Home | Community | Message Board

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Kraken Kratom Shop: Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Diploid]
    #10748531 - 07/27/09 12:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Please demosntrate I'm wrong on this issue as to whether a burglary report is per se justification for a search of a house

Man, you guys are just arguing to argue and aren't even bothering to take the facts into account.

The cop did not search the house. He did not ask to search the house. Hell, he DIDN'T EVEN GO INSIDE the house.

Read the report again, especially this part:

"Gates opened the front door and exclaimed �why, because I�m a black man in America?�. I then asked Gates if there was anyone else in the residence. While yelling, he told me that it was none of my business and accused me of being a racist police officer. I assured Gates that I was responding to a citizen�s call to the Cambridge Police and that the caller was outside as we spoke.

.
.
.

I asked Gates to provide me with photo identification so that I could verify that he resided at Ware Street and so that I could radio my findings to ECC. Gates initially refused, demanding that I show him identification but then did supply me with a Harvard University identification card. Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, I radioed and requested the presence of the Harvard University Police.

With the Harvard University identification in hand, I radioed my findings to ECC on channel two and prepared to leave. Gates again asked for my name which I began to provide. Gates began to yell over my spoken words"


No house was searched, asked to be searched, or even fucking entered, yet you guys have your panties in a wad about a search that didn't happen. No, standing on someone's porch for the purpose of knocking on the door is not a search no matter how much you want to win the debate.

It's so typical of debate here that everyone debates with the goal of winning rather than finding the truth, whatever it may be, whether it jives with your worldview or not. :thumbdown:




The cop did go inside the house.  Calm down and read the report again.  The cop says, "As I began walking through the foyer to the front door, I could hear Gates demanding my name."

How did the cop get in the foyer if he never entered the house.  The foyer is in a house, correct?  I'm not sure, but I could be wrong.

EDIT:  Furthermore, the report also talks about the acoustics of the kitchen being too loud, so they had to go outside and talk.


Edited by Gogol (07/27/09 12:43 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Gogol]
    #10748596 - 07/27/09 12:54 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Isn't the foyer the part of the porch by the front door? That's how I read it. I don't see where he said he want to the kitchen.

In any case, that is not a search.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Diploid]
    #10748609 - 07/27/09 12:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Isn't the foyer the part of the porch by the front door? That's how I read it. I don't see where he said he want to the kitchen.




I always thought the foyer was in the house.  It's the part of the house that a door would lead into.

Anyway, what about the part where the cop says the acoustics of the kitchen were too loud so they had to go outside and talk?

The cop also talks about leaving the residence.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Gogol]
    #10748616 - 07/27/09 12:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Alright, the definition of "foyer" is just inside the house. I still don't see how anyone can call that a search.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Diploid]
    #10748627 - 07/27/09 01:01 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It isn't a search.  The cop did go in the foyer.  Gates didn't deny him entry.  Gates started screaming at him so loudly he couldn't hear the radio.  He asked Gates to step outside where the screaming wouldn't make so many echoes so he could use the radio.  Headquarters was worried when they didn't hear from him.  They sent several cars.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10748655 - 07/27/09 01:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It isn't a search.  The cop did go in the foyer.  Gates didn't deny him entry.  Gates started screaming at him so loudly he couldn't hear the radio.  He asked Gates to step outside where the screaming wouldn't make so many echoes so he could use the radio.  Headquarters was worried when they didn't hear from him.  They sent several cars.




Yes.  This is a search.  The Supreme Court has stated that a search occurs whenever a police officer impedes upon an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy.  You have the right to privacy in your home and a cop came in without consent. 

However, the search was probably justified as there was a report of a felony being committed inside, which could give the cop a reason to enter.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Gogol]
    #10748676 - 07/27/09 01:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Where have you seen that there was no consent?  The only refusal on Gates' part was a refusal to come outside and a refusal to stop screaming like a lunatic.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10748695 - 07/27/09 01:18 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Where have you seen that there was no consent?  The only refusal on Gates' part was a refusal to come outside and a refusal to stop screaming like a lunatic.




Consent doesn't mean lack of refusal.  It means consent.  Where do you see that there was actually consent?  I'm pretty sure Gates would not have consented to the cop entering his home. 

Again, consent was probably not needed though.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 6 months, 9 days
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Gogol]
    #10748709 - 07/27/09 01:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

if there was a report of a burglary at my house, i would be glad that the responding officer didn't ask the burglar for consent to enter the home. 

i mean, c'mon now.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Yrat]
    #10748731 - 07/27/09 01:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
if there was a report of a burglary at my house, i would be glad that the responding officer didn't ask the burglar for consent to enter the home. 

i mean, c'mon now.




I agree.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Gogol]
    #10748742 - 07/27/09 01:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Gates said he thought the cop was there to ask how he could help him.

The only place I have seen any mention of any search or any mention that Gates didn't want the cop in the house has been here.  So if you can find something that says either of those two things I'd be grateful.  Otherwise, they are strawmen.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10748789 - 07/27/09 01:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'm going by what's in the police report.

I don't see where it indicates that Gates thought the cop was there to help him. 

Anyway, a search is a search, it doesn't matter if there is consent.  If there is consent, then a search will not be unreasonable and will not violate the Constitution, but it's still a search.

"Search" is a term of art and has a specific legal meaning.  It doesn't matter if the police officer said anything, what the police officer thought, what Gates though, etc...  If a police officer goes into an area in which you have a reasonably expectation of privacy (this expectation is highest in the home) then it is a search.  End of story.


Edited by Gogol (07/27/09 01:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Gogol]
    #10748826 - 07/27/09 01:44 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gogol said:
I'm going by what's in the police report.

I don't see where it indicates that Gates thought the cop was there to help him. 

Anyway, a search is a search, it doesn't matter if there is consent.  If there is consent, then a search will not be unreasonable and will not violate the Constitution, but it's still a search.

"Search" is a term of art and has a specific legal meaning.  It doesn't matter if the police officer said anything, what the police officer thought, what Gates though, etc...  If a police officer goes into an area in which you have a reasonably expectation of privacy (this expectation is highest in the home) then it is a search.  End of story.



You got a link to that?  What if I invite the cop in for tea and he sits at my kitchen table.  Is he searching then?  What if the cop is really hot and likes to stop off for a nooner on her lunch break and we get down in my bedroom.  Is that a search?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10749084 - 07/27/09 02:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Searches

There are two parts to reasonable expectation of privacy:  (1)  Subjective - that is you yourself had an expectation of privacy, and (2) Objective - it is reasonable according to society's standards.


If you're inviting a cop in, as a friendly gesture, without him asking consent to search, this would not be a search as there would be no subjective right of privacy.

Same thing if an officer comes over to have sex with you.


Edited by Gogol (07/27/09 02:40 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Gogol]
    #10749396 - 07/27/09 03:30 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

So the cop walking onto his foyer in plain sight and with no objection violated his privacy how?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10749445 - 07/27/09 03:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Next time he calls the police, they should let him deal with what ever issue he is having on his own.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10749462 - 07/27/09 03:40 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You're asking how a cop violated someone's privacy by walking into their home without consent?

You don't need to object for there not to be consent.  You need to affirmatively give consent.  Unless Gates told the cop he could come in, then there was most likely no consent.  Again, I'm going by the police report.

However, the cop probably didn't need consent, so it's pretty moot.  All I'm saying is that this would most likely be a search.

Gates had an expectation (subjective) of privacy in his home.  This expectation is also one that society would view as reasonable (objective).  The cop, to see if a crime was being committed went into the house without consent and proceeded to question Gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Gogol]
    #10750315 - 07/27/09 05:53 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

> The cop, to see if a crime was being committed went into the house without consent and proceeded to question Gates.

You are making an assumption that the cop was not invited into the foyer by Gates.  Regardless, it is a silly worry.  It was nothing in the home that caused Gates trouble.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineGogol
Wait, what?
Male


Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 343
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Seuss]
    #10750386 - 07/27/09 06:05 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> The cop, to see if a crime was being committed went into the house without consent and proceeded to question Gates.

You are making an assumption that the cop was not invited into the foyer by Gates.  Regardless, it is a silly worry.  It was nothing in the home that caused Gates trouble.




True.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Diploid]
    #10750442 - 07/27/09 06:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Please demosntrate I'm wrong on this issue as to whether a burglary report is per se justification for a search of a house

Man, you guys are just arguing to argue and aren't even bothering to take the facts into account.






Regardless, zappa said I was stunningly ignorant or something like that, and I'm asking him to back up his statement.  So far he has not done that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next >  [ show all ]

Kraken Kratom Shop: Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Police Arrest Girl for Having Scissors in Backpack
( 1 2 all )
Ravus 1,389 21 12/14/04 06:24 PM
by AlteredReality
* Defending the patriot act
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
fadedpinkwings 5,249 93 02/27/03 03:56 PM
by Rono
* US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests
( 1 2 3 4 all )
pattern 6,132 66 03/24/03 01:19 AM
by Xlea321
* Police basically...
( 1 2 all )
Cracka_X 1,697 22 05/15/03 09:35 PM
by atomikfunksoldier
* A Patriot Speaks About The 'Patriot' Act Autonomous 1,055 10 09/24/03 07:59 PM
by Le_Canard
* Patriot Act 2, more plans for a police state Ellis Dee 1,699 16 02/26/03 07:19 PM
by ClosetCase
* Anarchists being harrased y police/ May Day Riots PGF 1,486 3 06/04/02 10:49 AM
by hongomon
* Police shoot demonstrators mm. 2,420 15 10/12/18 08:26 PM
by christopera

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
9,473 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.