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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1597061 -

Damn, I didn't know they had those hardcore Bible-thumpers in New Zealand. I thought that was a mostly American thing. Guess I was wrong.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #1597089 -

Nah, NZ is a quite religious country. The bible thumpers are quite active, and we have a strongly family values Christian party in coalition with the main party who who got the majority of the votes. United Future only got about 7% of the votes.
The Churches got into a big fuss when Marilyn Manson toured here a few years ago. I can think of many bands more offensive than Manson - namely Slayer. They have toured many times without Churches trying to get them barred from entering NZ. A funny note, the venue Slayer played at was right across the road from a Church.
For the most part, it isn't too bad, but sometimes it can frustrating.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1597162 -

Your right Sheepish .. I cannot stand intolerant relegious people of any kind, you are entitled to think and beleive what and however you choose, I dont mind people informing me of relegion .. but its different when they look down upon you because they do not beleive what you do .. if any Muslim does this to anybody you only need to say one thing, "I dont serve you", because no one has the right to judge anyone on this planet like that, only the supreme judge, the All-Knowing .. only in our eyes everyone is equal, I and I .. and the Quran says so.


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May Peace and fellicity smile on those who seek it.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1597688 -

This kinda makes me miss my Sufi friend :frown:


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"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."

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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: valour]
    #5598881 -

Post deleted by DanJohnHarris

Reason for deletion: privacy


Edited by DanJohnHarris (05/06/06 08:37 PM)

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5598951 -

Ha dude i don't think they were referring to a persons IQ when they were calling christians stupid they were referring to the fact that they believe in completely ridiculous beliefs which they take for granted.


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Re: whats with people becoming christians *DELETED* [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5599210 -

Post deleted by DanJohnHarris

Reason for deletion: wanna


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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DeathCompany]
    #5599273 -

Quote:

DeathCompany said:
Ha dude i don't think they were referring to a persons IQ when they were calling christians stupid they were referring to the fact that they believe in completely ridiculous beliefs which they take for granted.



Actually, they were merely prejudiced and hateful people who like to make excuses for persecuting those they do not understand, based solely upon a feeble-minded grudge against a religion.

Don't think you can pick one single thing out of a long argument, make a sarcastic reply to it, and somehow win. The only person fooled by that would be yourself.

Whatever excuses you hide it with, you are merely a prejudiced person who is belittling people he does not know due to his own dislike for their faith.

I wouldn't make arrogant assumptions about you just because of what religious beleifs you happen to have. I know that doing so would be unfair and hateful. Perhaps you should rethink who precisely is the fool.

Thinking less of someone merely because of their religion is no different from hating a black man for being black. "those stupid christians"... "those stupid niggers"... they're both idiotic statements from a hateful mind, and neither prejudice is any less foolish.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5599827 -

I agree with the poster. I am a Christian. But have found myself often having trouble defining what it means. I like to keep an open mind but I get fed up when people buy all these things scientists tout as proof. There are so many possiblities for them to be wrong, I don't claim to have all or even alot of the answers but I do believe that our existance isn't a mathematical probability and that there is a force (God if you will) behind everything. I have found some drugs (I hate the negative conontations associated with that word) to really open up how limited our view is. Just because the mechanics of something can be explained doesn't explain the reason for it. I am very interested in things like synchrocity, time, energy, how randomness causes equality (ie shaking up a bottle with two different colours will create a perfect distribution between the two, and how everything is constantly heading towards melding but keeps being seperated by events (think mountains eroding to flat land but then an earthquake or volcano creates more mountains. Anyways I've rambled enough. I think we all suffer from a limited perspective and I enjoy doing things and thinking in ways that broaden mine.


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I've made  few spore choices in my life. :mushroom2:
Chop... Drop... and Roll

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5599876 -

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned (long post), but has anyone ever read Heaven and Hell by Aldous Huxley? One of the appendices to the essay had some pretty mind-blowing information in regards to Christianity.

Here's a little summary:

Basically, back in the day, Catholics used to be big into self punishment type things. This would include fasting (to an extreme) and beating oneself with a whip. Well it just so happens that doing either of these can cause large hallucinations which is the reason why there used to be so many reports of Catholics having visions and speaking with angels and what not.

Fasting lowers the efficiency of the brain making it much more prone to having hallucinations. More importantly though, fasting lowers the amount of a chemical called niacin in the bloodstream. This part is a bit more difficult to explain as it had a lot of coverage in Heaven and Hell: Niacin is responsible for repressing hallucinations. It helps keep the brain focused on what is pertinent to a person's life. It represses all the information in the brain that really has no purpose in everyday life.

Beating oneself causes a massive adrenaline rush (they were adrenaline junkies -_-). A certain chemical (forget the name) is left behind in the bloodstream after adrenaline is released. This chemical is known for causing hallucinations when there are large enough concentrations in the bloodstream. The adrenaline rush caused by beating oneself is more than sufficient to cause hallucinations.

So, hallucinating has long been the cause of people becoming very religious. (No wonder Jesus heard the devil talking to him when he fasted in the desert -_-).

Quote:

Konnrade said:
Thinking less of someone merely because of their religion is no different from hating a black man for being black. "those stupid christians"... "those stupid niggers"... they're both idiotic statements from a hateful mind, and neither prejudice is any less foolish.



Actually they are quite different: a person't religion is a personal choice while someone's race really is not... For me, it comes down to an intelligence issue.

The belief in religion is unintelligent and/or desperate and/or based upon personal weakness. That's not to say that people that believe in a religion are unintelligent in general, just that the belief in religion is specifically unintelligent.

The vast majority of my friends are Christian and always have been. However, there are many good reasons for hating Christians: money scams, wasting society's resources/time, the Crusades, responsibility for making the AIDS epidemic in Africa worse than it should have been, pedophelia (and lack of taking responsibility for), the Inquisition... Of course, these don't apply to all christians (except wasting society's resources/time). However, all Christians still are responsible for purveying a lie and a good amount of Christians are still responsible for supporting a regime that holds responsibility for things mentioned earlier.

Edited by Hugh (05/07/06 02:04 AM)

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Hugh]
    #5600051 -

I would of course concede that racial prejudice is against those who didn't choose to be a member of that group.

But, nonetheless, religious prejudice is a hatred of someone because they belong to a group. To hate someone because they are christian is to ignore them as a person and to instead view them as something less than human. It is to treat them as merely a conduit through which you can lash out against the religion as a whole. It is by no means any less forgivable than persecuting an ethnic group.

Of course, a person has a choice to change their own religious beleifs, but I think most people would agree that it would be a bad move to change one's religious orientation merely because a few idiots chose to persecute them for it.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: DanJohnHarris]
    #5600582 -

Quote:

DanJohnHarris said:
Why do you think their beliefs are rediculous? How do you believe the universe came into existence, the big bang? Now THAT is something to be called rediculous, even if it's true. The idea that something comes from nothing... and not just any old something. The universe!



The big bang theory doesn't claim that everything came from nothing. It claims that the universe as we know it was formed by a large explosion.

There is no Alfa or an Omega. The elements that make up our cells and the earth that we live on, were always in existence and always will be in existence.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5600654 -

show me a christian that proves himself with hardbound leather bibles, posters and shrines, and i will show you a very confused person.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: kotik]
    #5600666 -

Quote:

kotik said:
show me a christian that proves himself with hardbound leather bibles, posters and shrines, and i will show you a very confused person.


HUH????


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: kotik]
    #5600679 -

Quote:

show me a christian that proves himself with hardbound leather bibles, posters and shrines, and i will show you a very confused person.




In this world, where NOTHING is known with absolute certainty, any proclaimed "truth" is nothing more than an assumption.
As is your post.
As is mine.


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Asante]
    #5600724 -

And, I might add, as is science.

Science is measurably easier to prove than religious beleifs, but nonetheless religions are based upon perceived facts and truths.

For example, christianity centers around a certain amount of blind faith. However, that is not to say that there are not a series of logical arguments in favor of that faith. I would go into detail, but I'd have to do a bit of research in order to give accurate examples and quotations; and I somehow doubt anyone would care enough to make it worth my effort.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Asante]
    #5600814 -

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:In this world, where NOTHING is known with absolute certainty, any proclaimed "truth" is nothing more than an assumption.
As is your post.
As is mine.

Well said. One might say that we are all intrinsically agnostic.

In my trips I have come across -- seemingly spontaneous, coming from some inner wellspring -- the leitmotifs, concepts and figures from a number of religions. During a bad trip I called out to Jesus asking why he had forsaken humanity. During my last trip I gained sudden profound insight into things I couldn't come close to defining in a sober state of mind: the dharma-body, the mandala, karma, et al. But then there's the other weird shit that resonates in my trips, like UFOs and Terence McKenna's TimeWave and the Mushroom-body. I have only my intuitions and experiential knowledge to go by, and try to assume nothing. It makes every day EXTREMELY interesting.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Konnrade]
    #5600885 -

Quote:

Konnrade said:Science is measurably easier to prove than religious beleifs, but nonetheless religions are based upon perceived facts and truths.

Science cannot really be proven, since the definition of 'prove' you are using is one that is endemic to science per se. Science does not prove anything, least of all itself; it seeks to ascertain the 'probability' (a rather paradoxical term in itself) of observed trends continuing.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Lion]
    #5600890 -

Yeah, that's my understanding of the matter as well. I just failed to include such a statement in my post.

I doubt I could have said it that well, though.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Lion]
    #5600904 -

I'm a christian. I'm not stupid - hell, I'm a scholar. Why am I a christian? No, I don't believe that jesus was the son of god in any way beyond our all being children of god. I think thats what he meant when he said "If I am, I am" when he was asked.

I'm a Christian because the pure, simple beauty of what the religion is based on is something simple enough that everyone can see it, and apply it more like a philosophy. You'd be hard pressed to say that a guy, undergoing immense amounts of torture, and ultimately giving up his life for what he believed was forgivness of the mankind's sins isn't an amazing thing.

If people learned to use religion as a teacher and philosophy - not use it as a literal translation or try to infer its teachings, religion, all religion, could be something amazing.

There's nothing wrong with religion, there's something wrong with people.

Religion for me:
"Do not kill! Do not rape! Do not steal!
These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
These are not polite suggestions. These are a cause of behavior.
And those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost."

You should watch the movie Dogma, also - it might open your eyes a little about religion and what it can be. After all, you big bad athiests don't have anything to be afraid of if your opinion is solid, right?


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You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson

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