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Offlinenemesis
Stranger

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 110
Last seen: 20 years, 10 days
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: tooky]
    #1587087 - 05/29/03 12:05 AM (21 years, 6 days ago)

exactly tooky ! .. the media is the one potraying this image, but if you really have a look into the Muslim world you will see .. we have the highest charity rate, we have the lowest alcohol consumption in the world and we have the highest succesful marriage rate .. Fiend; Blackhawk Down was a movie lol .. go to Kuwiet, go to Beaurit and have a look for yourself.

And how many Christians do you hear about on the news which kill people? .. next to none, but America has more deaths by guns in the world then ANY country, and they have the MOST Christians in the world .. Who does the media show when anything happens .. blacks .. when did you last see a white dude on the news for murder?.. please I recommend watching, Bowling for Columbine .. the media is aiming for one thing, ratings .. so before you go calling them ignorant, get informed yourself ! .. "One Man's Terrorist is another Man's Freedom FIghter" .. if you only knew what the west, America, has done to Indonesia, and you lived there, you might considering joining lol.. same goes for Afganhistan .. but I will tell you that one. America offered Osama's parents an offer for drilling oil passages through their country, they denied the offer .. America decided to just do it anyway, and started night bombing Afghanistan, why didnt this show up on the news? .. it sure did on all the news in the Middle East .. then two buildings go down in America, they have to protect their country from the "threat" of terrorism .. they clean out Afghanistan .. more oil is located in Iraq to continue their passages from the sea and thru Afghanistan .. might just get rid of Saddam then because he "might" have weapons to "threaten" us with .. did any of this get through on Western news?.. No, why? .. because they didnt want it =) .. Indonesia was about resources aswell, that time the Wests excuse was "comunism" .. please do some research. And Enjoy lol


--------------------
May Peace and fellicity smile on those who seek it.

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Offlinetooky
ol' smokeyglazed eyes

Registered: 04/22/03
Posts: 48
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1588050 - 05/29/03 05:27 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

I should point out that although I understand that the problems we are seeing to day do not lie solely at the feet of the Muslim world, and the west has to change the way it operates, I do not condone any terrorist act.


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--
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

- Terry Pratchett, Jingo, 1997

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Offlinepsilo9com
Koh Koh Gadget

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 267
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: tooky]
    #1589343 - 05/29/03 03:45 PM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Some terrorist acts aren't that bad.

Like if a suicide bomber tries to kill lots of people but only blows himself up. I laugh at that when that happens.

Muslims are peaceful people though, it's just a select few whackos. Every religion has those. I hate jerry falwell about as much as I hate muslim fundamentalists.

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Offlinetoned3f
Comfortably Numb
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 124
Loc: NY, Amerika
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: psilo9com]
    #1589375 - 05/29/03 03:52 PM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Fanatics exist in every organized religion. Where are the Christians blowing themselves and others up, you ask? Check Ireland, pal. You never see any Agnostic or Atheist fanatics. Clearly those beliefs are a better choice.

Edited by toned3f (05/29/03 03:53 PM)

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Offlinekristina420
kronickrissy
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 97
Loc: Alberta
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: moidirus]
    #1590015 - 05/29/03 05:45 PM (21 years, 5 days ago)

____________________________________________________________________
"I think there is a lot of confusion between religion and spirituality. Religion is a structured belief system. One can, as I do, believe in god or a higher level of existance with out being religious. I consider myself a very spiritual person as well as very anti religious. I belive that all religions are nothing more than a politcal tool used by those that wish to rule the week minded, ego bound people that need to be told how to think."
____________________________________________________________________

definately :smile: 


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Offlinedimmo
swirlseverywhere
Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 14
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1592270 - 05/30/03 06:28 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Nemesis said:
Quote:

And how many Christians do you hear about on the news which kill people? .. next to none, but America has more deaths by guns in the world then ANY country, and they have the MOST Christians in the world




For those who think America is a Christian nation....

Quite frankly, I am sick of hearing that the United States is a Christian nation.
Founded by Christians - lets take a look at that.
Quote:

Thomas Paine was the first person to make a public call for American independence from Britain (Common Sense, January 1776).
In the The Crisis (No. II, 13 January 1777), Thomas Paine declared to General William Howe (commander of British forces) that some day the name "the UNITED STATES of AMERICA" will sound as bold & stately in the world and in history as the name of the British Empire.
Thomas Paine was the first to coin the term "United States of America."
Paine thought the Bible blasphemous: the Old Testament said God commanded slaughter or threatened curses; the New Testament said God debauched a virgin engaged to be married.
"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity." (Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, Part II, October 1795)



These are not the words of a "Christian" Founder of America.
And this..
Quote:

One of the hard facts of life is that the United States of America is not a Christian Nation. The following Treaty was made by the United States of America with the Barbary Pirates. It passed the 5th Congress without a hitch. Article 11 was made part of the record to convince the Muslims that the United States of America is not a Christian Nation, and therefore peace could be established between the two nations.
...
extract of Article 11
...
ARTICLE 11
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,4 - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.



here
And now, Thomas Jefferson:
Quote:

Thomas Jefferson: "I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."
-- Six Historic Americans by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short



More Jefferson,
Quote:


Jefferson again: "Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."
More Jefferson: "The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Jefferson's word for the Bible? "Dunghill."




And finally,
Quote:

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous




That says it all.
==================================
The time I most heard the word "Christian", was after September 11 on American news.
I was shocked, and it was immediately noticed the increase in the use of the word.
Whether it was GWB, or anyone else, almost everyone said it. Suddenly, on every tv broadcast regarding Sept 11, "this Christian nation", "we Christians"...
If they aren't Christians, they shouldn't say they are.
If they are Christians, God knows their motives, their thoughts. God doesn't like those who only turn to him in times of need, and ignore him the rest of the time.

How quickly that 'Christian' spirit has gone away now. It is like a faint memory.


GOD BLESS AMERICA!

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OfflineLostMetropolis
A Stranger AmongStrangers

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 236
Loc: In The Machine
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: dimmo]
    #1593516 - 05/30/03 02:25 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

The same can be said for all that forced patriotism crap. A mass number of people are killed and suddenly everyone is patriotic and sticks an american flag bumper sticker on their car. And those public service commeercials make me want to vomit. Where were all the flags before 9/11, hmm?

Silly americans!


--------------------
"Not All Who Wander Are Lost" - Tolkien

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: dimmo]
    #1594496 - 05/30/03 07:01 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Perhaps America wasn't founded as a Christian nation, but it is today quite possibly the most religious Christian nation in all the world. A higher percentage of people in American attend church regularly than in any European nation.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinedimmo
swirlseverywhere
Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 14
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #1594890 - 05/30/03 08:47 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

^^^

The majority of Americans are NOT Christian... the majority of Americans PROFESS to be Christian.

There is a difference.

There are true Christians in America, those who really follow Christ and live the life that Christ and God asked of us... but those are few.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: dimmo]
    #1595044 - 05/30/03 09:24 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Don't give me that crap about who's a "true" Christian and who isn't, because obviously most Muslims here would say that all those terrorists aren't "true" Muslims. Every person professing to be Christian is a true Christian in their own mind. It's not for you to judge who is and who isn't.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinenemesis
Stranger

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 110
Last seen: 20 years, 10 days
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #1595125 - 05/30/03 09:54 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

I HIGHLY agree it was not founded as a Christian country, it was founded mostly by Masonites .. now thats scary .. I think it was something like 83% of the founders were Masons.. and I highly agree with Jeffersons thoughts of Christianity .. but silversoul7 is right, it is now, "the most religious Christian nation in all the world."


--------------------
May Peace and fellicity smile on those who seek it.

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Offlinearabmobster
#1

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Palestine
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1595285 - 05/30/03 11:18 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

whats wrong with suicide bombers

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OfflineMistaSmokupalot
Necrophiliac
Male

Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 84
Loc: Between Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1595286 - 05/30/03 11:19 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

I'm not sure of you heard about my trip. Big deal, made my lfie decison to stop eating mushrooms, and to learn to respect them before I eat again. (probably will start eating in 5 years or so, i really need a break).

I had a very harsh, bad, whateveer you call it trip. I saw my freind turn into lucifer, and then turn into jesus, bad thoughts were going in and out of my mind, andI thought that I was very, very slowly dieing. But throughout the entire trip, god had been there with me. It was as though he saw every single thing I was doing (I hallucinated eyes everywhere, two eyes looking at me, different sizes, everywhere around the room I was in...it was scary). I read the bible outloud for about 3 hours before my freind decided to call someone.

When I was expereincing this madness, it seemed as though god was there, and was giving me a message to include him in my life. It seemed as though I had betrayed god because I didn;t even own a bible..l0l...

All I can say is that mushrooms have weird powers, and they do things to you, make you learn, discover new things. If your freinds choice is to follow god and read the bible etc, let him. He's better off like that..I myself have not changed since this trip, I srtill do the same things, I still dont own a bible, I;'m doing drugs still having sex etc (in muy trip I had confessed that having sex and doing drugs were sinful acts and that I should not be commiting them)..l0l.

leave yer buddies alone, they expereinced something that you have not, and just give them approval....why is it so bad to ahve people that like god around, unelss they are being openely gay about it etc.

peace.


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Edited by MistaSmokupalot (05/30/03 11:21 PM)

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Offlinevalour
Swordbearer

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1,453
Loc: USA
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: MistaSmokupalot]
    #1595623 - 05/31/03 02:19 AM (21 years, 3 days ago)

Wow, it's amazing... the intolerance here.

I'm not a Christian (although I used to be a fundie), but thanks to shrooms, I better understand where they fit in the tapestry. And while I consider myself more of a Taoist, it's a matter of seeing where people are coming from, what they want out of life and their worldview. My concept of God is simply a unifying force in the universe, may or may not be sentient, anthropomorphic and with white beard - don't know, don't care. But it's largely beyond our conception. If it comforts someone in life to think of someone who specifically thinks of them and can interact like another sentient being, hell, more power to them. And metaphorically, as far as I'm concerned, it works anyway. Islam is something I view in much the same way -- they have their truths to contribute, even if you don't believe in God, they have produced art, science, literature and so on which influence and enrich the world. (er, so did the Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, etc.)

And I can't believe someone actually spouted the "Problem of Evil" as if it was something new that would suddenly bring the religious world to its knees.

People who want to blame religion for the ills of the world are missing the point: it's that People Suck. Period. Religion is just a convenient excuse for the people doing bad things in the name of "God" and for those who want to have a handy rationale for it and think they're special for supposedly figuring it out. If you're so hot-fired up about the Big Bad Evil Christians or Muslims or whatever, why not do what you can to make the world a better place, instead of spewing more hate? It's called hypocrisy, and one doesn't have to be religious to show it.


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."

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Offlinedimmo
swirlseverywhere
Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 14
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: nemesis]
    #1595656 - 05/31/03 02:42 AM (21 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

I HIGHLY agree it was not founded as a Christian country, it was founded mostly by Masonites .. now thats scary .. I think it was something like 83% of the founders were Masons.. and I highly agree with Jeffersons thoughts of Christianity .. but silversoul7 is right, it is now, "the most religious Christian nation in all the world."




I agree with you, America is the most religious country in the world. They worship the god of money.

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OfflineSheepish
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: valour]
    #1595899 - 05/31/03 09:32 AM (21 years, 3 days ago)

I'm fine with others being Christian, but it's when they start pushing their views onto me, and treating me like shit just because I don't believe in God. THAT'S when I get really sick of it. I believe life should be - live it your own way, leave me alone. And I just wish a week would go by where I don't have idiots trying to convince me that life is somehow better with God, and telling me that I'm going to Hell, or basically being a dick to me and treating me like I'm scum. I've met some pretty two faced Christians, who claim to be (they just go to Church and follow the Lord, and not his teachings) and are basically rotton people. These people CANNOT accept that I don't want to live life their way, and I get shit for it. Every time I go to my friend's house, her step father is going to be a complete dickhead to us for no reason really, except that we're a bunch of "hellions" corrupting his step daughter. He doesn't even ATTEMPT to say Hi or basically talk - he grunts at us. Her mum is nice though, and she's one of those rare Christians that are nice enough to tolerate her daughter and her friends for what they are.
My friend's uncle, well, he's an abusive, loud mouthed, redneck, racist, narrowminded fuck who beats his kids when they don't obey him or do exactly what he wants them to (this includes how they look, what they do, what they listen to, their friends). I've been in his house while he just openly beat his kid for not getting changed out of his uniform after school. The TINIEST thing, not even worth yelling about. He snapped my other friend's CD tonight because he didn't like it.
Those tolerant Christians, I like them - they're open minded enough to not bother me about what I believe in and treat me like a human being.
Those intolerant Christians (or any religion) make me sick. I hope they die and realise what a bunch of morons they were for trying to brainwash and force me into THEIR life.

By the way, this isn't a personal attack on anyone in this thread, it's just a rant about the things I have to put up with in life due to religious fanatics.

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OfflineAnnom
※※※※※※
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1595928 - 05/31/03 09:55 AM (21 years, 3 days ago)

I love the bible  :confused: :crazy:  :

"22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed."
- Deuteronomy 28

"For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:"
- Deuteronomy 32

A man in New York gave me this "shit"......... 

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OfflineSheepish
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Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Annom]
    #1595954 - 05/31/03 10:12 AM (21 years, 3 days ago)

I read this a while ago on www.toolband.com in the News :

WWW.TOOLBAND - SUCKS.COM
In the last few days I have received dozens of emails from Tool fans telling me to check out this "hilarious anti-Tool website." Well, I recently did so, and the e-mailers were right; it is kind of amusing to read their rants about Tool?s lyrics and the contents of the website written by Kat and yours truly. But it?s not hard to figure out the agenda of those responsible for the site, as the first thing one notices is the familiar ?fish? symbol of certain Xtians (actually a stylized slanted vagina - such was the genius of Jesus and his true disciples [A COVEN of Twelve plus One = 13], knowing that the masses would condemn what they, themselves, treasured, leaving such a precious (and RARE) commodity to the cult/secret society that lies (did) at the core of true Christianity. Can anyone have any doubts that Jesus, himself, was a practicing magician schooled in the ancient (Gnostic) Egyptian mysteries (now do the Biblical Three Wise Men, or MAGI [from which we derive the word Magic] make more sense? And how about ALL THOSE MISSING YEARS SPENT IN EGYPT? Throughout history, other seekers of the ancient mysteries and "those in the know" have done the same thing as Jesus?s disciples did in their synoptic gospels - saying one thing to the masses while concealing their true message in a coded shadow language meant only for other ?players? (such as the nocturnal initiation of the resurrection of Lazarus). Even the nazis attempted to do this, condemning all occult Fraternal Orders, secret societies, etc. so that they, alone, could gain and utilize the power of such secrets. Does anyone deny that the architects of the Third Reich were not members of an occult Fraternity not unlike those that they outlawed?

He that is wounded in the stones (testicles), or hath his privy member (penis) cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. - Deuteronomy 23:1

And a nice example of a CONtradiction:
I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. - Genesis 32:30
No man hath seen God at any time. - John 1:18
And I (god) will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts; but my face shall not be seen. - Exodus 33:23

And if that is too cryptic for you, how about this passage:

"To you has been given the secret of the Kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in PARABLES; so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn again, and be forgiven." - Jesus to Mark 4:10

Personally, I didn?t think the Toolband-Sucks website was worth the bother, but I am pleased to post Victor?s response (followed by my own footnotes and a brief commentary, with quotes taken from the Bible, many of which were published in The Heretic?s Guide to the Bible - The Worst of the Bible - over 100 passages reveal the Bible to be a contradiction-ridden exercise in hate, misogyny, domination & submission, and sadistic power fantasies):

Hello! I recently visited your intriguing web-site: www.toolband-sucks.com and I must say BRAVO for a site well constructed! Needless to say, however, as the lesser left hand of the Infernal Dark One, I must insist that your coverage of Crowley be a bit more thorough. Come on - - you can at LEAST try to elaborate on the man?s bad aspects! He was bisexual, a drug abuser, a Satanist, and SCOTTISH! Surely you don?t want to leave out that. The man was not only a sodomite, he wore SKIRTS! (Kilts, skirts - skirts, kilts -- it?s all semantics as far as I can tell.)

The sensationalism and hype that your site is generating is causing TOOL?s record sales to sky-rocket. (Well, they wouldn?t be so bloody high if the parents your site is designed to target weren?t busy DESTROYING all of their kids? TOOL albums! Every time a copy of UNDERTOW goes up in flames, Junior just decides to go buy himself another copy.* What does that mean for those associated with the band? MO? MONEY! )

So, again - - well done! But do turn up the vitriol, deary.

Consider yourself...

ILLUMINATED!

Pacem Vobiscum

Victor T. Cypert 33*

baphomet257@yahoo.com

Neophyte, Initiate, High Initiate, Adept, Knight of the Royal Secret, Prince of the Inner Temple, Commander of the Secret Order, Initiate of the Seventeen, Sublime Prince of the Dark Arts, Outer Custodian of the Baphomet, Inner Custodian of the Baphomet, Beholder of the Secret Flame, Grand Elect Mysophilote, Grand Conservator of the Mystery of Sirius, Perfect Initiate in the Tradition of the O.T.O., Invisible Agent of the Orient, Archon of the Order A.?. A.?., and Supreme Commander of the ?Order of Shig.?*

A couple of footnotes and a brief commentary by BMB:

* What these parents fail to realize is that there is a powerful subliminal message encoded in every record, CD, etc. that in the event that one is destroyed, the owner should immediately go buy another copy. Think I?m kidding? How many of you have bought (or obtained through other means) a new copy after your first one was scratched, stolen, lost, removed by a guardian, etc.? I thought so.

* Order of Shig. Shig is a very mysterious substance as anyone in the P.U.P. Lodge can readily attest. It may be similar in some ways to the thrilling vapor or mysterious gas called S?ngac (a violet gas that is an emanation of the Mauve Zone). It would be unwise to speak further of this substance at this time.

"If you take the cruel passages, the verses that inculcate eternal hatred, verses that writhe and hiss like serpents, you can make a creed that would shock the heart of a hyena. It may be that no book contains better passages than the New Testament, but certainly no book contains worse. Below the blossom of love you find the thorn of hatred; on lips that kiss, you find the poison of the cobra. The Bible is not a moral guide." - Robert Infersoll

The Toolband - Sucks website contains a warning to parents about the band, Tool:
"It is highly suggested that parents inspect their children?s? CD collection for "Tool" and review the CD so that they may consult with their child about the music and remove it from their collection..."
"If your child has Internet access, be aware that he or she may be able to obtain this music from various places in the Internet that allow downloading of music."
- Parents Against Violence

I might suggest that if they?re against violence so much, that they immediately burn any copy of the Bible that they can lay their hands on. Is there any book that contains more violence than the Bible? I mean that most glorious of unfulfilled prophecies known as THE END OF THE WORLD!

But the end of all things is at hand... -I Peter 4:7

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. - I John 2:18

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -Psalms 137:9

HE THAT SPARETH HIS ROD HATETH HIS SON. - Proverbs 13:24

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. - Proverbs 23:13-14

...and my personal favorite (let this be a warning to all you young Tool fans):

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. - Deuteronomy 21:18-21

"The mind that becomes soiled in youth can never again be washed clean. I know this by my own experience, and to this day I cherish an unappeasable bitterness against the unfaithful guardians of my young life, who not only permitted but compelled me to read an unexpurgated Bible through before I was fifteen years old. None can do that and ever draw a clean, sweet breath again this side of the grave." -Mark Twain

It?s also funny to read what they say about our mentioning of Aleister Crowley and magick, but I?ll let those interested check this out for themselves. First though, take a minute and study the following:

Apo pantos kakodaimonos

Good, you are now sufficiently hypnotized and will ignore their message about Tool?s use of mind control on their loyal fans who read the website.

BMB

TOOLBAND.SUCKS - THE CONTINUING SAGA
I recently received the following e-mail from someone who investigated the links on the Xtian site:
"Well, I?ve spent some time talking to the guy who?s articles on hypnosis and magick are linked from www.toolband-sucks.com (Todd Stark) and he hasn?t even heard of Tool nor their music. He enjoys lots of Crowley?s stuff and wasn?t aware that his articles were linked from the site. He?s been getting hate and flame mail apparently from Tool fans thinking that he?s in connection with the site when he really has no idea what?s going on. He?s just a 44 year old guy who studied magick and various religions for years and his articles were asked to be used on a magick site and he agreed. The fact that they?re linked from www.toolband-sucks.com isn?t his fault at all. Hopefully you can post this on the main page or something to clear his name. He said he?d appreciate any help. Spiral Out, Rich."
Actually, we figured that "toolband-sucks" had used the article without the guy?s permission, just like they violated copyright laws by posting Tool?s lyrics and the contents from the band?s official website (having taken much of Kat?s and my own writings and highlighted the ?offending? or ?telltale? words and sentences as opposed to actually commenting on them in an intelligent manner). The whole thing is actually quite ridiculous if you really think about it: posting all of the offensive lyrics, essays, and such and making them available to those who otherwise might not ever read them. This would be like showing hours upon hours of porno videos on a website that warns against the evils of pornography (actually, when Xtian priests are caught watching kiddy porn and the likes, their most often used excuse is that they were doing so for research, so that they could sound the alarm for others who are ignorant (innocent?) of such things.
To be perfectly honest, I don?t really give a healthy shit that those responsible for the toolband-sucks site are using my thoughts and words (intellectual property) without permission. I?m confident that those who are worthy will be able to make their own decision as to whether or not they want to further explore these little mysteries we take such delight in posting on the site. As for my stance on Christianity, having studied it for decades, I have come to the same conclusion as many scholars of comparative religion (having graduated from Miskatonic University with a degree in that area, myself) that the canonized Bible is riddled with errors and inconsistencies, with the original texts having been compiled, corrupted, edited, expurged, ?improved?, falsified, etc. by less than divine, ordinary humans with political and financial agendas. This is why we often find two incompatible ?portraits? of Jesus?s life, teachings, and death in that book. I highly recommend to those interested in learning more about the message of Christianity to read "The Dead Sea Scrolls" discovered in Qumran in 1947, and the Gnostic "Nag Hammadi" library unearthed in 1945, as well as the texts known as "The Apocrypha."
Textual corruption is less likely to have occurred with these recently discovered documents (so damn embarrassing to Xtianity), in contrast to those voted (NOTE: even the votes on the ballot of the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. weren?t unanimous) into the canonized Bible (after being doctored up by those with "deftly censorious pencils... and mighty creative and imaginative pens.") Along with these important archaeological finds, I suggest the following books:
"The Essene Odyssey" and "The Passover Plot" by Hugh Schonfield. "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels. "Jesus the Magician" and "The Secret Gospel" by Morton Smith, and "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" by John M. Allegro. Also, "The Messianic Legacy" by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh & Henry Lincoln.
For those wanting more information about "The Heretic?s Guide to the Bible" (Chaz Bufe, Editor), the pamphlet (for that is really what it is) was published by the Sharp Press in 1987 and then republished in 1992. "All passages cited in the pamphlet are taken from the King James version of the Bible, with the sole exception of Romans 3:7-8 which was taken from the Revised Standard Edition. The wording of this passage in the King James version is so muddled as to be nearly incomprehensible."
In the past week or so I have received thousands of e-mails written by fans of the band who wanted to express their feelings about the toolband-sucks site. Most of these were extremely well written (and often quite heart felt) and contained relevant points with regards to the hypocrisy of the "toolband-sucks" site that even I had not considered. I want to thank all those who sent me their comments and opinions, including those who forwarded me emails that they launched like Titan missiles to the Xtian site. It is evident by recent changes in wording (and attitude?) on that site that these hit their intended target.
BMB

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Offlinevalour
Swordbearer

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1,453
Loc: USA
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: Sheepish]
    #1595989 - 05/31/03 10:32 AM (21 years, 3 days ago)

Of course, and I understand the utility of a rant 8-)
But bad people can be found in any grouping, really - Christianity simply is a Very Strong social force in Western society, and one that mainline and fundamentalist viewpoints reinforce as one of a power hierarchy and aggressive evangelism. I'm standing by my People Suck dogma. Asshole is asshole, no matter what special hat they think they have. An asshole simply thinks he has God's backing if he's a Christian asshole.
Counterexamples would be that many - most, I'd say - are simply trying to live their lives peaceably, with varying degrees of success (Christianity has it's own perspective on this, that all fuck up and fall short of perfection. Ok, I don't think that's how it says it, but you get what I mean). And I've met some who live wonderfully as Christians, and it never involves yelling, telling people they're going to Hell or Jerry Falwell.

Heh, good thing it was you who responded with this - I like you and have seen much cool/peaceful perspective in your posts, so I was able to read it with that in mind ;-)
However, I'm often confused when people talk about it being shoved down their throats as adults...not at all calling you a liar, but I'm never confronted by evangelical Christians at work, in the streets, anywhere (except when I go someplace where I'd specifically expect them, such as church or an abortion clinic) - where do you encounter them?
I learned to spot them pretty well from my own fundamentalist days, but they always just kinda circle and leave like a curious shark.
Heh.


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."

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OfflineSheepish
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: whats with people becoming christians [Re: valour]
    #1597041 - 05/31/03 09:14 PM (21 years, 3 days ago)

It's not so much the religion being shoved down my throat, but having people trying to encourage me to go to Church with them, or they go on about how sad they are for you that you don't believe and that they'll pray for you, or watching them try to force it onto your friends. I had a girl I knew from school preach to me for over an hour about how I needed God to be happy and to go to Church with her. She couldn't understand that I was perfectly happy as I was.
The other instance is my chick friend's family. In this case they're not forcing their religion, BUT they're basically shunning me and refusing to treat me like a human being (and I'm not even an asshole to them, I have been pleasant to them ever since I had to confront them). My friend is 21, but she still has her asshole of a step dad trying to control her life. She pays board, but she isn't allowed to have any posters of "the devils music" on the walls. And there was the whole incident of the Satanic Bible (she asked if I could lend it to her, so I did) and then her step dad went snooping through her room, found the book, and destroyed it. I went around to confront him and get the money I paid for the book back from him. He told me to never bring anything like that into his house again (I didn't even step into his house with the book, she asked, I gave to her), tried to give me a huge lecture about the Lord, and refered to his step daughter as a GUEST in HIS house. I was sickened. I told him to go fuck himself and left.
Her auntie also has some kind of problem with me, and acts weird when I am around, but her mum and her cousin (both Christians) always say Hi, chat to me, etc.
I do agree with the notion - people are assholes. That's why I put intolerant Christians (or ANY religion for that matter) in my last post.
Luckily, I don't encouter people trying to preach to me on the streets, and if they did, I'd ignore them fairly easily. It's usually just in the circle of friends (usually the parents/relatives of someone's family, especially if they're DEVOUT Christians). They look down upon you, and treat you like scum. I have that under control though - my chick friend basically lives at her b/f's house now, so when I go around to see her, I don't have to put up with her step dad :grin: 

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