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OverdoseLiving
Get 2 Give



Registered: 03/22/09
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Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs?
#10729291 - 07/23/09 08:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I guess my question is, how anonymous are we on the shroomery?
-------------------- Mi Vida Loco
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: OverdoseLiving]
#10729489 - 07/23/09 08:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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not very, your IP is logged along with each login and your username. THey can easily put this information together.
Shroomery is indexed by search engines too, in other words, don't put anything up here your not willing to be easily findable through a google search.
How safe the shroomery is against being hacked, and how often these logs are cleared on the other hand is beyond me.
peace
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: supra]
#10729511 - 07/23/09 09:01 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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They don't need to hack it, they can get a warrant. Ythan would resist all the way up until the judge asks "How does your client plead?", and then he'd tell his lawyer they are giving in. Or depending on how the server is managed, Ythan may not even be consulted.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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OverdoseLiving
Get 2 Give



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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Doc_T]
#10729578 - 07/23/09 09:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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So the feds would need a warrant to get our info from the shroomery?
I wonder if this has ever happend before?
-------------------- Mi Vida Loco
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: OverdoseLiving]
#10729614 - 07/23/09 09:17 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
OverdoseLiving said: So the feds would need a warrant to get our info from the shroomery?
I wonder if this has ever happend before?
legally yes, if the owner does not hand it over willingly, they would need a warrant to go 'take' it.
However, this does not mean that some crazy NSAish type unit is not going to hack in and get all this info forcefully...But it also does not mean they are even trying or can...
peace
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Denisius
Comrade


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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: OverdoseLiving]
#10730006 - 07/23/09 10:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
OverdoseLiving said: So the feds would need a warrant to get our info from the shroomery?
I wonder if this has ever happend before?
Not entirely true. If the server is not located in the US but rather in another country, depending on the laws of that country getting the logs might either take years, or not be possible at all.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10730053 - 07/23/09 10:24 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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^^^ true.
And/or they could hack it. There's some good hackers working for the government.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Doc_T]
#10730454 - 07/23/09 11:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
And/or they could hack it. There's some good hackers working for the government.
Hacking websites is not what the US government does.
The information is all there in plain text, no need to hack anything.
They could sniff packets to get pm's, but why?
There are no big traffickers here and the government doesn't get in the way of free speech very often.
There are lots of drug web sites, I am sure the government finds them vaguely amusing but they seem to have a very hands off approach.
Assume that all the plaintext you send is being recorded, posts indexed by google, etc. If you want anonymity use tor or a open wireless network. If you don't want people reading your PM's use encrypted PM's.
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supra
computerEnthusiast
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10733258 - 07/24/09 02:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Denisius said:
Quote:
OverdoseLiving said: So the feds would need a warrant to get our info from the shroomery?
I wonder if this has ever happend before?
Not entirely true. If the server is not located in the US but rather in another country, depending on the laws of that country getting the logs might either take years, or not be possible at all.
the servers for shroomery are located within the continental US.
peace
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Prof. Astro
acirebma

Registered: 04/15/08
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#10734037 - 07/24/09 04:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Alan makes a good point, the large traffickers are not shroomery members or people who would be willing to divulge information about their work to anyone.
--------------------
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OverdoseLiving
Get 2 Give



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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Prof. Astro]
#10736353 - 07/25/09 12:45 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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How can your encrypt youe PM's?
-------------------- Mi Vida Loco
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SuperD
Cacti junky



Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: OverdoseLiving]
#10736410 - 07/25/09 01:02 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
OverdoseLiving said: How can your encrypt youe PM's?
There's an checkbox under your user settings to turn on encrypted PMs, but you need to be a Shroomery supporter to use that feature.
--------------------
   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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OverdoseLiving
Get 2 Give



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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Prof. Astro]
#10736500 - 07/25/09 01:33 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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How can your encrypt your PM's?
-------------------- Mi Vida Loco
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: SuperD]
#10736503 - 07/25/09 01:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
There's an checkbox under your user settings to turn on encrypted PMs, but you need to be a Shroomery supporter to use that feature.
Nah, its available to everyone. It uses strong encryption.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4276278#4276278
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Denisius
Comrade


Registered: 05/15/09
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: supra]
#10736879 - 07/25/09 05:41 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
supra said:
the servers for shroomery are located within the continental US.
peace
Then perhaps they should be moved elsewhere.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10736892 - 07/25/09 06:04 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Denisius said:
Quote:
supra said:
the servers for shroomery are located within the continental US.
peace
Then perhaps they should be moved elsewhere. 
No way. We are using the site to talk about something- that's more legal in the US than anywhere in the world.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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OverdoseLiving
Get 2 Give



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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Doc_T]
#10736901 - 07/25/09 06:10 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah but I mean, its possible for the police to use shit against people.
-------------------- Mi Vida Loco
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Denisius
Comrade


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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Doc_T]
#10736937 - 07/25/09 06:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: No way. We are using the site to talk about something- that's more legal in the US than anywhere in the world.
Up until the feds take notice.
Moving the servers to another country would simply mean that all of us shroomeries will be able to sleep better at night.
Why take the risk, when moving the servers to another country would not cost any more (And possibly will cost even less than it does now) and will be relatively fast?
Just take Hushmail for example. It was considered to be secure, yet when the feds wanted and supinated the communications between two members, it had no chance but to give them up.
If on the other hand their servers were located not in the states but elswhere, that would not have happened.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10736942 - 07/25/09 06:41 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Feds can acquire and use data from foreign servers just as easily, maybe more easily, as from a US server. That's all I'm saying here.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Denisius
Comrade


Registered: 05/15/09
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Doc_T]
#10736947 - 07/25/09 06:43 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: Feds can acquire and use data from foreign servers just as easily, maybe more easily, as from a US server. That's all I'm saying here.
Not true. I'm not an expert on the issue, but from what I understand they have to go through both international law and the specific laws of that country.
If the administrators of the Shroomery chooses to transfer it to a country that has strict laws against such things, it would be practically impossible for the feds to do that.
The feds don't have world-wide jurisdiction, they are limited to the laws of other countries.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Doc_T]
#10736962 - 07/25/09 06:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: Feds can acquire and use data from foreign servers just as easily, maybe more easily, as from a US server. That's all I'm saying here.
Depending on the country, I would think so too.
And we have far more first amendment rights in the US than the vast majority of countries, including western liberal democracies.
And I doubt moving the server would really matter so much. The US courts still have jurisdiction over the administrators in the US, so they just subpoena them. Additionally, any documents on computers int eh US would be subject to process directly, regardless of where the master stuff is kept.
They could just make an admin testify (or use that as a threat) by subpoenaing them instead of the documents. What I'm unsure of is if their are no documents in the country whether subpoenaing the administrator to testify could compell him to access the documents and provide them, but I'm guessing it could. Anyways, I'm guessing someone in the US would have copies or get the data at somepoint anyways, and even just be accessing the server logs (thus bringing the data into the US) the data would again be subject to US subpoena, so it likely isn't a big difference.
Anyways, it somewhat troubling that their is no schedule to delete logs and that you pretty much have to give them your IP at some point, as I believe most proxies are blocked for new posters, but it is their site. Additionally, since we can't verify anyways, its better that they are open and honest (cuz its their call anyways) then just making claims of regular deleting that are false or not diligently followed.
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OverdoseLiving
Get 2 Give



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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10737054 - 07/25/09 07:49 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Denisius said:
Quote:
Doc_T said: No way. We are using the site to talk about something- that's more legal in the US than anywhere in the world.
Up until the feds take notice.
Moving the servers to another country would simply mean that all of us shroomeries will be able to sleep better at night.
Why take the risk, when moving the servers to another country would not cost any more (And possibly will cost even less than it does now) and will be relatively fast?
Just take Hushmail for example. It was considered to be secure, yet when the feds wanted and supinated the communications between two members, it had no chance but to give them up.
If on the other hand their servers were located not in the states but elswhere, that would not have happened.
Can you tell me more about the hushmail incident?
-------------------- Mi Vida Loco
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Denisius
Comrade


Registered: 05/15/09
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: OverdoseLiving]
#10737066 - 07/25/09 07:58 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
OverdoseLiving said: Can you tell me more about the hushmail incident?
As it is somewhat off-topic, I have sent you a PM.
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SuperD
Cacti junky



Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#10737357 - 07/25/09 09:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
There's an checkbox under your user settings to turn on encrypted PMs, but you need to be a Shroomery supporter to use that feature.
Nah, its available to everyone. It uses strong encryption.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4276278#4276278
It used to be available only through a supporter account, thanks for clearing that up.
--------------------
   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10739166 - 07/25/09 06:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Then perhaps they should be moved elsewhere. 
There is no country that doesn't have police. And it may be easier and less expensive to challenge a seizure in the US, since this is where the lawyers are. Most other countries don't have a law equivalent to the first amendment.
Given the number of web sites that are raided every year in the US, I don't think it would be a good use of time to move the server outside the US.
When is the last time a web site in the US was shut down for something other than child porn/warez?
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Denisius
Comrade


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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#10739332 - 07/25/09 06:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
Then perhaps they should be moved elsewhere. 
There is no country that doesn't have police. And it may be easier and less expensive to challenge a seizure in the US, since this is where the lawyers are. Most other countries don't have a law equivalent to the first amendment.
Given the number of web sites that are raided every year in the US, I don't think it would be a good use of time to move the server outside the US.
When is the last time a web site in the US was shut down for something other than child porn/warez?
True, but one can never be too cautious.
Still, moving the servers to a country that has either decriminalized or completely legalized drugs would be best. (Netherlands and Portugal, respectively)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10740232 - 07/25/09 09:59 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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You are confusing drugs with knowledge. Knowledge is legal in the US, more so than almost anywhere. 1st Amendment FTW, baby!
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Denisius
Comrade


Registered: 05/15/09
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Doc_T]
#10741776 - 07/26/09 05:30 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: You are confusing drugs with knowledge. Knowledge is legal in the US, more so than almost anywhere. 1st Amendment FTW, baby!
That might have been relevant if the shroomery only went about educating people about drugs, in a style similar to Erowid.
However in the Shroomery, we also have people both showing off grows, drugs and even trading them. Occasionally in what could be considered bulk quantities.
If any of the feds ever decide to see what the Shroomery is all about and sees one of those grows or trades, both the Shroomery and those members who have done the trading will be in trouble.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10741886 - 07/26/09 06:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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We are going have to agree to disagree on this.  I concede that people could be more discreet, though.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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iluvfungi



Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 1,488
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#10752781 - 07/27/09 11:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hate to break it to you, but if you really care to know; anyone can listen on the main internet pipes to the packets that travel, and if one so cared to do so, can log specific ip's and trace the origin quite easily. For instance, a hacker could easily identify your ip and the elite guys can hack the local isp and determine your location. The government just asks for the location of your ip.
Just as risky, but in a different way. If you are on a cable modem network, you can hack that system and obtain free internet, and thus they don't have your registered address in the system. I would assume this would be the safest way to use the internet, but you would have to change mac addresses often (which is easy to see on layer 2 packets), or else your isp is going to figure it out.
If you think you can just hack your neighbors wifi, you are gravely mistaken. Better get a long distance antenna, because if they really are hunting you, they have a geographic location of all these ip's in the same area... and if the suspects are clean it just points to you. (this is what they did to a huge credit card guy).
The only safe way would be to change your mac address for the device that hits the WAN, and also to jump ip's often. If you war drive, you are pretty safe. Or you can goto a coffee shop or something. Just change the mac address.
I don't really see a real way to combat being tracked on the net without super elite skills in networking. I mean you have to be super hardcore into network security to even know some of the crap I have read about. The elite hackers gain control over route dns servers and redirect traffic before authorities are aware of what they are doing. I guess you could start your own bot net, to make a massive proxy redirection, but that would be slower.
Edited by iluvfungi (07/27/09 11:56 PM)
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iluvfungi


Registered: 06/17/09
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Denisius]
#12469379 - 04/28/10 12:08 AM (14 years, 24 days ago) |
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Well I researched this website... It is hosted in the USA at some big server farm, like what Amazon offers on the cloud. I thinking hacking like that is mostly dead. You have to hack ssh which is impossible? Even if you recorded all the data in a man in the middle attack, you'd have to have a hardcore computer to crack a 128 bit ssh key and it might just be impossible if I am remembering the protocol.
It ain't the movies.... almost everything hacking you see in a movie is garbage. Sure, they most likely monitor and have intelligent software that analyze the data that flows over the internet, cell phones, etc. But it has to be more difficult now given most things are encrypted to hell and beyond, and you'd have to decrypt all of it without the keys unless you gathered them on both sides and decrypted the message.
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naum



Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 4,069
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#12474445 - 04/28/10 10:37 PM (14 years, 24 days ago) |
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How long are IP logs kept? Indefinitely?
-------------------- Let's upgrade our security practices and move toward client-side PGP for encrypted PMs. My Public PGP Key: hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24002249#24002249
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: naum]
#12474666 - 04/28/10 11:19 PM (14 years, 23 days ago) |
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Depends, every place keeps them for a different amount of time.
There are no retention laws in the US.
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naum



Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 4,069
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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#12475034 - 04/29/10 12:22 AM (14 years, 23 days ago) |
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Err... I meant shroomery.org in particular.
-------------------- Let's upgrade our security practices and move toward client-side PGP for encrypted PMs. My Public PGP Key: hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24002249#24002249
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: naum]
#12475764 - 04/29/10 06:27 AM (14 years, 23 days ago) |
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> How long are IP logs kept? Indefinitely?
If you mean web logs, not very long. Much less than a month.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

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Re: Is there any way for the FED's to hack the shroomery?MODs? [Re: Seuss]
#12480527 - 04/29/10 09:34 PM (14 years, 23 days ago) |
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This thread is making me feel technologically stupid.
However, even at the height of the MDMA affront in the 1990's I remember a few of the major busts were made via corroboration between media and LEO outfits. Particularly Eleusis and Strike come to mind. After the story got old interest and funding disappeared to some degree in these matters.
If I'm mistaken, Big Brother needs a better hobby. If I'm not, I have yet to see any signs of Dateline doing a "Magic Mushroom" special. Despite the fact that use/distribution/manufacture of scheduled drugs is still a serious threat in a court of law it seems that such efforts here, (on this particular site), would be about as useful as most street rips in any urban city in the USA.
Not very.
Just a thought. I'm more concerned about the signatures here used by MEMBERS that show my IP when they don't even care to look in the first place. If that information is available to some trip-happy member here, how is one supposed to justify the thought that the government or special interests could NOT obtain such information. Again, they probably don't give a shit. It's a loud world out there.
~Monk
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