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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10738833 - 07/25/09 06:52 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I can't understand the posters here who are criticizing the man for not talking to the police.


He was on his property and had every right to ignore them.  I would have done the same.


Sounds like bullying and bullshit from the police, based on what I've seen hear.  Sounds like they percipitate a situation and then overreact to it.  If it was neccesary to cite him for disorderly conduct, then whatever, but it certainly seems the repsonse was poor.


Whether he was obligated to identify himself or not, likely he was, he still should not have to.  I would also have told the police to leave my property. 


The police seem to cause more harm than good all the times I've seen them act.  It certainly seems that they are worse than the criminals as far as their affect on me and those I've seen interact with them, and in that regard they need a serious change.  Seems like many areas have far too many police if they have the resources to enforce their ego rather than the law.




Among the dumbest fucking things you have written here.

Someone breaks into your house. Cops come. Guy says he lives there. Cops say OK and leave. Tomorrow you come home from vacation to find you've been robbed. You find out the cops were there the night you were robbed and left because the guy says he lives there.

Why is it I can almost hear you screaming like a little bitch because your stuff is gone?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10741183 - 07/26/09 03:33 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

What I've most enjoyed from this thread is the idea that professors of African-American Studies are necessarily professional race-baiters.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: THC Titan]
    #10741416 - 07/26/09 04:38 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, look, a whole bunch of people claiming I said the police should leave and not investigate if someone tells them too and refuses to identify themselves.


Where did I say this?



The police have certain abilities.  If the guy refuses to identify himself, or refuses to furnish identification, then they need to leave the guy's property unless they have cause to remain.



"Getting a call of a burglary" is not per se justification for search of a house or the grounds.  If they have cause right then, they shoudl go in.  If they don't, they need to go get a warrant.





If the guy tells them to lave and to fuck off, they need to decide whether they have cause to do otherwise, and then do it. I never said the cops should ignore the situation once someone present claims to reside their.


Standing aroun bitching at some guy does nothing to investigate flashlight rape, and it seems to me this is what the cops did, which cuts against any claim of concern for the occupants and cause tosearch without a warrant.



I also have no idea why people are criticizing my comments because of the guy's stupid race batiting.  Your allowed to race bait on yoru own lawn.  The guy sounds like a jackass, but that doesn't change anything except possibly justify a citation if he's loud enough.


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InvisibleSticky Green
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10741569 - 07/26/09 05:40 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

About 4 months ago I was doing some work on an old house on the back part of my property. The old bag across the street called the pigs because I was "suspicious".
They didn't knock, they just walked in asked if I lived there, asked for I'd and then left.

Where's my week long coverage on CNN?

If I had refused ID and insulted the black cop I'd be arrested and charged with a hate crime. And I'd have a bunch of assholes calling me racist.

People need to get real. The "race card" is fast becoming the Knee jerk response of a desperate person.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: THC Titan]
    #10741979 - 07/26/09 09:56 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
What I've most enjoyed from this thread is the idea that professors of African-American Studies are necessarily professional race-baiters.



This one is.  Has been for some time.  This is not the first time I've heard of him.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10742017 - 07/26/09 10:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Wow, look, a whole bunch of people claiming I said the police should leave and not investigate if someone tells them too and refuses to identify themselves.


Where did I say this?



The police have certain abilities.  If the guy refuses to identify himself, or refuses to furnish identification, then they need to leave the guy's property unless they have cause to remain.




I ask again, how are they supposed to know it is his property?  "Yes officer this is my house now kindly fuck off so I can plunge my flashlight into the real owner's anus."
Quote:





"Getting a call of a burglary" is not per se justification for search of a house or the grounds.  If they have cause right then, they shoudl go in.  If they don't, they need to go get a warrant.




You are stunningly ignorant of the law.  Nor did they ask to search the house.  They asked him to show that he lived there, he got belligerent and acted damn strangely.  My suspicion radar goes way the fuck up when someone acts that inappropriately and I'm not even a cop.

Quote:





If the guy tells them to lave and to fuck off, they need to decide whether they have cause to do otherwise, and then do it. I never said the cops should ignore the situation once someone present claims to reside their.

Quote:

johnm214 said:

He was on his property and had every right to ignore them.  I would have done the same.

Whether he was obligated to identify himself or not, likely he was, he still should not have to.  I would also have told the police to leave my property.








What do you call that?
Quote:






Standing aroun bitching at some guy does nothing to investigate flashlight rape, and it seems to me this is what the cops did, which cuts against any claim of concern for the occupants and cause tosearch without a warrant.



Another straw man.  It seems to me you are completely wrong on the facts.  The bitch was Gates, not the cop.  And I do not believe there was any request to search the property.  Just for Gates to identify himself and demonstrate that he belonged there.  Keep making shit up.
Quote:

 



I also have no idea why people are criticizing my comments because of the guy's stupid race batiting.  Your allowed to race bait on yoru own lawn.  The guy sounds like a jackass, but that doesn't change anything except possibly justify a citation if he's loud enough.




Yelling and screaming in public and interfering with a police officer in the course of his duties is against the law.


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10742745 - 07/26/09 01:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
The police have certain abilities.  If the guy refuses to identify himself, or refuses to furnish identification, then they need to leave the guy's property unless they have cause to remain.




If the guy refuses to ID himself after a call of a possible burglary in process, they have every reason to stay.

Or are you suggesting they simply take an unknown individuals word for it?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineravenshield420
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Re: Obama: Police who arrested professor 'acted stupidly' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10742755 - 07/26/09 01:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

lonestar is clearly a troll
if your in your own house you can say w/e u want to a police officer as long as you ain't  threatening  the police officer.:mad2:


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Invisibledanielx
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Re: Obama: Police who arrested professor 'acted stupidly' [Re: ravenshield420]
    #10743248 - 07/26/09 03:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ravenshield420 said:
lonestar is clearly a troll
if your in your own house you can say w/e u want to a police officer as long as you ain't  threatening  the police officer.:mad2:




good. just pm me your address so I can come rob your house. don't bother calling the police, because ill just tell them to fuck off because its my house now.


--------------------
Long live kratom :kratom:


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: Obama: Police who arrested professor 'acted stupidly' [Re: ravenshield420]
    #10743318 - 07/26/09 03:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

lonestar is far from a troll, you moron.


--------------------





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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama: Police who arrested professor 'acted stupidly' [Re: danielx]
    #10743396 - 07/26/09 04:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

danielx said:
Quote:

ravenshield420 said:
lonestar is clearly a troll
if your in your own house you can say w/e u want to a police officer as long as you ain't  threatening  the police officer.:mad2:




good. just pm me your address so I can come rob your house. don't bother calling the police, because ill just tell them to fuck off because its my house now.



Let me know when you're going.  I'll bring the flashlight.


--------------------


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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10744725 - 07/26/09 08:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


You are stunningly ignorant of the law.  Nor did they ask to search the house.  They asked him to show that he lived there, he got belligerent and acted damn strangely.  My suspicion radar goes way the fuck up when someone acts that inappropriately and I'm not even a cop.








I disagree.  Please demosntrate I'm wrong on this issue as to whether a burglary report is per se justification for a search of a house, especially when the door is answered by someone who refuses entry.


I would appreciate a response given how forcefully you claim I'm wrong.

Quote:



I ask again, how are they supposed to know it is his property?  "Yes officer this is my house now kindly fuck off so I can plunge my flashlight into the real owner's anus."





I don't know and it doesn't matter.  The issue is not whether they know its hsi property but whether they had cause to remain and cause to enter the house.  Given they did not seem to be seeking a warrant, and the guy refused entry, they needed to decide whether they had cause to enter.  I'm guessing they didn't, but ti really doesn't matter.  Just cuz a crime may occur does not mean the police have a right to enter the house.





Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
The police have certain abilities.  If the guy refuses to identify himself, or refuses to furnish identification, then they need to leave the guy's property unless they have cause to remain.




If the guy refuses to ID himself after a call of a possible burglary in process, they have every reason to stay.

Or are you suggesting they simply take an unknown individuals word for it?






Thank you for being more civil, man.  I like you, but don't call me or my posting stupid, please.


No, I'm not suggesting they take his word for it.  'm sayign they need to make a decision whether to go in anyways, arrest the guy, or get a warrant.  To me it seems that the concern for the burglary was minor at the time the guy was arrested and that the police may have percipitated the situation by making demands they did not have cause to make, and becoming incensed at the response they recieved.


What I am saying is that standing around arguing with a guy is not an investigation, and does nothing to deal with the situation.  The guy probably was required to show ID, I'm not sure, but he had every right to tell them to leave, and it seems like the response to this (and the guy's other actions) was improper.  Basically I suspect they did not have any cause to enter the house and they instead were upset the guy wouldn't consent.  If he didn't show ID and was required to, that would be a far better thing to arrest the guy for.


I especially don't understand why he was arrested.  Was a citation not sufficient?


Basically, I doubt they had cause to search the house over his lack of consent, and in any case, they needed to either go in or seek a warrant rather than arguing with the guy when he tells them he lives there and to leave.  The fact that the law doesn't provide for police intervention in all burglaries when someone refuses entry is immaterial- crimes happen.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10744777 - 07/26/09 09:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

> I especially don't understand why he was arrested. 

We will never know, but I suspect that it was "cop ego" and had absolutely nothing to do with race.  My guess is the cop was asking for ID in good faith to ensure a home invasion was not in progress.  Gates started to act like an asshole.  The cop responded by acting like a bigger asshole.  Ultimately, the cop showed Gates "who is boss" and arrested him on one of those "fit all" charges. The same thing would have happened to any of us if we acted like assholes in the same situation.  I also suspect that Gates was "trolling", trying to get a rise out of the cop so that he could scream racism.


--------------------
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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Seuss]
    #10745635 - 07/26/09 11:34 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I suspect you are correct. 

Rather than trying to get a rise out of the cop though, don't you think its possible he really thought it was racism?  I've known folks who think they have it worse with cops cuz of their race, the fact that they have no infromation to back this up on other than supposition and their own experiences never seems to stop them.

I've had bad encounters with police and I'm white, I think other factors are more likely relevant for most cops, and if I had to guess, the cop just was incensed this guy didn't love him to death or cooperate fearfully and thus acted a bit rashly.



This guy seems like a fool, but I don't see what his race baiting has to do with whether the cops were justified in the arrest or whether their conduct was appropriate.  Its hard to see how the race baiting would be legitamately relevant to the situation in any way other than the volume et cet.


Much of the discussion on this issue seems to center around whether the guy should have done this or that, but I don't really see what that has to do with the cops arresting him for disorderly conduct.  Can anyone lay out what legitimate cause their was for the charge and why they needed to arrest?  The snippets I've seen weren't helpful.



(this issue also seems totally mundane, and I can't understand the national attention... is their any actual evidence of racism or dispartate treatment ont eh basis of race?  I haven't found any....)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10748020 - 07/27/09 10:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:


You are stunningly ignorant of the law.  Nor did they ask to search the house.  They asked him to show that he lived there, he got belligerent and acted damn strangely.  My suspicion radar goes way the fuck up when someone acts that inappropriately and I'm not even a cop.








I disagree.  Please demosntrate I'm wrong on this issue as to whether a burglary report is per se justification for a search of a house, especially when the door is answered by someone who refuses entry.


I would appreciate a response given how forcefully you claim I'm wrong.




They didn't ask to search the house.  I do not believe Gates refused him entry.  Given A.  a report of a break-in and B.  Gates' bizarre behavior they did have justification to continue to suspect weirdness.
Quote:



Quote:



I ask again, how are they supposed to know it is his property?  "Yes officer this is my house now kindly fuck off so I can plunge my flashlight into the real owner's anus."





I don't know and it doesn't matter.  The issue is not whether they know its hsi property but whether they had cause to remain and cause to enter the house.  Given they did not seem to be seeking a warrant, and the guy refused entry, they needed to decide whether they had cause to enter.  I'm guessing they didn't, but ti really doesn't matter.  Just cuz a crime may occur does not mean the police have a right to enter the house.




You don't know.  He didn't refuse entry, he refused to step outside and was reluctant to provide evidence that he lived there.  And then he continued to scream shit so much so that headquarters was unable to contact the officer and dispatched several cars.  You seem to have absolutely zero understanding of the facts of the case and are basing your complaint on things that didn't happen.
Quote:







Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
The police have certain abilities.  If the guy refuses to identify himself, or refuses to furnish identification, then they need to leave the guy's property unless they have cause to remain.




If the guy refuses to ID himself after a call of a possible burglary in process, they have every reason to stay.

Or are you suggesting they simply take an unknown individuals word for it?






Thank you for being more civil, man.  I like you, but don't call me or my posting stupid, please.


No, I'm not suggesting they take his word for it.  'm sayign they need to make a decision whether to go in anyways, arrest the guy, or get a warrant.  To me it seems that the concern for the burglary was minor at the time the guy was arrested and that the police may have percipitated the situation by making demands they did not have cause to make, and becoming incensed at the response they recieved.


What I am saying is that standing around arguing with a guy is not an investigation, and does nothing to deal with the situation.  The guy probably was required to show ID, I'm not sure, but he had every right to tell them to leave, and it seems like the response to this (and the guy's other actions) was improper.  Basically I suspect they did not have any cause to enter the house and they instead were upset the guy wouldn't consent.  If he didn't show ID and was required to, that would be a far better thing to arrest the guy for.


I especially don't understand why he was arrested.  Was a citation not sufficient?


Basically, I doubt they had cause to search the house over his lack of consent, and in any case, they needed to either go in or seek a warrant rather than arguing with the guy when he tells them he lives there and to leave.  The fact that the law doesn't provide for police intervention in all burglaries when someone refuses entry is immaterial- crimes happen.




THEY DIDN'T ASK TO SEARCH THE HOUSE.  THEY SIMPLY ASKED HIM TO PROVE HE LIVED THERE.  WHEN HE BECAME SO FUCKING AGITATED INSIDE THAT THE OFFICER COULDN'T RADIO HE ASKED HIM TO COME OUTSIDE.

Gates seemed to have some notion that by providing evidence that he was a Hahvuhd prof he was automatically beyond suspicion even though it provided zero proof of his residency there.  At which point he went into high dudgeon mode.  Fuck him, he played the "elite" card before he played the "race" card and you know your hand sucks when those are all the cards you have.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: Seuss]
    #10748035 - 07/27/09 10:15 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I especially don't understand why he was arrested. 

We will never know, but I suspect that it was "cop ego" and had absolutely nothing to do with race.  My guess is the cop was asking for ID in good faith to ensure a home invasion was not in progress.  Gates started to act like an asshole.  The cop responded by acting like a bigger asshole.  Ultimately, the cop showed Gates "who is boss" and arrested him on one of those "fit all" charges. The same thing would have happened to any of us if we acted like assholes in the same situation.  I also suspect that Gates was "trolling", trying to get a rise out of the cop so that he could scream racism.




I do not see one single thing to support an assertion that the cop was an asshole.  All his fellow cops support him.  I do not subscribe to the all too prevalent belief among numerous miscreants here that all cops suck.  They have a dangerous job.  Some moron in the paaper said Gates is a little old man with a cane.  Do you know what a little old man with a cane and a gun can do?  Or maybe there was a gunman hiding in the house making Gates send the cop away.  I don't even necessarily think Gates was trolling.  I think he is a privileged brat who expected to get HIS dick sucked because he had a Hahvuhd ID.
Wrong em, fucko.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10748042 - 07/27/09 10:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:

(this issue also seems totally mundane, and I can't understand the national attention... is their any actual evidence of racism or dispartate treatment ont eh basis of race?  I haven't found any....)




Finally, something sane.  This would be a near total non-issue if it wasn't for the Blabbermouth-in-Chief being an ignorant and incompetent asshole.


--------------------


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10748130 - 07/27/09 10:45 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:yesnod:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10748306 - 07/27/09 11:33 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:


THEY DIDN'T ASK TO SEARCH THE HOUSE.  THEY SIMPLY ASKED HIM TO PROVE HE LIVED THERE.  WHEN HE BECAME SO FUCKING AGITATED INSIDE THAT THE OFFICER COULDN'T RADIO HE ASKED HIM TO COME OUTSIDE.






The police don't have to ask for it to be a search.  It becomes a search whenever police violate someone's privacy interest.

According to the police report, the officer went in the house without a warrant.  However, if the officer believed that a felony was occurring (burglary) in the house, this could fall under an exception to the warrant requirement.

I'm not sure what Mass. Law is though.

Anyway, I support the cop in this instance.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Union Chief: Obama Should Apologize To Cambridge Police [Re: johnm214]
    #10748514 - 07/27/09 12:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Please demosntrate I'm wrong on this issue as to whether a burglary report is per se justification for a search of a house

Man, you guys are just arguing to argue and aren't even bothering to take the facts into account.

The cop did not search the house. He did not ask to search the house. Hell, he DIDN'T EVEN GO INSIDE the house.

Read the report again, especially this part:

"Gates opened the front door and exclaimed “why, because I’m a black man in America?”. I then asked Gates if there was anyone else in the residence. While yelling, he told me that it was none of my business and accused me of being a racist police officer. I assured Gates that I was responding to a citizen’s call to the Cambridge Police and that the caller was outside as we spoke.

.
.
.

I asked Gates to provide me with photo identification so that I could verify that he resided at Ware Street and so that I could radio my findings to ECC. Gates initially refused, demanding that I show him identification but then did supply me with a Harvard University identification card. Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, I radioed and requested the presence of the Harvard University Police.

With the Harvard University identification in hand, I radioed my findings to ECC on channel two and prepared to leave. Gates again asked for my name which I began to provide. Gates began to yell over my spoken words"


No house was searched, asked to be searched, or even fucking entered, yet you guys have your panties in a wad about a search that didn't happen. No, standing on someone's porch for the purpose of knocking on the door is not a search no matter how much you want to win the debate.

It's so typical of debate here that everyone argues with the goal of winning rather than finding the truth, whatever it may be, whether it jives with your worldview or not. :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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