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OfflineBob_J
Spaced outRabbit

Registered: 12/30/01
Posts: 246
Loc: alberta canada
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
whats with people becoming christians
    #1071503 - 11/20/02 07:58 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

what the hell is with people taking LSD or shrooms or just doing alot of misc. drugs and becoming bible thumpers? my friend has recently devoted his life to god, and has a giant poster of jesus in his room (its like 3 feet wide by about 7 feet tall). last few times i talked to him he starts talking about god and jesus, etc and the last time i talked to him he started reciting quotes from the bible. i had to hang up on him. plus he;s got this little shrine thing going in front of the poster with candles, his fancy leather bible (looks nice actually, not those cheap ass ones they give you in school). plus ive read trip reports of people suddenly becoming religious. any thoughts on this?
i went to a catholic school until grade 8, then switched to non religious public schools. i always felt that the teachers were brainwashing the students, personally i think god is a load of crap myself.


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"With insomnia your never really asleep, and your never really awake"

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OfflineBob_J
Spaced outRabbit

Registered: 12/30/01
Posts: 246
Loc: alberta canada
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1071517 - 11/20/02 08:05 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

also this friend has only done LSD a few times and shrooms a few times. some pot, and barely any alcohol. as of right now he is somewhere in australia on some sort of jesus quest thing. we both live in canada. this "change" happened within a few days right after we ate 6 grams of homegrown equador shrooms.


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"With insomnia your never really asleep, and your never really awake"

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InvisibleTackleBerry
Im working forthem.
Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 701
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1071525 - 11/20/02 08:09 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

So what? Would you rather he turn muslim?

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Invisiblezeta
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1071549 - 11/20/02 08:18 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I think that sort of thing happens to people who can't cope with having control over their own lives, so they suddenly relinquish control to "God" and sit back and enjoy the ride.. not my kind of ride thanks.


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Offlinecelestialtripper
Test Pilot
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 272
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1071742 - 11/20/02 09:47 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

sometimes with mind altering drugs people can have an almost religious experience...i wouldnt make a big deal out of it...

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OfflineSheepish
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1071777 - 11/20/02 09:53 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

It's easy to see why it happens. When you trip, you sometimes look up at the stars and feel like there's really something up there, and you're on the same level and communicating with Him. That's all nice, but not for me.

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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1071874 - 11/20/02 10:11 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

So what? Would you rather he turn muslim?




What makes christianity better than islam?


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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OfflineCubieman420
Sharing in thegroove
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/20/02
Posts: 2,693
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Skikid16]
    #1071906 - 11/20/02 10:16 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

fuck christianity...i have always felt this was the "easy answer" to everything that people want.


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"...now waters run free, no more fish in the sea..."
1983-2004

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Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1071919 - 11/20/02 10:18 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

One time me and this christian chick smoked some DMT, it destroyed her entire religious belief and was depressed that she wasted so much time with christianity. She never called me back though.

As long as I can remember I never believed in god, and as I got older christianity seemed more ridiculous and is a big crock of shit. After doing mushrooms and LSD, it really enforeced that christians are wasting their time praying to something that doesn't exist.

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1072235 - 11/20/02 11:51 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I think the problem might be that they're fucking stupid.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineBob_J
Spaced outRabbit

Registered: 12/30/01
Posts: 246
Loc: alberta canada
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Strumpling]
    #1072291 - 11/21/02 12:11 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

ya i cant figure out why people waste there time with religion.
i dont care what it is...christian, muslim i dont give a shit. it just gives people a sense of doing something right i think....something along those lines...thought about it on shrooms but cant remember exactly.


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"With insomnia your never really asleep, and your never really awake"

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: daussaulit]
    #1072430 - 11/21/02 01:10 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

"christians are wasting their time praying to something that doesn't exist"

Don't forget MONEY too.... grrrrr


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineHamurabi
the babylonianleader..

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 2,421
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Strumpling]
    #1072759 - 11/21/02 03:49 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

"When you trip, you sometimes look up at the stars and feel like there's really something up there, and you're on the same level and communicating with Him"
---> i am not a religious guy but hell i lived this experience 1 time!! it was too realistic!

"christians are wasting their time praying to something that doesn't exist"
--->as i said i am not a religious guy but nobody can prove that god doesnt exist


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1073093 - 11/21/02 07:58 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

this happened to an old friend of mine after he was found naked sleeping in someone's driveway 3 days after eating a bunch of datura.


--------------------
Shopping for your head? Visit HeadShopFinder.com or find Online Head Shops.

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OfflineNatas
Natas
Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 48
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bilge]
    #1074572 - 11/21/02 04:55 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

^
^
^
^
^
^
HAHA I could just picture that happening to me or one of my friends.  :grin: 

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OfflineBrugman
antisobrietarian
Male

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 15,887
Loc: the land up over
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1076324 - 11/22/02 08:56 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe it's because of fear. If they have a trip, and become scared of death, they might become Christian so they will have the self-assurance that Jesus will save their souls. I don't believe in it, but who am I to say if there's a God or not? :smile:

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Offlineleafblowerz
Shroom mumbler
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 995
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1076430 - 11/22/02 09:27 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I've seen it several times in people who used drugs destructively. They're looking for help in drugs and they're looking for help in religion.

Hope they find it someday, the sorry bastards!

Leaf

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InvisibleEvilShroomer
newbie
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 31
Loc: Pacific Coast
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: leafblowerz]
    #1076476 - 11/22/02 09:47 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Religion is a piece of crcok come on , if there really was a god and shit , all this crap that happend today wouldnt happend , of there a Devil that why , that aint no reason , some idiot probalmy found some rock , ate some shrooms or some shit , wrote on the rock took it back, and said this guy from the sky wrote this and gave me this

Edited by EvilShroomer (11/22/02 09:50 AM)

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Offlineleafblowerz
Shroom mumbler
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 995
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: EvilShroomer]
    #1076480 - 11/22/02 09:54 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, Evil. And you even came back and edited that post. What exactly did you edit? By the way, I'm out on the river east of you.

Leaf

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OfflineTheHobbit
Pot Head Pixie

Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 863
Loc: the Oily Way...
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: leafblowerz]
    #1077076 - 11/22/02 02:05 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe if God turned out to have a nice big pair of tits and a hot ass, i'd feel differently, but I think the religious nuts should be jetisoned into space, after they are shit upon, of course. There's one fuckin' God show on my system on weekends where this dickless jesus wad eater touches people on their foreheads and they collapse to the floor, like retarted turd bacteria. Amazingly the venue that this shit is going on in is filled to capacity. What the fuck, how fucking stupid are people, what fuckin' conformity, no questioning of anything, fuck, fuck, fuck. I wish there was a turd buffet where I could go into, where Christians are strapped down, and onto which I can release steaming corn turds.

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: TheHobbit]
    #1078090 - 11/22/02 09:28 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

LOL!  :laugh:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Invisiblechinacat72
eyes of theworld
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1078305 - 11/22/02 11:13 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

18 in. of san pedro and 500mcg of lsd and i understand jesus better than the pope



--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1078465 - 11/23/02 12:37 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ]
    #1078610 - 11/23/02 02:07 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Here's the problem though, everyone seems to forget that nice christian group oh 50 years ago or so, remember them, the Nazis.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Anonymous

Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1078613 - 11/23/02 02:09 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I have a friend who was fairly religious until he tooks shrooms. During his first trip, he denounced his religion and began to believe there is no god.

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Skikid16]
    #1078665 - 11/23/02 02:26 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 8 months, 14 days
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ]
    #1079001 - 11/23/02 08:15 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

ummmm...
i think we've been here before...
the nazi movement had some christian trappings... but so does the KKK & the jonestown cult & a lot of other fringe groups... some are less powerful or violent or whatever...
anyways, the national socialist party of germany eventually issued a "de-judaized" bible, and a lot of seriously non-christian stuff was mixed in --- norse religion motifs, out-there stuff like hollow earth & seriously wierd racial & eugenic beliefs, etc, etc...
and there were many catholic and lutheran pastors (and lay folk) who would not buy into the new state religion --- and many of them were liquidated by the nazis ... (remembering dietrich bonhoffer...)
calling nazism a form of christianity is, well, a stretch (imho :wink: ...)
well, that's my $.05, heh... for now...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

Edited by gnrm23 (11/23/02 01:45 PM)

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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: gnrm23]
    #1079281 - 11/23/02 12:06 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with you completely, I just think people should realize that christianity has had its evils, as well as islam.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 8 months, 14 days
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Skikid16]
    #1079463 - 11/23/02 01:42 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

christianity: (in a rough chronological order)
the struggle with the jews
the struggle with the heretics
the struggle with non-believers
the struggle with the eastern churches (romism vs. orthodoxy)
the struggle with "??? "(jews, muslims, & wrong-thinking christians) ("the holy inquisistion")
the crusades
the struggle between the church of rome and the protestants
the struggle between protestants
the struggle against witches ("the burning times")
the struggle against "secular humanism"
ummmm, did i leave anything out?  :wink: ... missionaries, pogroms, genocide, slavery... oh, probably, hehheh...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Offlinemoidirus
alkaloid fiend

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 15
Loc: High Desert
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1079964 - 11/23/02 06:09 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I think there is a lot of confusion between religion and spirituality. Religion is a structured belief system. One can, as I do, believe in god or a higher level of existance with out being religious. I consider myself a very spiritual person as well as very anti religious. I belive that all religions are nothing more than a politcal tool used by those that wish to rule the week minded, ego bound people that need to be told how to think. Now in my day I've had many spirtitual experiances with various substances but the only religious experiance I can ever claim to have had was with this catholic girl I used to date :wink: 


--------------------
"To prohibit a thing goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes."
Abraham Lincoln

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Offlinecheifdog24
enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 270
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: gnrm23]
    #1081465 - 11/24/02 10:40 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

That was such a great illustration. Very cool.

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InvisibleLyena
Leopard Day Thief
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 702
Loc: Los Angeles
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1081488 - 11/24/02 10:54 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I went through a long phase of different beliefs (including a severely-christian one). Then I straightened out my mind, and since then I've said that I wouldn't believe in a god/specific religion until I've seen that god face to face, then I'll believe it. Because I think people take "miracles" too far to push the reason for them to be something, even though it really doesn't have to be anything.. That's what disgusts me about religion, along with the mass-belief-profit of it. But with psychedelics, and enough of a dose to take you there you CAN meet god... and from there on it gives you the key to believe whatever you want. I've had experiences on acid and mushrooms that you could call 'religious', but then again I might have been just tripping! I've seen people, after psychedelics, form their own beliefs and other take the experience and put it on a belief that's already there (like Christianity). I'd say forming your own beliefs would be better, because I know thinking for yourself always is :smile: 


--------------------
"live fast, die fast"

-- gg allin

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OfflineCryptic
WarpedCndn

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 598
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1082445 - 11/24/02 07:12 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

why people devote their lives to a single deity i will never understand..

i belive there is a higher force, but what it is i dont know.. i have seen it before on one of my trips.. and it was unlike anything i have ever seen before.. it wasent scary, it was wonderful.. I am a canadian too..

"I dont believe in a god that i need to worship, i dont believe in a need to get down on my knees"



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-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

While the Trees Grow out of your Skin, Can i plant you so a forest will grow?
"When you want it, it goes away to Fast. Times you hate it always seem to last" - Marilyn Manson

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Cryptic]
    #1084429 - 11/25/02 01:23 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

what's with people not having a clue as to what Christianity is about? just coz people calling themselves Christians do evil things doesn't make any statement concerning Cristianity, because when they do evil things they betrayed the Christian title.

evil exists because God gave man free-will. if He did not, there would be no point in creating us - we'd be mindless automatons. so people can choose, but that doesn't mean you can get away with choosing wrong, it's not like you live here forever.

the roman catholic faith is built upon many errors lies and deceit. it is currently in a better standing, but the pope is a symbol of rejection of God's word and should have never come into existence, as well purgatory was never mentioned in the bible and was discovered around the year 800 to be a creation of the roman catholic church to rob people of their money by selling them indulgences for their sins - you could pay money and get a contract which allowed you to commit that sin i.e. adultry, murder etc.

lutheranism came out of roman catholicism when Martin Luther publicly condemned the roman catholic church for deviated from the true word of God and making up their own rules as they saw fit. Martin Luther and other tried to convince the roman church to desist its corruption and when the roman catholic church refused to reform its ways the people who were willing to uphold God's true original word segregated into the sect called lutheran. rome always sought to rule the world and maybe they still will, through the roman catholic church.

if God is so bogus, then do a little research on exorcisms then ask yourself "why do they work". the movie "the exorcist" was based on a real exorcism. i attempted on exorcism on myself (which is highly unrecommended by anyone) coz i had pretty much lost my soul and become posessed and it worked as far as exorcising all evil in me, only it all came back afterwords and i was in an even worse state than before. i didn't get any sleep that night coz i was constantly bothered, as well i experience extreme time distortion. i'd think it had bee a few hours since i last looked at the clock when it had only been 20 seconds, or i'd feel as though only a few seconds had gone by when it had really been 3 hours.

so instead of just retreating to safety in the multitudes of people who will take your side of senselessly derogating someone you don't have the slightest clue about, why don't you seek to learn something then talk from knowledge rather than from bigotry.

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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Disco Cat]
    #1084625 - 11/25/02 02:19 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Uhhh Ohhh.
Please forgive this poor person people, You see he is from a part of B.C where they think the movie "The exorcist" is real.
I think you lost a lot of people when you started bringing up "facts" about exorcisms.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.

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OfflineBrugman
antisobrietarian
Male

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 15,887
Loc: the land up over
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Disco Cat]
    #1085045 - 11/25/02 05:18 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

BWAHHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
*sniff*
based on a real exorcism..
that's a good post! I needed that.

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Offlinemoidirus
alkaloid fiend

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 15
Loc: High Desert
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1085124 - 11/25/02 05:40 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

True...True...


--------------------
"To prohibit a thing goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes."
Abraham Lincoln

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Anonymous

Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ]
    #1085170 - 11/25/02 05:58 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

"Organized religion is gayer than asspiracy."

Best quote ever.

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Offlinecheifdog24
enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 270
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Disco Cat]
    #1085172 - 11/25/02 05:59 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Are you serious? HOLY SHIT, your post was so damn funny, "I performed an exocisim on myself" wow, damn, whew, that was good. You know another movie that was based on a true story, "Titanic".

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Anonymous

Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1085184 - 11/25/02 06:05 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

What a dope..

Modern Christianity is so ridiculous. I just read a little of the bible the other day.. and I thought to myself.. Man what the hell does this stuff mean? Alot of christians do that. But they dont ask themselves, they ask someone who is 'ordained'.

Ridiculous.. absolutely ridiculous. It scares me to think there are billions of people on Earth that do this.

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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
WizardExtraordinary &Absolute CocoaSlut

Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 321
Loc: They tell me it's a hospi...
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Disco Cat]
    #1085326 - 11/25/02 07:01 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

GOD IS AN EXCUSE FOR IGNORANCE!

IGNORANCE IS THE FOOD OF GODS!

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OfflineSheepish
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Disco Cat]
    #1085513 - 11/25/02 08:17 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

You might have had a valid point until you started talking about exorcism. Bullshit man, Exorcist based on a true story? Might be time to lay off the crack...

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1087563 - 11/26/02 12:05 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

"The interviews start out with director William Friedkin discussing the factors that made him interested in William Peter Blatty's novel, and how finding out that it was based on a true story piqued his interest even more."

"The controversial nature of the film's content - exorcism (accompanied by blasphemies, obscenities and graphic physical shocks), was supposedly based upon an authentic, nearly two-month long exorcism performed in 1949 on a 14-year old boy (with pseudonym "Robbie Mannheim") in Mt. Rainier, Maryland by the Catholic Church (in the form of a fifty-two year old Jesuit priest named Fr. William S. Bowdern and Fr. Raymond Bishop). The official exorcism was reported in Thomas B. Allen's and Carl Brandt's 1993 book Possessed"


just do a google search and you'll find out for yourselves.

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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Disco Cat]
    #1087960 - 11/26/02 02:32 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

No one will argue that there are morons out there that performed exorcisims. We just now know you are one of them :tongue:


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1093586 - 11/28/02 11:35 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Well christians aren't all worthless. I was thinking about becoming an evalgelist and run a telethon to help my "church". After a few weeks of raking in the dough, I'd disappear. You guys know what I'm talking about, those christians donate tons of money, but not to help people in need, just so they can build an extravagant church that they probably spent way more than they should have. like TBN, the trinity broadcasting network, I went to their website one day, and they have a few giant mansions, all with a VR stadium. So anyone want to help me scam some money out of some stupid christians?
"A fool and his money are soon parted"

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OfflineMosby
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1106224 - 12/03/02 02:18 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Seems to be allot of confusion here with the concept of spirituality and religion. Christianity can be a wonderful path to follow what's so wrong with basically loving your fellow humans and trusting in God. Christianity is a spiritual path not a religion, religions almost always corrupt their followers with exclusionary doctrine and dogma. Spiritual paths are inclusive and allow for people to find god in their own way

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Mosby]
    #1106250 - 12/03/02 02:39 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I like many christian teachings aside from all the "saviour" and "god" talk they spew into the mix :wink:


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OfflineYellowSubmarine
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Strumpling]
    #1106314 - 12/03/02 03:18 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

"You're all hear not for Jesus but for fear. For feat of the firey perils of hell." - How Green is My Valley

I just saw this film in my film class while I watching a film in the film class.
-shit I'm stoned

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: YellowSubmarine]
    #1106319 - 12/03/02 03:23 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

"I just saw this film in my film class while I watching a film in the film class"

lol man :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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Offlinenemesis
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Strumpling]
    #1579110 - 05/26/03 05:46 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I am Muslim, and I am very relegious .. before any psychedellic use I was a strong beleiver (and DMT has strengthed my beleif).. I agree that Modern Christianity is crap which goes around, they change their own damn scriptures to the way they please, Trinity was fabricated by man and so was the New Testament(dont wanna offend any Christians, but do some research, read the book the; "The Choice", its proof from your own bible that its fabricated), they take the easy way out with their "savoiur" .. and its Christiniaty which gives relegion a bad name .. and allows people to have an ignorant viewpoint .. the ones who are converting to Islam are the Christian priests who are relising... Before you go completely disapproving of 1.3 billion peoples' same views, the Muslims, please inform yourself more of what Islam is .. because if you are truely seekers, its in your interest to have a look .. there is more to it then meets the eye, because I myself once was an Atheist.

I dont wanna be a Bible basher lol, so ill just give you a few links ..

basics-
Islam Q&A

http://www.al-sunnah.com/
http://www.islam-guide.com/



MOD EDIT: if you do something that ruins the layout of a forum page, please undo it with an edit. Similarly, if you spot a post which for instance makes the thread unusually wide, notify a local moderator.

Edited by Wiccan_Seeker (05/07/06 10:42 AM)

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Offlinedomite
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1579725 - 05/26/03 09:29 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

ah yes, "fabricated" like the Koran was not written by men?

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OfflineSombie
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Strumpling]
    #1579776 - 05/26/03 09:42 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I am so surprised at the amount of people are are so arrogant and ethnocentric here.


Just because someone beleives in God dosen't make them stupid.

Most great minds in history beleived in god


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OfflineDemiurge
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sombie]
    #1580189 - 05/27/03 12:11 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Uh, the Koran is pretty much accepted by scholars to be the actual transcriptions of speeches given by Muhammed. I wish I could say this much for the christian gospels, but the earliest christian gospel is thought to have been written about 100 years after the death of Christ. Unlike the Koran, the gospels of the New Testament don't agree much on their content either. So, yes the trinity, which isn't even in the gospels, but came even later, is much more of a fabrication than the Koran.

If we are arguing the validity of different religions, then I'd have to say that I'd agree with Nemesis. The fundamental dogma of the Christian church is the belief in christ, not the belief in his teachings. Being a good christian, according to christian doctrine has everything to do with faith in christ, and very little to do with what he actually taught. If this isn't a fallacy, I don't know what is. However, Islam has everything to do with the teachings of Muhammed, who even believed in christ. Go figure.

Oh, and I'm not a Muslim or a Christian, so don't flame me, okay. I'm just trying to set things straight. Most of the bullshit that comes out of organized religion is just coming from a corrupt church, altered doctrine, or extremists. The core teachings of both prophets are actually quite similar and pretty good stuff IMOA. Don't listen to the church. Just pick up a copy of the Bible or the Koran and read it with an open mind.


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Offlinenemesis
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sombie]
    #1580230 - 05/27/03 12:23 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

yeah Sombie, like Albert Einstien ..
"I want to know God's thoughts... all the rest are details."
--Albert Einstein


and Domite, the answer to your question is the Qu'ran itself .. read it .. and judge if it was ..
http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-2.htm
... also .. http://www.islam-guide.com/ .. has all the proofs in a simple format =) .. have a look, the scientific revelations in the Qu'ran blew me away when I first found out .. you as a seeker of truth, isnt it in your best interests to have a look?



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May Peace and fellicity smile on those who seek it.

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OfflineLostMetropolis
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Demiurge]
    #1580247 - 05/27/03 12:28 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Fuck the christians, fuck the muslims, fuck the hindus. The buddhists can stay though.  :grin:


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"Not All Who Wander Are Lost" - Tolkien

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Bob_J]
    #1580308 - 05/27/03 12:47 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I think with psychedelics, one is more likely to convert to Buddhism than to Christianity, since they sense a oneness with all things. From what I've seen, it's recovering drug addicts, not casual psychedelic users, who become hardcore Christians.


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Offlinez3b3d33
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #1581132 - 05/27/03 10:38 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I agree totally ... I've had some experience with psychedelics ... shrooms , blotter , salvia , san pedro etc etc blah blah and from what I've seen and heard and experienced over the last few years I could never dream of being xtian...buddhism however seemed totally natural.

from my experience it is either hardcore nutballs or recovering boozehounds and hard drug users that turn to christianity.

I find buddhism fits in more with my day to day existence rather than the belief of some bearded guy that's gonna slap me down for some transgression of a law made up 2000 years ago by people that where quite frankly boring :wink:
 

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Offlinenemesis
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: z3b3d33]
    #1582280 - 05/27/03 05:55 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I agree .. I can define myself as a Budhist Muslim .. Buddhism I cannot say is a relegion, as in the sense of understanding of a supreme being. But its teachings, aswell as the Rastafarians teachings I accept, because no where in Budhist teachings did he claim divinity but only A path, one of many I beleive .. I consider prayer as a form of meditation, which creates selflessness and releases the ego .. so to me their teachings arent that different, both main influence is "peace" ... Sal'um


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: TheHobbit]
    #1583936 - 05/28/03 02:22 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

It's just my opinion, but I think a lot of people when they first begin to do drugs, and specifically psychadelics, are doing it because they are looking for something in their life that's missing.

Unfortunately, we are brought up in a country (in the US, at least) where christianity is the prevailing religion and where those of us who are not christian - or non-secular, more to the point - are treated as outsiders, sometimes to the point of near villification. The result of this is that most people believe that christianity is the only path to "spirituality". Of course, WE know that Lenny Bruce was right when he said "Every day, more and more people are leaving the Church and going back to god."

When these folks have that psychadelic experience which, for many of us is simply a glimpse at the path that lies ahead, well... I think they realize the need to fill their spiritual selves and quickly revert back to the christian way of thinking. The misconception that the Church has anything to do with spirituality or the higher self is a sad, sad thing.


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Offlinetooky
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ]
    #1584321 - 05/28/03 08:14 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You know, there was a time last year when I would have tried to defend Islam from that sort of comment. But then I took notice of something. 95% of the turmoil and fucked up situations in the world, where there are rebels kidnapping people and taking civilians hostage and what have you, well let's see: Philippines - Muslims are the terrorists. Russia/Chechnya - Muslims are the terrorists (Maybe Russia is partially at fault but the Russians aren't the ones taking theaters full of hostages. They just kill em all with opiates, but thats another story entirely). Afghanistan - The Taliban were oppresive fuckers. Osama Bin Laden is an assfucker. Indonesia - Nightclub bombings. Yep they did it. For Christ sake. Watch Blackhawk Down. Who were the warlords hording the food. Muslims. Hmmmmm what else. Recently in Nigeria, there was the Miss World Pageant. A paper said something like "Mohammed would have been fine with it and probably would have chosen his wife from the contestants." They than apoligized. Muslim rioters killed 50 random people, burning some alive, as what the paper had said was obviously such a sin. Not that burning people alive is ???? And then there is Kashmir, where it is Muslims of course fight hardline hindus whatever the fuck they are. Probably a fundamentalist sect of Hinduism. God I hate fundamentalists of all kinds.

To be fair, Islam is not the problem, it's the ignorant fundamentalist sects. Unfortunately they are the majority in power. Sure Christianity is fucked too, back in the days of the crusades they acted the same way basically. What am I saying? Organized religion is gayer than asspiracy. It is the most hypocritical asinine racket ever. Look at the Muslim world today. If you don't beleive the same thing as them they feel they have the right to kill you. Christianity was the same way 1000 years ago during the crusades. Fuck them all Godamn there all soooooooooo ignorant it's incredible.



That's the kind of ignorant bullshit that causes half the problems in the world. Do you not think that some of the blame has to lie at the door of the west, stop listening to the crap the media pump out and do some research on the problems in the middle east and their causes. I think you'll find western governments are right in the middle of it.


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"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

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Offlinenemesis
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: tooky]
    #1587087 - 05/29/03 12:05 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

exactly tooky ! .. the media is the one potraying this image, but if you really have a look into the Muslim world you will see .. we have the highest charity rate, we have the lowest alcohol consumption in the world and we have the highest succesful marriage rate .. Fiend; Blackhawk Down was a movie lol .. go to Kuwiet, go to Beaurit and have a look for yourself.

And how many Christians do you hear about on the news which kill people? .. next to none, but America has more deaths by guns in the world then ANY country, and they have the MOST Christians in the world .. Who does the media show when anything happens .. blacks .. when did you last see a white dude on the news for murder?.. please I recommend watching, Bowling for Columbine .. the media is aiming for one thing, ratings .. so before you go calling them ignorant, get informed yourself ! .. "One Man's Terrorist is another Man's Freedom FIghter" .. if you only knew what the west, America, has done to Indonesia, and you lived there, you might considering joining lol.. same goes for Afganhistan .. but I will tell you that one. America offered Osama's parents an offer for drilling oil passages through their country, they denied the offer .. America decided to just do it anyway, and started night bombing Afghanistan, why didnt this show up on the news? .. it sure did on all the news in the Middle East .. then two buildings go down in America, they have to protect their country from the "threat" of terrorism .. they clean out Afghanistan .. more oil is located in Iraq to continue their passages from the sea and thru Afghanistan .. might just get rid of Saddam then because he "might" have weapons to "threaten" us with .. did any of this get through on Western news?.. No, why? .. because they didnt want it =) .. Indonesia was about resources aswell, that time the Wests excuse was "comunism" .. please do some research. And Enjoy lol


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Offlinetooky
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1588050 - 05/29/03 05:27 AM (21 years, 30 days ago)

I should point out that although I understand that the problems we are seeing to day do not lie solely at the feet of the Muslim world, and the west has to change the way it operates, I do not condone any terrorist act.


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Offlinepsilo9com
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: tooky]
    #1589343 - 05/29/03 03:45 PM (21 years, 30 days ago)

Some terrorist acts aren't that bad.

Like if a suicide bomber tries to kill lots of people but only blows himself up. I laugh at that when that happens.

Muslims are peaceful people though, it's just a select few whackos. Every religion has those. I hate jerry falwell about as much as I hate muslim fundamentalists.

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Offlinetoned3f
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: psilo9com]
    #1589375 - 05/29/03 03:52 PM (21 years, 30 days ago)

Fanatics exist in every organized religion. Where are the Christians blowing themselves and others up, you ask? Check Ireland, pal. You never see any Agnostic or Atheist fanatics. Clearly those beliefs are a better choice.

Edited by toned3f (05/29/03 03:53 PM)

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Offlinekristina420
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: moidirus]
    #1590015 - 05/29/03 05:45 PM (21 years, 30 days ago)

____________________________________________________________________
"I think there is a lot of confusion between religion and spirituality. Religion is a structured belief system. One can, as I do, believe in god or a higher level of existance with out being religious. I consider myself a very spiritual person as well as very anti religious. I belive that all religions are nothing more than a politcal tool used by those that wish to rule the week minded, ego bound people that need to be told how to think."
____________________________________________________________________

definately :smile: 


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Offlinedimmo
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1592270 - 05/30/03 06:28 AM (21 years, 29 days ago)

Nemesis said:
Quote:

And how many Christians do you hear about on the news which kill people? .. next to none, but America has more deaths by guns in the world then ANY country, and they have the MOST Christians in the world




For those who think America is a Christian nation....

Quite frankly, I am sick of hearing that the United States is a Christian nation.
Founded by Christians - lets take a look at that.
Quote:

Thomas Paine was the first person to make a public call for American independence from Britain (Common Sense, January 1776).
In the The Crisis (No. II, 13 January 1777), Thomas Paine declared to General William Howe (commander of British forces) that some day the name "the UNITED STATES of AMERICA" will sound as bold & stately in the world and in history as the name of the British Empire.
Thomas Paine was the first to coin the term "United States of America."
Paine thought the Bible blasphemous: the Old Testament said God commanded slaughter or threatened curses; the New Testament said God debauched a virgin engaged to be married.
"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity." (Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, Part II, October 1795)



These are not the words of a "Christian" Founder of America.
And this..
Quote:

One of the hard facts of life is that the United States of America is not a Christian Nation. The following Treaty was made by the United States of America with the Barbary Pirates. It passed the 5th Congress without a hitch. Article 11 was made part of the record to convince the Muslims that the United States of America is not a Christian Nation, and therefore peace could be established between the two nations.
...
extract of Article 11
...
ARTICLE 11
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,4 - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.



here
And now, Thomas Jefferson:
Quote:

Thomas Jefferson: "I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."
-- Six Historic Americans by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short



More Jefferson,
Quote:


Jefferson again: "Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."
More Jefferson: "The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Jefferson's word for the Bible? "Dunghill."




And finally,
Quote:

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous




That says it all.
==================================
The time I most heard the word "Christian", was after September 11 on American news.
I was shocked, and it was immediately noticed the increase in the use of the word.
Whether it was GWB, or anyone else, almost everyone said it. Suddenly, on every tv broadcast regarding Sept 11, "this Christian nation", "we Christians"...
If they aren't Christians, they shouldn't say they are.
If they are Christians, God knows their motives, their thoughts. God doesn't like those who only turn to him in times of need, and ignore him the rest of the time.

How quickly that 'Christian' spirit has gone away now. It is like a faint memory.


GOD BLESS AMERICA!

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OfflineLostMetropolis
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: dimmo]
    #1593516 - 05/30/03 02:25 PM (21 years, 29 days ago)

The same can be said for all that forced patriotism crap. A mass number of people are killed and suddenly everyone is patriotic and sticks an american flag bumper sticker on their car. And those public service commeercials make me want to vomit. Where were all the flags before 9/11, hmm?

Silly americans!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: dimmo]
    #1594496 - 05/30/03 07:01 PM (21 years, 29 days ago)

Perhaps America wasn't founded as a Christian nation, but it is today quite possibly the most religious Christian nation in all the world. A higher percentage of people in American attend church regularly than in any European nation.


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Offlinedimmo
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #1594890 - 05/30/03 08:47 PM (21 years, 29 days ago)

^^^

The majority of Americans are NOT Christian... the majority of Americans PROFESS to be Christian.

There is a difference.

There are true Christians in America, those who really follow Christ and live the life that Christ and God asked of us... but those are few.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: dimmo]
    #1595044 - 05/30/03 09:24 PM (21 years, 29 days ago)

Don't give me that crap about who's a "true" Christian and who isn't, because obviously most Muslims here would say that all those terrorists aren't "true" Muslims. Every person professing to be Christian is a true Christian in their own mind. It's not for you to judge who is and who isn't.


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Offlinenemesis
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #1595125 - 05/30/03 09:54 PM (21 years, 29 days ago)

I HIGHLY agree it was not founded as a Christian country, it was founded mostly by Masonites .. now thats scary .. I think it was something like 83% of the founders were Masons.. and I highly agree with Jeffersons thoughts of Christianity .. but silversoul7 is right, it is now, "the most religious Christian nation in all the world."


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Offlinearabmobster
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1595285 - 05/30/03 11:18 PM (21 years, 29 days ago)

whats wrong with suicide bombers

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OfflineMistaSmokupalot
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1595286 - 05/30/03 11:19 PM (21 years, 29 days ago)

I'm not sure of you heard about my trip. Big deal, made my lfie decison to stop eating mushrooms, and to learn to respect them before I eat again. (probably will start eating in 5 years or so, i really need a break).

I had a very harsh, bad, whateveer you call it trip. I saw my freind turn into lucifer, and then turn into jesus, bad thoughts were going in and out of my mind, andI thought that I was very, very slowly dieing. But throughout the entire trip, god had been there with me. It was as though he saw every single thing I was doing (I hallucinated eyes everywhere, two eyes looking at me, different sizes, everywhere around the room I was in...it was scary). I read the bible outloud for about 3 hours before my freind decided to call someone.

When I was expereincing this madness, it seemed as though god was there, and was giving me a message to include him in my life. It seemed as though I had betrayed god because I didn;t even own a bible..l0l...

All I can say is that mushrooms have weird powers, and they do things to you, make you learn, discover new things. If your freinds choice is to follow god and read the bible etc, let him. He's better off like that..I myself have not changed since this trip, I srtill do the same things, I still dont own a bible, I;'m doing drugs still having sex etc (in muy trip I had confessed that having sex and doing drugs were sinful acts and that I should not be commiting them)..l0l.

leave yer buddies alone, they expereinced something that you have not, and just give them approval....why is it so bad to ahve people that like god around, unelss they are being openely gay about it etc.

peace.


--------------------

Edited by MistaSmokupalot (05/30/03 11:21 PM)

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Offlinevalour
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: MistaSmokupalot]
    #1595623 - 05/31/03 02:19 AM (21 years, 28 days ago)

Wow, it's amazing... the intolerance here.

I'm not a Christian (although I used to be a fundie), but thanks to shrooms, I better understand where they fit in the tapestry. And while I consider myself more of a Taoist, it's a matter of seeing where people are coming from, what they want out of life and their worldview. My concept of God is simply a unifying force in the universe, may or may not be sentient, anthropomorphic and with white beard - don't know, don't care. But it's largely beyond our conception. If it comforts someone in life to think of someone who specifically thinks of them and can interact like another sentient being, hell, more power to them. And metaphorically, as far as I'm concerned, it works anyway. Islam is something I view in much the same way -- they have their truths to contribute, even if you don't believe in God, they have produced art, science, literature and so on which influence and enrich the world. (er, so did the Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, etc.)

And I can't believe someone actually spouted the "Problem of Evil" as if it was something new that would suddenly bring the religious world to its knees.

People who want to blame religion for the ills of the world are missing the point: it's that People Suck. Period. Religion is just a convenient excuse for the people doing bad things in the name of "God" and for those who want to have a handy rationale for it and think they're special for supposedly figuring it out. If you're so hot-fired up about the Big Bad Evil Christians or Muslims or whatever, why not do what you can to make the world a better place, instead of spewing more hate? It's called hypocrisy, and one doesn't have to be religious to show it.


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."

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Offlinedimmo
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1595656 - 05/31/03 02:42 AM (21 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

I HIGHLY agree it was not founded as a Christian country, it was founded mostly by Masonites .. now thats scary .. I think it was something like 83% of the founders were Masons.. and I highly agree with Jeffersons thoughts of Christianity .. but silversoul7 is right, it is now, "the most religious Christian nation in all the world."




I agree with you, America is the most religious country in the world. They worship the god of money.

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OfflineSheepish
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: valour]
    #1595899 - 05/31/03 09:32 AM (21 years, 28 days ago)

I'm fine with others being Christian, but it's when they start pushing their views onto me, and treating me like shit just because I don't believe in God. THAT'S when I get really sick of it. I believe life should be - live it your own way, leave me alone. And I just wish a week would go by where I don't have idiots trying to convince me that life is somehow better with God, and telling me that I'm going to Hell, or basically being a dick to me and treating me like I'm scum. I've met some pretty two faced Christians, who claim to be (they just go to Church and follow the Lord, and not his teachings) and are basically rotton people. These people CANNOT accept that I don't want to live life their way, and I get shit for it. Every time I go to my friend's house, her step father is going to be a complete dickhead to us for no reason really, except that we're a bunch of "hellions" corrupting his step daughter. He doesn't even ATTEMPT to say Hi or basically talk - he grunts at us. Her mum is nice though, and she's one of those rare Christians that are nice enough to tolerate her daughter and her friends for what they are.
My friend's uncle, well, he's an abusive, loud mouthed, redneck, racist, narrowminded fuck who beats his kids when they don't obey him or do exactly what he wants them to (this includes how they look, what they do, what they listen to, their friends). I've been in his house while he just openly beat his kid for not getting changed out of his uniform after school. The TINIEST thing, not even worth yelling about. He snapped my other friend's CD tonight because he didn't like it.
Those tolerant Christians, I like them - they're open minded enough to not bother me about what I believe in and treat me like a human being.
Those intolerant Christians (or any religion) make me sick. I hope they die and realise what a bunch of morons they were for trying to brainwash and force me into THEIR life.

By the way, this isn't a personal attack on anyone in this thread, it's just a rant about the things I have to put up with in life due to religious fanatics.

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1595928 - 05/31/03 09:55 AM (21 years, 28 days ago)

I love the bible  :confused: :crazy:  :

"22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed."
- Deuteronomy 28

"For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:"
- Deuteronomy 32

A man in New York gave me this "shit"......... 

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Annom]
    #1595954 - 05/31/03 10:12 AM (21 years, 28 days ago)

I read this a while ago on www.toolband.com in the News :

WWW.TOOLBAND - SUCKS.COM
In the last few days I have received dozens of emails from Tool fans telling me to check out this "hilarious anti-Tool website." Well, I recently did so, and the e-mailers were right; it is kind of amusing to read their rants about Tool?s lyrics and the contents of the website written by Kat and yours truly. But it?s not hard to figure out the agenda of those responsible for the site, as the first thing one notices is the familiar ?fish? symbol of certain Xtians (actually a stylized slanted vagina - such was the genius of Jesus and his true disciples [A COVEN of Twelve plus One = 13], knowing that the masses would condemn what they, themselves, treasured, leaving such a precious (and RARE) commodity to the cult/secret society that lies (did) at the core of true Christianity. Can anyone have any doubts that Jesus, himself, was a practicing magician schooled in the ancient (Gnostic) Egyptian mysteries (now do the Biblical Three Wise Men, or MAGI [from which we derive the word Magic] make more sense? And how about ALL THOSE MISSING YEARS SPENT IN EGYPT? Throughout history, other seekers of the ancient mysteries and "those in the know" have done the same thing as Jesus?s disciples did in their synoptic gospels - saying one thing to the masses while concealing their true message in a coded shadow language meant only for other ?players? (such as the nocturnal initiation of the resurrection of Lazarus). Even the nazis attempted to do this, condemning all occult Fraternal Orders, secret societies, etc. so that they, alone, could gain and utilize the power of such secrets. Does anyone deny that the architects of the Third Reich were not members of an occult Fraternity not unlike those that they outlawed?

He that is wounded in the stones (testicles), or hath his privy member (penis) cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. - Deuteronomy 23:1

And a nice example of a CONtradiction:
I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. - Genesis 32:30
No man hath seen God at any time. - John 1:18
And I (god) will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts; but my face shall not be seen. - Exodus 33:23

And if that is too cryptic for you, how about this passage:

"To you has been given the secret of the Kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in PARABLES; so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn again, and be forgiven." - Jesus to Mark 4:10

Personally, I didn?t think the Toolband-Sucks website was worth the bother, but I am pleased to post Victor?s response (followed by my own footnotes and a brief commentary, with quotes taken from the Bible, many of which were published in The Heretic?s Guide to the Bible - The Worst of the Bible - over 100 passages reveal the Bible to be a contradiction-ridden exercise in hate, misogyny, domination & submission, and sadistic power fantasies):

Hello! I recently visited your intriguing web-site: www.toolband-sucks.com and I must say BRAVO for a site well constructed! Needless to say, however, as the lesser left hand of the Infernal Dark One, I must insist that your coverage of Crowley be a bit more thorough. Come on - - you can at LEAST try to elaborate on the man?s bad aspects! He was bisexual, a drug abuser, a Satanist, and SCOTTISH! Surely you don?t want to leave out that. The man was not only a sodomite, he wore SKIRTS! (Kilts, skirts - skirts, kilts -- it?s all semantics as far as I can tell.)

The sensationalism and hype that your site is generating is causing TOOL?s record sales to sky-rocket. (Well, they wouldn?t be so bloody high if the parents your site is designed to target weren?t busy DESTROYING all of their kids? TOOL albums! Every time a copy of UNDERTOW goes up in flames, Junior just decides to go buy himself another copy.* What does that mean for those associated with the band? MO? MONEY! )

So, again - - well done! But do turn up the vitriol, deary.

Consider yourself...

ILLUMINATED!

Pacem Vobiscum

Victor T. Cypert 33*

baphomet257@yahoo.com

Neophyte, Initiate, High Initiate, Adept, Knight of the Royal Secret, Prince of the Inner Temple, Commander of the Secret Order, Initiate of the Seventeen, Sublime Prince of the Dark Arts, Outer Custodian of the Baphomet, Inner Custodian of the Baphomet, Beholder of the Secret Flame, Grand Elect Mysophilote, Grand Conservator of the Mystery of Sirius, Perfect Initiate in the Tradition of the O.T.O., Invisible Agent of the Orient, Archon of the Order A.?. A.?., and Supreme Commander of the ?Order of Shig.?*

A couple of footnotes and a brief commentary by BMB:

* What these parents fail to realize is that there is a powerful subliminal message encoded in every record, CD, etc. that in the event that one is destroyed, the owner should immediately go buy another copy. Think I?m kidding? How many of you have bought (or obtained through other means) a new copy after your first one was scratched, stolen, lost, removed by a guardian, etc.? I thought so.

* Order of Shig. Shig is a very mysterious substance as anyone in the P.U.P. Lodge can readily attest. It may be similar in some ways to the thrilling vapor or mysterious gas called S?ngac (a violet gas that is an emanation of the Mauve Zone). It would be unwise to speak further of this substance at this time.

"If you take the cruel passages, the verses that inculcate eternal hatred, verses that writhe and hiss like serpents, you can make a creed that would shock the heart of a hyena. It may be that no book contains better passages than the New Testament, but certainly no book contains worse. Below the blossom of love you find the thorn of hatred; on lips that kiss, you find the poison of the cobra. The Bible is not a moral guide." - Robert Infersoll

The Toolband - Sucks website contains a warning to parents about the band, Tool:
"It is highly suggested that parents inspect their children?s? CD collection for "Tool" and review the CD so that they may consult with their child about the music and remove it from their collection..."
"If your child has Internet access, be aware that he or she may be able to obtain this music from various places in the Internet that allow downloading of music."
- Parents Against Violence

I might suggest that if they?re against violence so much, that they immediately burn any copy of the Bible that they can lay their hands on. Is there any book that contains more violence than the Bible? I mean that most glorious of unfulfilled prophecies known as THE END OF THE WORLD!

But the end of all things is at hand... -I Peter 4:7

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. - I John 2:18

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -Psalms 137:9

HE THAT SPARETH HIS ROD HATETH HIS SON. - Proverbs 13:24

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. - Proverbs 23:13-14

...and my personal favorite (let this be a warning to all you young Tool fans):

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. - Deuteronomy 21:18-21

"The mind that becomes soiled in youth can never again be washed clean. I know this by my own experience, and to this day I cherish an unappeasable bitterness against the unfaithful guardians of my young life, who not only permitted but compelled me to read an unexpurgated Bible through before I was fifteen years old. None can do that and ever draw a clean, sweet breath again this side of the grave." -Mark Twain

It?s also funny to read what they say about our mentioning of Aleister Crowley and magick, but I?ll let those interested check this out for themselves. First though, take a minute and study the following:

Apo pantos kakodaimonos

Good, you are now sufficiently hypnotized and will ignore their message about Tool?s use of mind control on their loyal fans who read the website.

BMB

TOOLBAND.SUCKS - THE CONTINUING SAGA
I recently received the following e-mail from someone who investigated the links on the Xtian site:
"Well, I?ve spent some time talking to the guy who?s articles on hypnosis and magick are linked from www.toolband-sucks.com (Todd Stark) and he hasn?t even heard of Tool nor their music. He enjoys lots of Crowley?s stuff and wasn?t aware that his articles were linked from the site. He?s been getting hate and flame mail apparently from Tool fans thinking that he?s in connection with the site when he really has no idea what?s going on. He?s just a 44 year old guy who studied magick and various religions for years and his articles were asked to be used on a magick site and he agreed. The fact that they?re linked from www.toolband-sucks.com isn?t his fault at all. Hopefully you can post this on the main page or something to clear his name. He said he?d appreciate any help. Spiral Out, Rich."
Actually, we figured that "toolband-sucks" had used the article without the guy?s permission, just like they violated copyright laws by posting Tool?s lyrics and the contents from the band?s official website (having taken much of Kat?s and my own writings and highlighted the ?offending? or ?telltale? words and sentences as opposed to actually commenting on them in an intelligent manner). The whole thing is actually quite ridiculous if you really think about it: posting all of the offensive lyrics, essays, and such and making them available to those who otherwise might not ever read them. This would be like showing hours upon hours of porno videos on a website that warns against the evils of pornography (actually, when Xtian priests are caught watching kiddy porn and the likes, their most often used excuse is that they were doing so for research, so that they could sound the alarm for others who are ignorant (innocent?) of such things.
To be perfectly honest, I don?t really give a healthy shit that those responsible for the toolband-sucks site are using my thoughts and words (intellectual property) without permission. I?m confident that those who are worthy will be able to make their own decision as to whether or not they want to further explore these little mysteries we take such delight in posting on the site. As for my stance on Christianity, having studied it for decades, I have come to the same conclusion as many scholars of comparative religion (having graduated from Miskatonic University with a degree in that area, myself) that the canonized Bible is riddled with errors and inconsistencies, with the original texts having been compiled, corrupted, edited, expurged, ?improved?, falsified, etc. by less than divine, ordinary humans with political and financial agendas. This is why we often find two incompatible ?portraits? of Jesus?s life, teachings, and death in that book. I highly recommend to those interested in learning more about the message of Christianity to read "The Dead Sea Scrolls" discovered in Qumran in 1947, and the Gnostic "Nag Hammadi" library unearthed in 1945, as well as the texts known as "The Apocrypha."
Textual corruption is less likely to have occurred with these recently discovered documents (so damn embarrassing to Xtianity), in contrast to those voted (NOTE: even the votes on the ballot of the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. weren?t unanimous) into the canonized Bible (after being doctored up by those with "deftly censorious pencils... and mighty creative and imaginative pens.") Along with these important archaeological finds, I suggest the following books:
"The Essene Odyssey" and "The Passover Plot" by Hugh Schonfield. "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels. "Jesus the Magician" and "The Secret Gospel" by Morton Smith, and "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" by John M. Allegro. Also, "The Messianic Legacy" by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh & Henry Lincoln.
For those wanting more information about "The Heretic?s Guide to the Bible" (Chaz Bufe, Editor), the pamphlet (for that is really what it is) was published by the Sharp Press in 1987 and then republished in 1992. "All passages cited in the pamphlet are taken from the King James version of the Bible, with the sole exception of Romans 3:7-8 which was taken from the Revised Standard Edition. The wording of this passage in the King James version is so muddled as to be nearly incomprehensible."
In the past week or so I have received thousands of e-mails written by fans of the band who wanted to express their feelings about the toolband-sucks site. Most of these were extremely well written (and often quite heart felt) and contained relevant points with regards to the hypocrisy of the "toolband-sucks" site that even I had not considered. I want to thank all those who sent me their comments and opinions, including those who forwarded me emails that they launched like Titan missiles to the Xtian site. It is evident by recent changes in wording (and attitude?) on that site that these hit their intended target.
BMB

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Offlinevalour
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1595989 - 05/31/03 10:32 AM (21 years, 28 days ago)

Of course, and I understand the utility of a rant 8-)
But bad people can be found in any grouping, really - Christianity simply is a Very Strong social force in Western society, and one that mainline and fundamentalist viewpoints reinforce as one of a power hierarchy and aggressive evangelism. I'm standing by my People Suck dogma. Asshole is asshole, no matter what special hat they think they have. An asshole simply thinks he has God's backing if he's a Christian asshole.
Counterexamples would be that many - most, I'd say - are simply trying to live their lives peaceably, with varying degrees of success (Christianity has it's own perspective on this, that all fuck up and fall short of perfection. Ok, I don't think that's how it says it, but you get what I mean). And I've met some who live wonderfully as Christians, and it never involves yelling, telling people they're going to Hell or Jerry Falwell.

Heh, good thing it was you who responded with this - I like you and have seen much cool/peaceful perspective in your posts, so I was able to read it with that in mind ;-)
However, I'm often confused when people talk about it being shoved down their throats as adults...not at all calling you a liar, but I'm never confronted by evangelical Christians at work, in the streets, anywhere (except when I go someplace where I'd specifically expect them, such as church or an abortion clinic) - where do you encounter them?
I learned to spot them pretty well from my own fundamentalist days, but they always just kinda circle and leave like a curious shark.
Heh.


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."

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OfflineSheepish
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: valour]
    #1597041 - 05/31/03 09:14 PM (21 years, 28 days ago)

It's not so much the religion being shoved down my throat, but having people trying to encourage me to go to Church with them, or they go on about how sad they are for you that you don't believe and that they'll pray for you, or watching them try to force it onto your friends. I had a girl I knew from school preach to me for over an hour about how I needed God to be happy and to go to Church with her. She couldn't understand that I was perfectly happy as I was.
The other instance is my chick friend's family. In this case they're not forcing their religion, BUT they're basically shunning me and refusing to treat me like a human being (and I'm not even an asshole to them, I have been pleasant to them ever since I had to confront them). My friend is 21, but she still has her asshole of a step dad trying to control her life. She pays board, but she isn't allowed to have any posters of "the devils music" on the walls. And there was the whole incident of the Satanic Bible (she asked if I could lend it to her, so I did) and then her step dad went snooping through her room, found the book, and destroyed it. I went around to confront him and get the money I paid for the book back from him. He told me to never bring anything like that into his house again (I didn't even step into his house with the book, she asked, I gave to her), tried to give me a huge lecture about the Lord, and refered to his step daughter as a GUEST in HIS house. I was sickened. I told him to go fuck himself and left.
Her auntie also has some kind of problem with me, and acts weird when I am around, but her mum and her cousin (both Christians) always say Hi, chat to me, etc.
I do agree with the notion - people are assholes. That's why I put intolerant Christians (or ANY religion for that matter) in my last post.
Luckily, I don't encouter people trying to preach to me on the streets, and if they did, I'd ignore them fairly easily. It's usually just in the circle of friends (usually the parents/relatives of someone's family, especially if they're DEVOUT Christians). They look down upon you, and treat you like scum. I have that under control though - my chick friend basically lives at her b/f's house now, so when I go around to see her, I don't have to put up with her step dad :grin: 

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1597061 - 05/31/03 09:24 PM (21 years, 28 days ago)

Damn, I didn't know they had those hardcore Bible-thumpers in New Zealand. I thought that was a mostly American thing. Guess I was wrong.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineSheepish
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #1597089 - 05/31/03 09:40 PM (21 years, 28 days ago)

Nah, NZ is a quite religious country. The bible thumpers are quite active, and we have a strongly family values Christian party in coalition with the main party who who got the majority of the votes. United Future only got about 7% of the votes.
The Churches got into a big fuss when Marilyn Manson toured here a few years ago. I can think of many bands more offensive than Manson - namely Slayer. They have toured many times without Churches trying to get them barred from entering NZ. A funny note, the venue Slayer played at was right across the road from a Church.
For the most part, it isn't too bad, but sometimes it can frustrating.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1597162 - 05/31/03 10:23 PM (21 years, 28 days ago)

Your right Sheepish .. I cannot stand intolerant relegious people of any kind, you are entitled to think and beleive what and however you choose, I dont mind people informing me of relegion .. but its different when they look down upon you because they do not beleive what you do .. if any Muslim does this to anybody you only need to say one thing, "I dont serve you", because no one has the right to judge anyone on this planet like that, only the supreme judge, the All-Knowing .. only in our eyes everyone is equal, I and I .. and the Quran says so.


--------------------
May Peace and fellicity smile on those who seek it.

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Offlinevalour
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1597688 - 06/01/03 02:36 AM (21 years, 27 days ago)

This kinda makes me miss my Sufi friend :frown:


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."

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OfflineDanJohnHarris
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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: valour]
    #5598881 - 05/06/06 08:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by DanJohnHarris

Reason for deletion: privacy


Edited by DanJohnHarris (05/06/06 08:37 PM)

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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5598951 - 05/06/06 08:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ha dude i don't think they were referring to a persons IQ when they were calling christians stupid they were referring to the fact that they believe in completely ridiculous beliefs which they take for granted.


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OfflineDanJohnHarris
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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5599210 - 05/06/06 10:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by DanJohnHarris

Reason for deletion: wanna


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5599273 - 05/06/06 10:41 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DeathCompany said:
Ha dude i don't think they were referring to a persons IQ when they were calling christians stupid they were referring to the fact that they believe in completely ridiculous beliefs which they take for granted.




Actually, they were merely prejudiced and hateful people who like to make excuses for persecuting those they do not understand, based solely upon a feeble-minded grudge against a religion.

Don't think you can pick one single thing out of a long argument, make a sarcastic reply to it, and somehow win. The only person fooled by that would be yourself.

Whatever excuses you hide it with, you are merely a prejudiced person who is belittling people he does not know due to his own dislike for their faith.

I wouldn't make arrogant assumptions about you just because of what religious beleifs you happen to have. I know that doing so would be unfair and hateful. Perhaps you should rethink who precisely is the fool.

Thinking less of someone merely because of their religion is no different from hating a black man for being black. "those stupid christians"... "those stupid niggers"... they're both idiotic statements from a hateful mind, and neither prejudice is any less foolish.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5599827 - 05/07/06 01:20 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with the poster. I am a Christian. But have found myself often having trouble defining what it means. I like to keep an open mind but I get fed up when people buy all these things scientists tout as proof. There are so many possiblities for them to be wrong, I don't claim to have all or even alot of the answers but I do believe that our existance isn't a mathematical probability and that there is a force (God if you will) behind everything. I have found some drugs (I hate the negative conontations associated with that word) to really open up how limited our view is. Just because the mechanics of something can be explained doesn't explain the reason for it. I am very interested in things like synchrocity, time, energy, how randomness causes equality (ie shaking up a bottle with two different colours will create a perfect distribution between the two, and how everything is constantly heading towards melding but keeps being seperated by events (think mountains eroding to flat land but then an earthquake or volcano creates more mountains. Anyways I've rambled enough. I think we all suffer from a limited perspective and I enjoy doing things and thinking in ways that broaden mine.


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OfflineHugh
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5599876 - 05/07/06 01:43 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned (long post), but has anyone ever read Heaven and Hell by Aldous Huxley? One of the appendices to the essay had some pretty mind-blowing information in regards to Christianity.

Here's a little summary:

Basically, back in the day, Catholics used to be big into self punishment type things. This would include fasting (to an extreme) and beating oneself with a whip. Well it just so happens that doing either of these can cause large hallucinations which is the reason why there used to be so many reports of Catholics having visions and speaking with angels and what not.

Fasting lowers the efficiency of the brain making it much more prone to having hallucinations. More importantly though, fasting lowers the amount of a chemical called niacin in the bloodstream. This part is a bit more difficult to explain as it had a lot of coverage in Heaven and Hell: Niacin is responsible for repressing hallucinations. It helps keep the brain focused on what is pertinent to a person's life. It represses all the information in the brain that really has no purpose in everyday life.

Beating oneself causes a massive adrenaline rush (they were adrenaline junkies -_-). A certain chemical (forget the name) is left behind in the bloodstream after adrenaline is released. This chemical is known for causing hallucinations when there are large enough concentrations in the bloodstream. The adrenaline rush caused by beating oneself is more than sufficient to cause hallucinations.

So, hallucinating has long been the cause of people becoming very religious. (No wonder Jesus heard the devil talking to him when he fasted in the desert -_-).

Quote:

Konnrade said:
Thinking less of someone merely because of their religion is no different from hating a black man for being black. "those stupid christians"... "those stupid niggers"... they're both idiotic statements from a hateful mind, and neither prejudice is any less foolish.




Actually they are quite different: a person't religion is a personal choice while someone's race really is not... For me, it comes down to an intelligence issue.

The belief in religion is unintelligent and/or desperate and/or based upon personal weakness. That's not to say that people that believe in a religion are unintelligent in general, just that the belief in religion is specifically unintelligent.

The vast majority of my friends are Christian and always have been. However, there are many good reasons for hating Christians: money scams, wasting society's resources/time, the Crusades, responsibility for making the AIDS epidemic in Africa worse than it should have been, pedophelia (and lack of taking responsibility for), the Inquisition... Of course, these don't apply to all christians (except wasting society's resources/time). However, all Christians still are responsible for purveying a lie and a good amount of Christians are still responsible for supporting a regime that holds responsibility for things mentioned earlier.

Edited by Hugh (05/07/06 02:04 AM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Hugh]
    #5600051 - 05/07/06 02:52 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I would of course concede that racial prejudice is against those who didn't choose to be a member of that group.

But, nonetheless, religious prejudice is a hatred of someone because they belong to a group. To hate someone because they are christian is to ignore them as a person and to instead view them as something less than human. It is to treat them as merely a conduit through which you can lash out against the religion as a whole. It is by no means any less forgivable than persecuting an ethnic group.

Of course, a person has a choice to change their own religious beleifs, but I think most people would agree that it would be a bad move to change one's religious orientation merely because a few idiots chose to persecute them for it.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5600582 - 05/07/06 10:11 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DanJohnHarris said:
Why do you think their beliefs are rediculous? How do you believe the universe came into existence, the big bang? Now THAT is something to be called rediculous, even if it's true. The idea that something comes from nothing... and not just any old something. The universe!




The big bang theory doesn't claim that everything came from nothing. It claims that the universe as we know it was formed by a large explosion.

There is no Alfa or an Omega. The elements that make up our cells and the earth that we live on, were always in existence and always will be in existence.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5600654 - 05/07/06 10:36 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

show me a christian that proves himself with hardbound leather bibles, posters and shrines, and i will show you a very confused person.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: kotik]
    #5600666 - 05/07/06 10:40 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
show me a christian that proves himself with hardbound leather bibles, posters and shrines, and i will show you a very confused person.



HUH????


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: kotik]
    #5600679 - 05/07/06 10:45 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

show me a christian that proves himself with hardbound leather bibles, posters and shrines, and i will show you a very confused person.





In this world, where NOTHING is known with absolute certainty, any proclaimed "truth" is nothing more than an assumption.
As is your post.
As is mine.


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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Asante]
    #5600724 - 05/07/06 11:05 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

And, I might add, as is science.

Science is measurably easier to prove than religious beleifs, but nonetheless religions are based upon perceived facts and truths.

For example, christianity centers around a certain amount of blind faith. However, that is not to say that there are not a series of logical arguments in favor of that faith. I would go into detail, but I'd have to do a bit of research in order to give accurate examples and quotations; and I somehow doubt anyone would care enough to make it worth my effort.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineLion
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Asante]
    #5600814 - 05/07/06 11:40 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:In this world, where NOTHING is known with absolute certainty, any proclaimed "truth" is nothing more than an assumption.
As is your post.
As is mine.


Well said. One might say that we are all intrinsically agnostic.

In my trips I have come across -- seemingly spontaneous, coming from some inner wellspring -- the leitmotifs, concepts and figures from a number of religions. During a bad trip I called out to Jesus asking why he had forsaken humanity. During my last trip I gained sudden profound insight into things I couldn't come close to defining in a sober state of mind: the dharma-body, the mandala, karma, et al. But then there's the other weird shit that resonates in my trips, like UFOs and Terence McKenna's TimeWave and the Mushroom-body. I have only my intuitions and experiential knowledge to go by, and try to assume nothing. It makes every day EXTREMELY interesting.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5600885 - 05/07/06 12:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:Science is measurably easier to prove than religious beleifs, but nonetheless religions are based upon perceived facts and truths.


Science cannot really be proven, since the definition of 'prove' you are using is one that is endemic to science per se. Science does not prove anything, least of all itself; it seeks to ascertain the 'probability' (a rather paradoxical term in itself) of observed trends continuing.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Lion]
    #5600890 - 05/07/06 12:31 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, that's my understanding of the matter as well. I just failed to include such a statement in my post.

I doubt I could have said it that well, though.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Offlinewiggles
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Lion]
    #5600904 - 05/07/06 12:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'm a christian. I'm not stupid - hell, I'm a scholar. Why am I a christian? No, I don't believe that jesus was the son of god in any way beyond our all being children of god. I think thats what he meant when he said "If I am, I am" when he was asked.

I'm a Christian because the pure, simple beauty of what the religion is based on is something simple enough that everyone can see it, and apply it more like a philosophy. You'd be hard pressed to say that a guy, undergoing immense amounts of torture, and ultimately giving up his life for what he believed was forgivness of the mankind's sins isn't an amazing thing.

If people learned to use religion as a teacher and philosophy - not use it as a literal translation or try to infer its teachings, religion, all religion, could be something amazing.

There's nothing wrong with religion, there's something wrong with people.

Religion for me:
"Do not kill! Do not rape! Do not steal!
These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
These are not polite suggestions. These are a cause of behavior.
And those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost."

You should watch the movie Dogma, also - it might open your eyes a little about religion and what it can be. After all, you big bad athiests don't have anything to be afraid of if your opinion is solid, right?


--------------------


You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
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OfflineTheGus
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Lion]
    #5600910 - 05/07/06 12:39 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

imho

god exists, now the reason for people getting super religious after an experience with a hallucinogen im not sure of, it seems to me like unintelligent people who can't cope with there being a higher power of sorts

i have on a similar note, gotten very very spiritual after several experiences ive had on drugs (several oobe's and one trip where i was shown how to get out of the flow of time and i was allowed a glimpse at the universal consciousness) so for me those were the reasons i became spiritual (being an athiest who was raised going to a private christian school where i felt like they were brain washing me, but on a similar note i feel the same way about public school they just dont shove dogma down your throat)

but i do strongly believe in both god and the devil, and perhaps any major religion's view of 'god' is viable, but i dont think the devil is evil, he is simply the opposite of god, and god is not all that good, i mean hes still a power hungry, egomaniacal guy who only allows us domonion over about 2 realms, well maybe 3...

anyway, to me the experience with a hallucinogen can open your consciousness to these sorts of things via change, whenever you introduce a new experience to an individual it seems they either are completely overwhelmed by it and give the answers to the questions up to some unknown source, or they go in search of answers for themselves

most people apparently are not aware enough to be aware that they should question the answers?

thats just my opinion however

-peace

and wiggles, i would point out that for the past few thousands of years, most of the worlds major religions' basic belief was you believe what we believe or you die

but you are right, there isn't anything wrong with religion (except people dont learn the answers to the questions themselves, they give it up to faith, but thats just my opinion again) there is something wrong with people.


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
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Edited by TheGus (05/07/06 12:43 PM)

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Offlineezkiel
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: TheGus]
    #5600961 - 05/07/06 01:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

OK So I just read the first part of this thread and I find it unbelievable that the same people who critize the guy for believe in God because of a mushroom/lsd experiance are the same people that use the shrrom experiance to definately say there is no God.

Three Questions for all the ignorant people who right off God's (or Gods') existance for the same reason other people believe in God (A trip).

1. How can a change in your brain chemistry lead you to any conclusion over something such as God?

2. Where did everything come from (Big bang? where did the matter of the bog bang come from? WHo created the starting matter? Maybe God might be the force/matter that caused the universe as we know it now?

3. Why all the hate against people who believe in God?

I hate organized religion as much as the next person but you have to remeber Christianity didn't start or even approach the bastardized version of 'Christianity' that is prevelant today. It was a bunch of people getting together and discussing ideas and their beliefs about God and trying to find purpose in life.

I just hate who these bigots can ridicule someone for becoming religious because of a drug experiance and then in the same breath denounce God because of drug experiance. Am I the only one who finds that a bit contradicting? So much for keep an open mind. I have lost alot of respect for a few people in this community who are only 'open-minded' about drug use and stuff they like and they are just as bad as the Christians who are ignorant about the use of drugs calling them evil and such.

The amount of hate posts in this thread disgust me. At least agnostics are tolerable in that they realize you can't be sure one way or the other. I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone and will listen to all points of view. But we are all allowed to draw our own conclusions, but we should realize that just because we are 'sure' of one thing it doesn't make it ok to ridicule people who are 'sure' of other things.

So much for the more enlightened/open-minded people I once thought this community is all about. Some of the post's sounded like bitter kids who aren't mature enough to respond rationally and without hate because mommy and daddy made them go to church when they were younger or something. Grow up everyone.


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OfflineEdgekrusher
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ezkiel]
    #5601193 - 05/07/06 02:17 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I started to write an arugument, but changed my mind. It's not good manners to talk of religion. You never know who you'll offend.

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OfflineHugh
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: wiggles]
    #5601581 - 05/07/06 04:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wiggles said:
I'm a Christian. I'm not stupid - hell, I'm a scholar. Why am I a Christian? No, I don't believe that Jesus was the son of god in any way beyond our all being children of god. I think thats what he meant when he said "If I am, I am" when he was asked.




Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to organized Christianity's definition of a Christian you do not qualify. (not that it really matters, just a little fun fact[sorry, I like to nitpick :wink: ]).

There is a quote I really like but I forget who said it and exactly how it was stated; it goes something like this: The wisest person knows that there is much that he does not know.

People want answers to every question, but they cannot accept there is much beyond there scope.  So, they hide behind religion.  At least science admits there is much that it does not know, and divides things among theories and laws.

The big bang theory?  To say that this is truth is ridiculous: it is just an idea with some good reasoning behind it.  That's what science says it is.  Criticizing science by saying that this theory isn't true proves your own ignorance of science, as does claiming it to be certainty according to science.

Any world-view that claims to have all the answers (religion does this, science does not necessarily do this) is unintelligent and is often based out of a personal weakness.  Getting back to what I posted earlier, this does not mean that the person as a whole is unintelligent for having such a view.

And what makes one religion right and another wrong?  I do believe that any way of arguing for religion would work universally for almost all religions (not really certain about this, but it makes sense).

I'm sure a lot of people here have seen Dogma.  One thing I liked about that movie was when one of the angels said something like: it's good to have ideas, but when you claim something (referring to religion) beyond that, it creates all sorts of problems.  This is a good thought, but I really didn't like it in context of the movie; this is because in the movie there is one true religion.

Here's a question for you to consider: Would it make you angry if someone had the power to prevent something bad from happening to you, but they did not?  This is what the Christian god does.  Personally, I don't believe in Christianity.  I have no definitive religious view: there isn't anything that would make me believe in one thing over another.  But, if Catholicism (specifying Catholicism because I know more about it) were the true religion, I would hate God for several reasons. 

Ever read the Old-Testament?  Most Christians tend to forget a lot of what happened in it and view God as a more all-friendly type of New Testament God (is God bi-polar?).  According to Catholicism (not me), this really isn't the case.  God gets pissed and rains fire.  It seems almost like a marketing ploy to ignore this part.

I think Catholicism would be more interesting if the Pope still lead armies into battle and lop peoples' heads off -_-.

Just some thoughts...

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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Hugh]
    #5602515 - 05/07/06 08:32 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hugh said:
Quote:

wiggles said:
I'm a Christian. I'm not stupid - hell, I'm a scholar. Why am I a Christian? No, I don't believe that Jesus was the son of god in any way beyond our all being children of god. I think thats what he meant when he said "If I am, I am" when he was asked.




Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to organized Christianity's definition of a Christian you do not qualify. (not that it really matters, just a little fun fact[sorry, I like to nitpick :wink: ]).

There is a quote I really like but I forget who said it and exactly how it was stated; it goes something like this: The wisest person knows that there is much that he does not know.

People want answers to every question, but they cannot accept there is much beyond there scope.  So, they hide behind religion.  At least science admits there is much that it does not know, and divides things among theories and laws.

The big bang theory?  To say that this is truth is ridiculous: it is just an idea with some good reasoning behind it.  That's what science says it is.  Criticizing science by saying that this theory isn't true proves your own ignorance of science, as does claiming it to be certainty according to science.

Any world-view that claims to have all the answers (religion does this, science does not necessarily do this) is unintelligent and is often based out of a personal weakness.  Getting back to what I posted earlier, this does not mean that the person as a whole is unintelligent for having such a view.

And what makes one religion right and another wrong?  I do believe that any way of arguing for religion would work universally for almost all religions (not really certain about this, but it makes sense).

I'm sure a lot of people here have seen Dogma.  One thing I liked about that movie was when one of the angels said something like: it's good to have ideas, but when you claim something (referring to religion) beyond that, it creates all sorts of problems.  This is a good thought, but I really didn't like it in context of the movie; this is because in the movie there is one true religion.

Here's a question for you to consider: Would it make you angry if someone had the power to prevent something bad from happening to you, but they did not?  This is what the Christian god does.  Personally, I don't believe in Christianity.  I have no definitive religious view: there isn't anything that would make me believe in one thing over another.  But, if Catholicism (specifying Catholicism because I know more about it) were the true religion, I would hate God for several reasons. 

Ever read the Old-Testament?  Most Christians tend to forget a lot of what happened in it and view God as a more all-friendly type of New Testament God (is God bi-polar?).  According to Catholicism (not me), this really isn't the case.  God gets pissed and rains fire.  It seems almost like a marketing ploy to ignore this part.

I think Catholicism would be more interesting if the Pope still lead armies into battle and lop peoples' heads off -_-.

Just some thoughts...





:thumbup:


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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5602659 - 05/07/06 09:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DanJohnHarris said:
IQ is a way of classifying intelligence, so how don't they refer to a person's IQ when they call someone stupid?

What do they take for granted?

Why do you think their beliefs are ridiculous? How do you believe the universe came into existence, the big bang? Now THAT is something to be called ridiculous, even if it's true. The idea that something comes from nothing... and not just any old something. The universe!




When they said stupid they meant stupid for believing what they do. It had nothing to do with there actual intelligence. I don't think anyone really believes if your christian you cant add 1+1.

What  I'm trying to say when the take things for granted is basically "well i read it in the bible so it must be true" They do this without questioning it and thats probably because the ones who do did question it (back in the day) were considered devil worshipers

There's plenty of beliefs that i find completely ridiculous. For example theres the fact that your all knowing and all loving god will make you burn in hell for all eternity if you don't believe in him. Sounds more like a way to get people to join. And personally the big bang theory is a little easier to believe than believing something i read in a fairy tale.

Now don't get me wrong the bible is a good story with some great morals to it but i can only see it as just that , a story. Like other people said Christianity is a good idea but bad people sure as hell fucked it up. IMHO your average christain is a hypocrite :jesus:


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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5602741 - 05/07/06 09:17 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Christianity, to me, has a number of problems, but the religion itself really isn't horrible (it's ethics are set in the right place and it basically preaches the same ideaologies as any other religion).

One of the main problems I personally have with Christianity is that it has the idea built into it that it is the one true religion. This idea is mostly only exclusive to western religions and it allows it's followers to be ego-driven morons. The christian that believes they aren't following the one true religion is the one I respect.

My other problem with it is that it is entirely too easy to claim belief in and to not actually follow. This aspect is exactly the reason it's so popular. There is a level of forgivness built into the religion that no matter how bad you fuck up, you'll be forgiven. This breeds the hypocritical follower that creates the mass stigma towards Christianity.

Jesus had a ton of lessons to teach people, and really, he wasn't much different than many of the other prophets in religious history, but people have taken his ideas and only listened to them to suit their needs. What happened to non-violence, forgivness, and loving thy neighbor?


Christianity is just another religion to me, but the problem lies in the Christians.


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OfflineGeneticDelight
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Veter]
    #5602936 - 05/07/06 10:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

religion is bullshit
spirituality and god are real
religion is just a persons view on god that other people take as their own.
i was an athiest before psychadelics and now I know there is a supreme creator. I dont need a religion to tell me that.. Im content with knowing I have a good soul and there is something greater than me.
Religions freaks just misinterpret god and try to put a belief system behind it all which is silly/


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5602998 - 05/07/06 10:24 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

You do know that christians actually do take the time to question their own faith, don't you?

Nobody is so fervent in their beleifs that they don't question themselves once in a while. Myself I actually arrived at christianity as a RESULT of a long string of questioning beleifs. Eventually the answers unravelled and I decided that the mose sensible choice was indeed to follow christianity.

Not everyone who has a religion is deaf, dumb, and blind.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: GeneticDelight]
    #5603011 - 05/07/06 10:27 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

once I ODed on meth. Through that experience I realized there is a good and evil. Because I felt the evil in that trip. lol

Evil is everything bad, delusion, something wrong, sorrow, zero respect for tradition, trickery, feeds of curiosity, control, arrogance, its funny the person perpetuating the evil doesn't even believe in his own beliefs, this ultimately leads to cowardice. Evil is easy, obvious, the tantalizing carrot on the stick, it feeds off your stupidity, until ur up shit creek without a paddle, I would never represent 666

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OfflineShroominFL
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: capliberty]
    #5603044 - 05/07/06 10:37 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'm sure its been said already but i really believe that most people either use religion as an excuse, saying that they have been saved when its really they're own doing. However, that person doesn't believe enough in themselves to admit it.....or people are immersing themselves in religion as a substitute addiction.


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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ShroominFL]
    #5603196 - 05/07/06 11:13 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

You wake up in a ditch one morning covered in blood and vomit. You have no idea where you are.

You've hit rock bottom, and low and behold there's some dude handing out soup and is kind to you. He offers you a potential way to "fix your life".
Jesus :laugh:

I can easily see why this happens. The fact is that reformed christians are often the most "hard out" with their beliefs. GW Bush is a good example Doin crack - DUI, smoking weed, drinking, until he found that special someone.....
Christians have really good support networks, and its just like a form of rehab, but where you are surrounded by intensly friendly faces and ever present unfledgling support.

Afterall how many happy athesiests are you gonna successfully convert, in comparison to drug addicted guys who havent got their shit together?

The answer my friend, isnt blowing in the wind......

It's sweet fuck all.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5603737 - 05/08/06 01:47 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
You do know that christians actually do take the time to question their own faith, don't you?

Nobody is so fervent in their beleifs that they don't question themselves once in a while. Myself I actually arrived at christianity as a RESULT of a long string of questioning beleifs. Eventually the answers unravelled and I decided that the mose sensible choice was indeed to follow christianity.

Not everyone who has a religion is deaf, dumb, and blind.




No question here, except in some very rare cases. However the one thing that stands out about this to me is that while it may be true, it is a sin in the eyes of the church to question your faith. My biggest grudge really is against organized religion. It has too many problems associated with it. I don't have too much of a problem with smaller scale, personal beliefs type systems. Personal beliefs at least show some thought on behalf of the individual. One problem I mentioned earlier is that: the two ends of these kind of arguments don't really know either there side or the other side well enough. People on science's side may not know very much about science or the religion that they are arguing against. The opposite is also true. Like another example would be someone bringing up IQ as a measure of intelligence. People don't realize that IQ only measures a few kinds of intelligences that are typically thought of as more useful to succes in educations and further success in the business world in the west. It doesn't measure overall intelligence. (sorry for the tangent, I'm fucked up)

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Hugh]
    #5603957 - 05/08/06 03:39 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

not a christianity god, but after some acid I was convinced there is A god, not the jesus/god/ ten commandments/go to church/ pray every night god... but perhaps a 'good person, clean soul' god.
thats for me anyway, works in mysterious ways

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: indica]
    #5604146 - 05/08/06 07:35 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You do know that christians actually do take the time to question their own faith, don't you?

Nobody is so fervent in their beleifs that they don't question themselves once in a while. Myself I actually arrived at christianity as a RESULT of a long string of questioning beleifs. Eventually the answers unravelled and I decided that the mose sensible choice was indeed to follow christianity.

Not everyone who has a religion is deaf, dumb, and blind.




Sadly many people don't question their beliefs. They simply assume they're correct because some high powered figure in their beliefs said they were correct. During a computer class back in high school a catholic kid started telling me I was going to hell because I wasn't religious (it came up in conversation, but he decided to make a big deal about it). Anyways, he starts asking why I don't believe so I kindly explained that I didn't want to go putting restrictions on my life because of some idea that doesn't make any logical sense to me just so I can avoid some fate that doesn't even correspond with my idea of life after death (which more or less a hole full of rotting corpse delivering needed nutrients, etc to plants sharing our energy with the rest of nature to be reassembled into new plants, animals, etc, not some firery pit of torture) and his only argument was "well, what's wrong with believing? What if there IS a hell? Why don't you just believe to be safe?"

I can only imagine how lost this person must be in life to base his morals and values out of fear for what's going to supposedly happen otherwise. It's clear that this person doesn't really seem to be questioning their religion at all, they just blindly follow it.

My personal views on religion are more that it's just something we've created to tell us how to live our lives. Either because what we're doing isn't working or because we don't feel capable of living by our own rules/values. While this offers a lot of good to some people, others simply can't handle it, or themselves for that matter. The second you question their beliefs they completely lose it, you are satan, you are a devil worshipper, you are a sinner and you are trying to corrupt everyone around you. These are the people who cause people to make fun of religious people, these self labeled "Warriors of God" or whatever they want to call themselves. These people still trying to carry out the crusades within the laws that really make the whole religion look like a joke.

But whatever, as long as you can handle your beliefs without thinking it's your duty to convert everyone or start going insane whenever something suggests that the bible isn't 100% correct or whatever then fine, you have your right to believe in a man sitting in the clouds or whatever it is you chose to worship.

As for the comment on the big bang though, I could be wrong on this but I seem to remember reading/hearing that psychics (far beyong anything I could understand) has shown that there was something like the big bang at some point in time at some point in the universe, whether this was the start of the universe or not though can't be said. I advise you look into it more than I have though before you start bringing it up to sound smart in conversations or something...  :smirk:

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: StickyWater]
    #5604232 - 05/08/06 08:36 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I imagine it has something to do with an instinctual knowledge of a higher power ... which leads to relegion of some form. With the Bible being one of my most verifiable scriptures in existance ... and with "Christianity" being so popular ... it only makes sense for it to spread.

I personally am a Christian but it is my belief that the vast vast majority (99 percent region) of those that claim to be Christian are far from it. When I see anti-Christian discussions, I am not usually surprised because I too would be skeptical judging from these types of people.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5606039 - 05/08/06 06:17 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by DanJohnHarris

Reason for deletion: yeah


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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: Feelers]
    #5606166 - 05/08/06 06:57 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by DanJohnHarris

Reason for deletion: yeah


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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5606247 - 05/08/06 07:22 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

DAMNED IT, LISTEN TO ME SOMEBODY, I HAVE THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER!


They become Christians because they felt -something- and Christianity is the only form of religion/spirituality they know of... Give them some LSD/Mushrooms and some Eastern religion, they'll go with the Eastern religion I suspect...


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5606581 - 05/08/06 08:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DanJohnHarris said:
Then what about all the Christians who have led happy, drug free lives the whole time, from start to finish, and believe in Christianity?





I don't really get what your saying in your post but this brought up another fun fact. Another reason why people are christian and turn out the fucked up way they do is because they basically get brainwashed as kids when they'll believe whatever the hell they hear and stick by it the rest of there life. I remember a similar experience when my parents told me there was a jolly fat man named Santa Claus. Well luckily we can prove hes not real.

Just the other day a little boy at my work came up and talked to me. I noticed he had christian school books such as "Exploring Gods World" for science and something like Learning gods gift of language" for english. So i ask him if he goes to a christain school and he says yes. Then he asks what kind of school i went to. I said a public one and he quickly without even thinking about it says " If you don't go to christain school your going to burn in hell"

Now i know this isn't your beliefs but thats what he thinks he was taught and grow up believing so ( to some extent). Then when hes older hell teach something along the lines to the younger generation. This will escalate and escalate making the religion even worse to no end. This is how IMHO christians got the way they did. The religion changes to what the generations upon generations felt made them comfortable and actually was brainwashed as kids to actually believe as true.


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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5606706 - 05/08/06 09:29 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Then what about all the Christians who have led happy, drug free lives the whole time, from start to finish, and believe in Christianity? Will you give me the same response as the dumb fuck I quoted before you? READ A BOOK. What about the atheists who live drug addicted lives the whole time, or the atheists who, in fits of depression and drug use and ignorance and acknowledging their ignorance, commit suicide and leave bitter notes behind? Your post takes two scenarios, pulls them out of context of reality, and pretends to form an intelligent conclusion from them.

And don't even say "hey, you took a few scenarios out of context too" because it'd be the stupidest thing you've ever done. All it takes is ONE scenario proving a theory to be false, and it proves the theory or idea false for all the others. All I needed was one, you'd have to include every single scenario and if your theory still stands? then it's good to go.




Dude , the point I was making is that drug addicts are especially succeptable to religon and that they are often very "hard out" in their beliefs post "transformation".
- Which I think quantifies with the original thread topic - "whats with everyone becoming christians?"

The downright and destitute are activly "targeted", and they are at a weak point in their lives, so I was saying its not surprising so many friends of shroomery posters are converting (lots of "druggies" here)

As for me having to
Quote:

read a book


, well I'd respond with this........
Someone tells me one day that they can do a rubix cube. OK I say, and I watch them do it.

Now tell me, if some guy runs up and says "here's a book, you should live your life by it because it was written by God himeslf" ok I say - where's his signature? Did you see him write it?
Truth is christians cant ask all the questions like - why are we putting so much faith in a book that we dont about who wrote it or where it came from?

This is how I look at it.

Noone knows what happens when you die or where the universe came from.
Science can't explain it, religion tries to, but ultimately....

NOONE HAS A CLUE. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW.

Your geuss is as good as mine, quit pretending like some random book will have the answers, becuase the author of that had no idea either.
:eek:

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5606718 - 05/08/06 09:35 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Brainwashing never ends well, sadly. When people are psychologically corralled into arriving at a desired point of view, then they are doomed to have many unfortunate tendencies. Like that guy's programmed response to you. That's pretty sickening, really.

I hate it when people are forced into christianity. I may beleive in the religion, and I might like to see others join it, but it needs to be their choice. Nobody should be forced into it. I wasn't forced into it, my parents made sure that I didn't feel obligated to be of their religion. They encouraged me to learn about it and make my own decision. That's important to people. If someone is just brainwashed into a religious standing then they usually don't end up having a very good understanding of it. not only that, but they often wind up harboring a resentment for the religion as well.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5606724 - 05/08/06 09:37 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DanJohnHarris said:
Try again. I've studied this shit beyond your comprehension.



Take note that you have no idea what I'm capable of comprehending.

You sound full of yourself.

Quote:

DanJohnHarris said:
The question that the Big Bang theory answers is "how did everything come into existence?". Not "how did what was in existence continue to exist?" The idea is that, in a vaccuum, in absolute absence of matter and energy, particles (of both matter and energy) pop into and out of existence. The idea is that the singularity (a point of infinite density and infinitely small volume) that composed the matter that formed the Big Bang popped into existence randomly in this same manner.



Source please. I prefer to do the reading on my own, thanks.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5606907 - 05/08/06 10:32 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

The big bang is a not a singular theory but a collection of many that touches on both questions.

The law of angular momentum shoots down the big bang "theory" IMO.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: New2Shroom]
    #5607299 - 05/09/06 01:17 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Understand all of you, that if you feel strongly one way or another about this issue, the Shroomery is probably the least productive forum for you to advocate and make grounds for your stance based on time invested. That said, there does need to be mountains of discussion on many fronts based on what little I've read of this topic, and I wish I had time to try and contribute. For what little I can do, I will voice that I am a christian by the literal, basic premises of the faith, I am not concerned what happens to me after I die, I don't think poorly of anyone for not believing what I do, and I can guarantee you that my life is not easier for believing any of this.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: jekl]
    #5607337 - 05/09/06 01:42 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Your last statement is especially profound.

Life certainly doesn't get any easier when you become a christian. There's a lot to learn about what you've come to accept. Not only that, but suddely a large portion of the world now hates you out of their own intolerance. They don't know you, but they despise you anyways because you happen to be part of a group that they have a bitter prejudice against. "I don't know you, but you christians are all the same. You suck just like the rest of them".

Add onto that the challenges of everyday life and honestly I beleive things get much harder as a christian. It's not as though divine wisdom is ever handed out to you, either. Just like everyone else, a christian you gain wisdom the way everyone else does. You have to go through crisis situations, sometimes traumatic ones. Difficulties that challenge you. And you have to learn from them.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5607631 - 05/09/06 05:32 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

This kinda of inappropriate post for this thread but if interested read on.......

I think religion although flawed trys to explain the parameters of our existence or reality, like the mushroom sets the the parameters to the mushroom reality. There are certain consistent characteristics and laws when living or entering a certain reality even though there are random and unique experiences that occur within it.

I used to be a strong follower of the bible for about a year, then I became like ever body else, pretty dam skeptical about the dogma it presented. Through my experience looking back on it, I think there is a alot good in it and also alot of confusing points that seem outdated and unrelated to this reality. Also the old testament contradicts some of the new. I do understand when Christians say that any true Christian do question there beliefs and thats how they derive their faith. Also I learned how much you can learn through faith first, the bible kinda taught me that, its hard to understand at first how you believe then you will receive but I think there is some logic to it and the bible is largely based on that type of thinking.

Now I've also witnessed the other type of believer, the one that believes blindly and just goes along with it because its like a club and it makes them feel special and superior. These believers often follow people like Benny Hinn. They dread having to explain their beliefs and most often they feel when others try to get them to explain themselves they precieve it as an excuse for others to destroy their beliefs and this is just Satan talking. These people are literal believers, they took Jesus for his word and they don't look no farther than that, I guess this is either ultimitate faith or ultimatie stupiedity but how can you derive between the too.

I was more like the first rather than the latter, usually most people fall into the combination of the two. The first looks at the bible as a philosophical tool while others believe the dogma totally word for word. To me to take it like this kinda takes the bible out of its own context because the bible itself promotes examination.
I think the true believer falls in between both balances, its weird but both have their disposition and both are ignorant and stupid in their stances but both have their role that makes some sense.

To total it all up I see from all angles, why people are put off by religion, why others cherish their faith, while alot are tweeners they just don't quit know what to make of all this so they derive their own personal point of view, and some are so gone they just follow what seems cool to them.

I do believe through my enlightenment through many years of drug experimentation such as shrooms, lsd, ecstasy, meth, pills, bud, etc. there does exist a true dogma its not a total random what ever u make ur world becomes your world thing.

I posted that I realized there is a good and evil through my drug experiences, this right here explains alot to me. Because I used to be the master of my own universe until I was shown that hey there are spirits flying around sometimes haunting you and other times influencing you, but this still could be an illusion right, in a sense it is, this is the hardest question to answer, to distinguish illusion from reality, in a sense illusion is reality, so whats big deal with all this, that illusion defines our reality because it is reality, so how can illusion be real, I guess this is were people get confused, illusions have no bounds, reality does, if illusion is reality then reality has no bounds, and what is reality but an illusion. This doesn't explain why there one in the same but how can you really explain a pardox. So I guess reality has no real limitation so anything can fly right. Lets just say my scope was broaden by extreme drug usage, I know my mortality and vulnerability first hand with some real near death experiences through these drugs, I know there are forces out there that exist everywhere and are extrapulated through the drug and its not a total illusion. I am a survivor my best friend wasn't quite as lucky, he went off the extreme deep end and he try to take me with him, what went through him I could never truly articulate.

Looking back I dismissed any notion of anything pertaining to anything really, that religion is realitive to ones imagination, really I was partially ignorant and only seen the world in a secure sober sense, I thought we were the true creators of our own reality, in a sense I still am, but I know now that I'm not god, that I am human and humans seems to have to live under a certain guideline. That there is a consistent medium of experiences thats universal between all people. Not everything goes, that certain laws and certain parameters do exist, and punishment and merit does come about in some form or fashion. Duh

But anyways I understand that not everything goes meaning you can have the wrong beliefs and they can lead you astray, Ultimately I'm a agnostic, but I don't totally dismiss religion for they at least make an attempt to describe the parameters of our reality that we live in and they make an attempt to illustrate the dogma that does truly exist in our world even if its just an attempt. LOL

Edited by capliberty (05/09/06 09:04 AM)

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5607633 - 05/09/06 05:37 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I just dont get it - by the nature of your guys posts you seem pretty put toghether.
The reason I have "intollerace" for christians, is because they have come to what I can describe as an incorrect following in logic.

Im a science guy - If you tell me Jesus came back to life I want some evidence. I have no problem with it, but I want some scientific evidence.

Why is that so much to ask?

I mean to me I cant believe that people would follow something that has so little proof going for it. I suppose I put them in the same box as a person who tells me that your left shoe is preventing you from being attacked by tigers. No proof, but its worked until now.
It just isnt logical. Why would you run your life based on a non logical conclusion?

The thing is you have to have faith because otherwise the whole thing falls appart. Why should you have faith in a character in a book?

Can you accept that it might be wrong? Can you see that "Faith" could be used to deal with the huge logical problems faced by these beliefs?
Anything in science can be disprooven, its mearly a logical way to examine our existance, using our past to predict our future. And if its broke - dont have Faith, fix it!.

:laugh:

I have a Christian friend, and would call him a logical, but when it comes to religon, I can tell he knows it doenst make sense, but he carries on regardless.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Feelers]
    #5607786 - 05/09/06 08:13 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Feelers said:
The reason I have "intollerace" for christians, is because they have come to what I can describe as an incorrect following in logic.

Im a science guy - If you tell me Jesus came back to life I want some evidence. I have no problem with it, but I want some scientific evidence.

Why is that so much to ask?

I mean to me I cant believe that people would follow something that has so little proof going for it. I suppose I put them in the same box as a person who tells me that your left shoe is preventing you from being attacked by tigers. No proof, but its worked until now.
It just isnt logical. Why would you run your life based on a non logical conclusion?

The thing is you have to have faith because otherwise the whole thing falls appart. Why should you have faith in a character in a book?

Can you accept that it might be wrong? Can you see that "Faith" could be used to deal with the huge logical problems faced by these beliefs?
Anything in science can be disprooven, its mearly a logical way to examine our existance, using our past to predict our future. And if its broke - dont have Faith, fix it!.

:laugh:
I have a Christian friend, and would call him a logical, but when it comes to religon, I can tell he knows it doenst make sense, but he carries on regardless.




My question is what makes you people despise the fact of religion so much? What is it exactly that makes you hate christians so much? It seems that you hate christians just as much as you're grandmother hate's people who uses drugs.

I'll start of with I'm Christian. No I wasn't brainwashed as a child, I found God myself. No I don't go to church, no I don't recite phrases from the bible and no I don't even really read the bible. Yes I use drugs. But I pray each night and I have a personal connection with God.

As for the whole "Proof" matter I BELEIVE that if there was proof then that would make things far too easy. Lets just assume the whole God thing is correct, and God wants to find out who is faithful to the idea of his existence and who isn't. Now in order to have faith you need to do so without "Proof". Get me? If god just came to earth tomorrow, performed some miracles and proved his existence then obviously everyones gonna go "Oh ok he's real I'll believe it now that i see it" but these people aren't believing through faith, they are believing because they can't possibly believe anything other than that.

Another misconception is that people think GOD is this big dude with a beard who sits in a throne somewhere up in the sky. Who says he isn't just a form of energy. Who says god simply isn't the idea of Love. The fact is it doesn't matter what he looks like.

I also think it's a bit hypocritical to celebrate Christmas and Easter if you don't believe in religion. You can't say oh yeah Jesus and all that shits a load of crap, now lets trade some presents or lets trade some easter eggs. Why would you do that? Because everyone else is doing it? :rolleyes:

I should also add that there is more evidence that supports Jesus Christ than there is that supports Julius Ceaser. Who doesn't believe in Ceaser? Remember people just because you can't see something or you can't work out how something works doesn't mean its not there (no matter how much your brain wants to believe that). I was speaking to a friend the otherday (who is not religious) and his mum works in a nursing home and she says that the old people who are religious always die with a smile on their face, the aethists suffer terribly and are always afraid of death. Not that thats the reason why I'm religious. From everyone I've met that has truly devoted themselves to god, they seem to glow, they're ALWAYS fukin happy - they say it's like being on some drug 24/7 - i rekon that's pretty damn cool.

Over the years Science is continually being proven wrong and new theory's are being produced to replace old ones. Fuck people used ot think the world was flat. Although in 2000 years nobody has been able to DISprove the bible. Not one.

Finally I would like to add that I'm not on a mission to convert anyone. If you don't want to share my beliefs that's fine, it's your life and YOU'RE in charge. I'm not going to criticise you or call you stupid or anything like that. But all I ask is that you (aethiests) also respect anyone who chooses to take part in a relion. Stop calling us idiots and morons simply because you don't believe. Obviously nobody can prove either side right or wrong so it's all a matter of belief. Thankyou for reading this far and sorry If I offended anyone in anyways - it was unintentional

:rasta:peace

Shrooma :mushroom2:


--------------------
"[More than] half the people in federal prison are there for drug offences. We're arresting half a million people a year for possessing marijuana. We're locking up kids sometimes for life for their first drug offence. We have no room in our prisons for rapists and child molesters and murderers cause we're filling them up with these non violent drug offenders." - Steven Duke, Yale Law School on 'Hooked: Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way'
-

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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: shrooma]
    #5608359 - 05/09/06 11:34 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .


Edited by soulcircus (05/09/06 11:37 AM)

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: soulcircus]
    #5608451 - 05/09/06 12:02 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Your last statement is especially profound.

Life certainly doesn't get any easier when you become a member of the KKK. There's a lot to learn about what you've come to accept. Not only that, but suddely a large portion of the world now hates you out of their own intolerance. They don't know you, but they despise you anyways because you happen to be part of a group that they have a bitter prejudice against. "I don't know you, but you KKK members are all the same. You suck just like the rest of them".

Add onto that the challenges of everyday life and honestly I beleive things get much harder as a KKK member. It's not as though divine wisdom is ever handed out to you, either. Just like everyone else, a KKK you gain wisdom the way everyone else does. You have to go through crisis situations, sometimes traumatic ones. Difficulties that challenge you. And you have to learn from them.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Being a christian is a choice. By classifying yourself with christianity, you take it's reputation with you.


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I am a fictional character

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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ezsefix]
    #5608962 - 05/09/06 02:20 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

hahaha nice


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OfflineDanJohnHarris
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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5609130 - 05/09/06 03:00 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by DanJohnHarris

Reason for deletion: yeah


Edited by DanJohnHarris (05/09/06 03:02 PM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ezsefix]
    #5609264 - 05/09/06 03:41 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ezsefix said:
Your last statement is especially profound.

Life certainly doesn't get any easier when you become a member of the KKK. There's a lot to learn about what you've come to accept. Not only that, but suddely a large portion of the world now hates you out of their own intolerance. They don't know you, but they despise you anyways because you happen to be part of a group that they have a bitter prejudice against. "I don't know you, but you KKK members are all the same. You suck just like the rest of them".

Add onto that the challenges of everyday life and honestly I beleive things get much harder as a KKK member. It's not as though divine wisdom is ever handed out to you, either. Just like everyone else, a KKK you gain wisdom the way everyone else does. You have to go through crisis situations, sometimes traumatic ones. Difficulties that challenge you. And you have to learn from them.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Being a christian is a choice. By classifying yourself with christianity, you take it's reputation with you.




And I suppose that means that by being a drug user you deserve to be despised as one by people who do not understant?

You took that reputation with you. By your logic, it's fair to call you a mindless and untrustworthy junkie.

Don't be smug, it's not a mature behavior.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineDanJohnHarris
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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: Feelers]
    #5609313 - 05/09/06 03:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by DanJohnHarris

Reason for deletion: wanna


Edited by DanJohnHarris (05/09/06 03:54 PM)

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Offlineezsefix
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5609428 - 05/09/06 04:27 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I hardly think I was being smug Konnrade. Don't get all offended just because I was trying to make a point.

And about being labled a "mindless and untrustworthy junkie," I'm sure a good portion of the kids that I went to high school with think that about me. I also wouldn't lump myself in with all drug users. I don't do heroin, I don't do crack, coke, meth, etc. I'm a fan of psychedelics and some minor stimulants. That's VERY different from being a heroin junky. I know the stigma that comes with drug use, and I don't try to act all victimized about it.

Don't act all superior and arrogant, it's not mature behavior.


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I am a fictional character

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OfflineFeelers
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ezsefix]
    #5609781 - 05/09/06 06:30 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

edit : I moved it to the other topic.

Edited by Feelers (05/09/06 06:51 PM)

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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5610743 - 05/09/06 10:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I did go looking for this stuff on my own last night. I didn't have much time to read everything, but I covered several sources quickly. While I certainly need to do some more in depth research on the subject I have made a few observations about the idea in general.

The main principle that I keep coming back to in my head is that something had to precede the event whether any signs of it are measurable or not. Subsequently, I believe those signs of pre-event existence would be far too distant for any means of detection that we as humans currently posses.

When dealing with something as unknown as singularities, there are so many variables that we can't even imagine that we could stay perplexed for quite some time. Now, try and apply what we know about them to an event that began 13.7 billion years ago and there is plenty of room for error. Most of what I read described what I see as matter forming from energy particles(I'm no particle physicist so that's the best way I can describe it at this time) after the release of great energy and slowly expanding into what we know today as the universe.

I do not believe this was an isolated event. I believe that there are other universes out there.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: shrooma]
    #5610834 - 05/09/06 10:45 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shrooma said:

I also think it's a bit hypocritical to celebrate Christmas and Easter if you don't believe in religion. You can't say oh yeah Jesus and all that shits a load of crap, now lets trade some presents or lets trade some easter eggs. Why would you do that? Because everyone else is doing it? :rolleyes:




This statement made me laugh heartily. Why shouldn't we celebrate these holidays along with the christians? They only started celebrating them because all of the pagans did. If you want to argue that these holidays are truly christian in origin, then you'd better throw out your christamas tree, Santa Claus(St. Nick my ass), mistletoe, the yule log, hiding eggs, and probably a few things I can't think of right now.

These times of the year were chosen carefully in order to ease the transition from paganism into christianity. If you make it feel familiar to them they will accept it more readily. The mormons have done the same thing with Native Americans to get them to join their church. Mormons told them that they were descendants of people from the holy land that traveled to the new world. They were led to believe that it was their heritage that was being offered to them. Well turns out that none of these N.A. are middle eastern at all. Go figure.

Just like Santa Claus ain't no saint, and the easter bunny's only hidin' those eggs to keep people from findin' out that he's been screwing around with a chicken.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: ezsefix]
    #5611274 - 05/10/06 12:53 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ezsefix said:
I hardly think I was being smug Konnrade. Don't get all offended just because I was trying to make a point.

And about being labled a "mindless and untrustworthy junkie," I'm sure a good portion of the kids that I went to high school with think that about me. I also wouldn't lump myself in with all drug users. I don't do heroin, I don't do crack, coke, meth, etc. I'm a fan of psychedelics and some minor stimulants. That's VERY different from being a heroin junky. I know the stigma that comes with drug use, and I don't try to act all victimized about it.

Don't act all superior and arrogant, it's not mature behavior.




But you see... many people don't care that you don't do hardcore drugs. They'll label you nonetheless. That's much the same as the way people treat christians. They, out of prejudice, associate even kind and moderate members of the religion with fanatical idiots who embarass the religion with foolish behavior.

Much the same, many people would (if they were aware of your drug use) view you with the same stigma as a hardcore drug abuser.

The point is that it's entirely unfair to judge someone based upon them belonging to a certain group. People don't like it, but they're not better than christians are. They're no more or less foolish or ignorant. They need to stop projecting their prejudices onto people that they don't know and don't have a right to judge.

Sorry if I was being harsh. I've been known to get carried away when I'm arguing against prejudice.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineKras
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5611536 - 05/10/06 04:09 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I understand you completetly. Now I hang out on NationStates forum and there are way too many "religion-vs-atheism" threads. Those people just don't get it!


--------------------
enjoy life!

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5611558 - 05/10/06 04:26 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I dont have a real problem with Christians, other than as someone else has said with government power and enforcing it on others.

I dont care if people try to convert me either, I handle it. Sure I think its rude when someone rocks up and tells me I'm going to hell, but as above thats uncommon.

My "problem" with it, is that I dont see how intelligent people can come to that conclusion. I mean you believe things like evolution - and so you should. But how come you will follow a book that is such a hugely unreliable source.
The truth is it scares me that such a large proportion of the world can follow things like the Bible. Sure its got good parts, so does Harry Potter, but choosing to have "Faith" in a book that relies on its self for verification is a massive faux pas.

Its like if someone is spreading the fact that the sky is red. After systematicially weighing up the evidence, I'd say based on what we have observed thus far, the sky is not red.

I'd call myself a missionary of logic, because I think the world would be nicer place if we all looked a little more critically at some of the things we do as humans.

Re evaluation not transubstantiation :laugh:

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Feelers]
    #5611577 - 05/10/06 04:41 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

This post is funny as. I agree with the general thinking, organised religion is no good, but spirutuality can greatly benefit individuals.

I have read a fair bit of the bible, it is ok, it is a good action read, like a clancy novel or something.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: e32lover]
    #5611607 - 05/10/06 05:17 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

My thoughts on christianity and religion

Holes can be poked in anything that is not 100% proven but accepting what is logically most reasonable is the obvious choice, radiometric dating, other dating tools and evolution disproove the idea of Christianity(I cant say the same of other religions because I am not too informed on others) The bible claims the earths age is far less than what can be logically proven

I think we are the form of energy, we are god, I am god, You are god, the sun is god, life is god.... I worship me and you and all life, I dont think one presence or one thing is god I think we are god

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: mungojerry]
    #5611979 - 05/10/06 09:24 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mungojerry said:

I think we are the form of energy, we are god, I am god, You are god, the sun is god, life is god.... I worship me and you and all life, I dont think one presence or one thing is god I think we are god




Yeah and think theres shit load of gods in the clouds, me and zeus are chillin on nine; he's cool because he's the sky god of conquers  :laugh:

Edited by capliberty (05/10/06 10:50 AM)

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Feelers]
    #5619266 - 05/11/06 10:18 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'm with you.

I have nothing against christians as individuals.

I just cannot fathom how someone could, reasonably. accept the bible as truth.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: Hamurabi]
    #20095254 - 06/07/14 06:38 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Post deleted by nevermindthen

Reason for deletion: shroomtalk.com



--------------------
atheism is having a personal relationship with reality.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nevermindthen]
    #20095590 - 06/07/14 09:25 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Shouldnt this be in the pub?


--------------------
Far beyond Lost in Space

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: 1314697]
    #20095659 - 06/07/14 09:54 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

8 year old thread ... :lol:

:discorex:


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InvisibleNemodeus
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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nevermindthen]
    #20095932 - 06/07/14 11:21 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

nevermindthen said:
"--->as i said i am not a religious guy but nobody can prove that god doesnt exist"

....I know this was uttered a decade ago but it's still annoying.
I can't prove cap'n crunch doesn't exist in some dimension or on another fucking planet, but that's certainly no reason to give offerings to your breakfast cereal. Logic, when used properly, doesn't work that way. Religion preys on ignorance. Really the god argument just goes round in circles until someone gets bored. It's just a question of acceptance. You can accept reality as it is, or you can just make one up.




If everyone accepted everything at face value, and never dreamed of what else it might be, we would be stuck in the stone ages. Progression happens through imagination, the ability to think outside the box.


--------------------
In an entheogen influenced moment of clarity I came to understand that reality manifests as a dream from the collective subconscious minds of all conscious entities. Nothingness made something because we collectively believe it into being, and physical laws given power by the reinforcement of conscious observation. Creation, destruction, and even time itself are but an aspect of ourselves and we of them. Life and death, simply illusions we face from a limited grasp of our own existence. We are one, all is eternal.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Nemodeus]
    #20096155 - 06/07/14 12:15 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Maybe they experienced something so jaw dropping and seemingly impossible they needed to have an explanation. I have had a few trips where I felt. God was talking to me but I have come to realize it was just me talking to myself.  As long as they are happy and good to others let them do as they please

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nevermindthen]
    #20096183 - 06/07/14 12:24 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

nevermindthen said:
"--->as i said i am not a religious guy but nobody can prove that god doesnt exist"

....I know this was uttered a decade ago but it's still annoying.
I can't prove cap'n crunch doesn't exist in some dimension or on another fucking planet, but that's certainly no reason to give offerings to your breakfast cereal. Logic, when used properly, doesn't work that way. Religion preys on ignorance. Really the god argument just goes round in circles until someone gets bored. It's just a question of acceptance. You can accept reality as it is, or you can just make one up.




You joined the Shroomery just to post that? :lol:



In regards to the OP, do Christians know that LSD and shrooms are converting people? Maybe we should tell them so they start promoting drug use.

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