bullshit from a professional race baiting asshole.
Quote:




Whether he was obligated to identify himself or not, likely he was, he still should not have to.  I would also have told the police to leave my property.




Then you are very foolish.  What if I break into your house while you are there.  The cops come.  I have you tied up in the closet.  I tell the cops it's my house and they can fuck off.  They leave.  I sodomize you with a flashlight.  I wonder how you would feel about what the cops should do then.
Quote:

 


The police seem to cause more harm than good all the times I've seen them act.  It certainly seems that they are worse than the criminals as far as their affect on me and those I've seen interact with them, and in that regard they need a serious change.  Seems like many areas have far too many police if they have the resources to enforce their ego rather than the law.




You have unfortunate experiences but, then again, your aforementioned attitude to how they should respond to a reported break-in is so far beyond rational as to call into question any statement you might make regarding proper police behavior.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10737570 - 07/25/09 12:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Whether he was obligated to identify himself or not, likely he was, he still should not have to.

You haven't thought this through, I think. Nobody should have to identify themselves to the police when there's a reported break-in? Are you serious?

I think that if a couple of black guys had broken into that house and the police didn't ask them to identify themselves after they claimed to live there, we'd be reading a thread about white police inaction because it was a black guy's house that was broken into.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Diploid]
    #10737804 - 07/25/09 01:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I think people should have to tug their forelock when they speak to a cop.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Police Arrest Girl for Having Scissors in Backpack
( 1 2 all )
Ravus 1,401 21 12/14/04 06:24 PM
by AlteredReality
* Defending the patriot act
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
fadedpinkwings 5,288 93 02/27/03 03:56 PM
by Rono
* US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests
( 1 2 3 4 all )
pattern 6,138 66 03/24/03 01:19 AM
by Xlea321
* Police basically...
( 1 2 all )
Cracka_X 1,715 22 05/15/03 09:35 PM
by atomikfunksoldier
* A Patriot Speaks About The 'Patriot' Act Autonomous 1,059 10 09/24/03 07:59 PM
by Le_Canard
* Patriot Act 2, more plans for a police state Ellis Dee 1,701 16 02/26/03 07:19 PM
by ClosetCase
* Anarchists being harrased y police/ May Day Riots PGF 1,491 3 06/04/02 10:49 AM
by hongomon
* Police shoot demonstrators mm. 2,422 15 10/12/18 08:26 PM
by christopera

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
9,496 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.038 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 18 queries.