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Offlinem_jacobs
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: freeskierpj]
    #14186557 - 03/26/11 12:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Very interesting.. 

This is my 1st grow but I might just try an experiment.
I have 5 quarts of Cambo in WBS colonizing right now.  Planning on spawning to coir/verm. I'll be using 27quart monotubs.  Guess maybe i'll be a guinea pig and test this out.

tub A will be bagged but not completely sealed.
tub B will be unbagged and fanned/misted once a day.

@Facey
in your photo some of the holes have poly, and some are completely open.  I'm assuming that was to prevent too much moisture loss? 

2nd question. 
I want to do the classic monotub with 6-8 holes.  since i'm using 27quart tubs should I use smaller holes or the standard 2in holes?


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Offlinefreeskierpj
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: biologys]
    #14186564 - 03/26/11 12:21 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
Quote:

anonjon said:
It's actually the best of the alternatives I discovered. Still nothing compared to here, but it's decent. Mycotopia is a joke.





i agree..if i hadn't found shroomery, i'd be so bored...it seems like they get maybe 2-3 post's a day on their site..


here when I have nothing to do (which is most of the time), all i have to do is press refresh and have 5-10 new threads to reply to :lmafo:




Soooo true bio soooo true :laugh:


--------------------

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OfflineProfessorPinHead
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: freeskierpj]
    #14186688 - 03/26/11 12:53 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

anonjon said:


hes back!

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Invisibleheeroyuy00
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: biologys]
    #14187899 - 03/26/11 05:17 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
Quote:

faceyneck said:
It's not absurd. It works. :shrug:





you'll soon learn, what i learned many many months ago




if its not Doc_T's way, its wrong, stupid, dumb, 'going to fail' or 'absurd'

:lmafo:




^ alot of people present themselves around here this way


you just gotta realize myc is way stronger than everyone thinks

so yeah some dummy fans his shit during colonization ... i dont see how your array of pictures backs that up lol

mushrooms grow different everytime


--------------------
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OfflineSynocybin
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: heeroyuy00]
    #14188249 - 03/26/11 06:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

heeroyuy00 said:

you just gotta realize myc is way stronger than everyone thinks...

...mushrooms grow different everytime




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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: heeroyuy00]
    #14189389 - 03/26/11 10:21 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

heeroyuy00 said:
mushrooms grow different everytime




Not if you do it right.


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Offlinefreeskierpj
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: Doc_T]
    #14189401 - 03/26/11 10:23 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

heeroyuy00 said:
mushrooms grow different everytime




Not if you do it right.



:whathesaid: If you are working from an isolate or a clone and have multiple trays/tubs of them then you have a much better chance of getting results that are the same from tub to tub rather than them growing differently every time...


--------------------

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: anonjon]
    #14190936 - 03/27/11 07:34 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
Quote:

hamloaf said:
:eek:

holy shit, it's anonjon.  Enjoy your perma-bann0r?

Hmmmm.  I didn't catch the part of that post where facey claims that FANNING during COLONIZATION is RR's idea.  I wonder what RR would have to say about that.




Such a drama queen. U knew I was back cuz the first thing I did was pm u dork. No I didn't enjoy my ban, mycotopia and shroomatopia are run by noobs. I finally had to resort to apologizing.

I think he would say "I said no such thing." That's why I was askin for the link.



Hey, in those pm's you said you were going to be less snarky.  lol  :archiebunker:





Sorry man, I didn't mean to offend you.  I was merely engaging in gentle teasing over an internet chat forum because I thought we were bro's and that you could take it.  You know I love you man.  Thanks for thinking of me when you first got back.  :hug:




Come on anonjon, you'v been on here long enough to know better than to ask for a link.  Why don't you just find the link yourself?


Personally, I don't go feeling all big because the shroomery is the most accurate, busy, and contemporary source of mushroom cultivation information available to date.  IMHO, the shroomery would hardly be worth coming to at all either if it wasn't for RR posting about.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: anonjon] * 1
    #14190953 - 03/27/11 07:48 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:

I think he would say "I said no such thing." That's why I was askin for the link.




Correct.

You want to keep CO2 levels high during colonization for a few reasons. One reason is that colonization is slowed down somewhat in a high CO2 environment and this helps prevent the mycelium from consuming the substrate rather than colonizing it. You'll have much more of your substrate available for the fruiting stage if you keep a high CO2 level during colonization.

In addition, the CO2 drop is a major pinning trigger, thus if it's applied at the time of the other triggers such as bright light and evaporation of moisture from the substrate, you'll get a more even pinset.

It is true that providing FAE during colonization rather than simple gas exchange will speed up colonization, but it's not beneficial.
RR


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: hamloaf]
    #14191184 - 03/27/11 09:09 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Sorry man, I didn't mean to offend you.  I was merely engaging in gentle teasing over an internet chat forum because I thought we were bro's and that you could take it. 





I can take a lot worse than that :badslave:.


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Offlinem_jacobs
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14191281 - 03/27/11 09:39 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Correct.

You want to keep CO2 levels high during colonization for a few reasons. One reason is that colonization is slowed down somewhat in a high CO2 environment and this helps prevent the mycelium from consuming the substrate rather than colonizing it. You'll have much more of your substrate available for the fruiting stage if you keep a high CO2 level during colonization.

In addition, the CO2 drop is a major pinning trigger, thus if it's applied at the time of the other triggers such as bright light and evaporation of moisture from the substrate, you'll get a more even pinset.

It is true that providing FAE during colonization rather than simple gas exchange will speed up colonization, but it's not beneficial.
RR




That is a logical explanation I can understand.  Thanks RR! :thumbup:


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Edited by m_jacobs (03/27/11 09:40 AM)

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Invisibleheeroyuy00
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: freeskierpj]
    #14191477 - 03/27/11 10:41 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

freeskierpj said:
Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

heeroyuy00 said:
mushrooms grow different everytime




Not if you do it right.



:whathesaid: If you are working from an isolate or a clone and have multiple trays/tubs of them then you have a much better chance of getting results that are the same from tub to tub rather than them growing differently every time...




i highly doubt he was working from an isolate whoever said it

he probably would have said so

if he was than cheers mate my bad!


--------------------
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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Ready to fruit? [Re: Morelman]
    #14196621 - 03/28/11 07:56 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Morelman said:
Quote:

faceyneck said:







:super:




Classic examples of uneven pinsets caused by fanning/AE during colonization.




Classic example of someone who hasn't perfected cultivating in monotubs.

This was grown the same way:



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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: anonjon]
    #14196625 - 03/28/11 07:59 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
Not only does he suggest it, he claims it's RR's idea. I'd like to see the link for that. I don't believe it.




There must be a misunderstanding here.

I did say RR said colonization would be faster from providing copious FAE during colonization, which is accurate.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: faceyneck]
    #14196663 - 03/28/11 08:14 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Read what RR wrote a few posts up^^^.


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: Doc_T]
    #14196690 - 03/28/11 08:25 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Read what RR wrote a few posts up^^^.




Yeah, I have, in like 3 different threads now. :rolleyes:

...speaking of misunderstandings:

I didn't say RR advocates fanning of a colonized substrate. I simply stated he's mentioned that providing copious fae will result in faster colonization of a substrate:

Quote:

rogerrabbit said:
It is true that providing FAE during colonization rather than simple gas exchange will speed up colonization, but it's not beneficial.




Sheesh people. :facepalm3:


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: faceyneck]
    #14196731 - 03/28/11 08:39 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Well to get away from the who said what and more to the matter at hand, it is a paradigm shift to say that the fresh air actually speeds colonization.

I mean how many thousands upon thousands of times must it have been said that allowing fresh  air into the tub would stall it.

I used to argue about that and call it a myth all the time. Because I was such a habitual photographer that I was opening em up all the time and noticing it didn't seem to have much affect.

But to say that it speeds colonization is even a step further. It's going to take some experimenting to see to what extent this is true. On my 6 qt sterilites for example, I fill the tub to the line, which is just an inch and half or so from the very top. Then I put the lid on it for colonization. The lids are kinda loose and allow for ge, even when  the tubs are stacked.

Not only do they colonize at what I would consider an optimal rate, but the micro-environment at the surface really encourages good pinning. At 1:4 ratio I have pins at day 8.

Seeing that they need so little air exchange makes me doubt that more air is going to do much.

And I'm no contamn freak by any means, but I'm not about to go opening the tubs during the colonization phase if I don't have to.

I still can't really believe people are saying this. It's such a paradigm shift. Anybody run any decent side by sides?


--------------------
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Edited by anonjon (03/28/11 08:40 AM)

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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: anonjon]
    #14196755 - 03/28/11 08:49 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

And one more thought for the day. I was fascinated by RR's statement that the high C02 levels help the myc colonize the substrate thoroughly, rather than just consuming it all.

I am fascinated by this concept of how the c02 could affect the structure of the myc like that. Stamets lists the optimal c02 levels, but I've never really heard of what the effects are of being outside those parameters.

I've always thought that one of the problems with penis envy is that it likes to eat up all the coir and get dense before the first flush and doesn't transpire very well like another strain might on the same substrate, i.e. it's consuming all the substrate instead of colonizing it.


--------------------
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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: anonjon]
    #14196771 - 03/28/11 08:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Well to get away from the who said what and more to the matter at hand, it is a paradigm shift to say that the fresh air actually speeds colonization.





I suppose so.

Quote:

I mean how many thousands upon thousands of times must it have been said that allowing fresh  air into the tub would stall it.





I wouldn't know, I haven't ever read that. In fact, all I've read is the opposite - that RESTRICTING fresh O2 would result in stalling.

Quote:

But to say that it speeds colonization is even a step further. It's going to take some experimenting to see to what extent this is true.




It's been done. Have you not seen the monotub bag thread? Everyone who did experiments in that thread reported back faster colonization.

Quote:

Seeing that they need so little air exchange makes me doubt that more air is going to do much.




That's a pretty small substrate, so I wouldn't expect much benefit to come from additional air exchange either. However, I and ProfessorPinHead achieve full colonization (...or what I consider full colonization) in 7-9 days. Here's a substrate at day 5:



With that much substrate, additional air exchange/ gas exchange (...doesn't matter with a pasteurized substrate) is beneficial.

Quote:

And I'm no contamn freak by any means, but I'm not about to go opening the tubs during the colonization phase if I don't have to.

I still can't really believe people are saying this. It's such a paradigm shift. Anybody run any decent side by sides?




Let me try to be as clear as possible:

Fanning during colonization will speed up the colonization of a substrate if its growth is being slowed by the concentration of CO2. Otherwise, it will have no effect, and is not encouraged by me or anyone else that I know of currently as something that should be done as a general substrate colonization regimen. On the other hand, making up a monotub with polyfil-stuffed holes and placing in an area with ambient light does provide better results for me and anyone else who's tried it regarding colonization speed, over taping up the polyfil holes, or placing in a bag.

Hope that helps clear things up. :grin:


--------------------
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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Mini Mono Tub update w/ pics [Re: anonjon]
    #14196796 - 03/28/11 08:59 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I would REALLY enjoy a link to anything substantial - even just some ANECDOTE, if done by someone competent - to show that mycelium would actually intentionally colonize a substrate inefficiently given generous amounts of O2. As I wrote earlier today, that seems logically absurd:

Quote:

faceyneck said, in the monotub bag thread that most Shroomerites lament:
Yeah, thanks for bringing that up, although I thought it was mentioned by RR himself earlier in the thread. I don't remember, and I'm not sifting through all that emotional garbage again. :nonono:

Ah, I see this was brought up by hamloaf a couple posts ago.

This doesn't seem logical to me though. I can present a very good argument for why it is unlikely to burn up the substrate excessively without even conducting an experiment.

Okay, so, we slow down the growth of the mycelium by keeping CO2 levels high. However, as the mycelium grows slower, it now takes longer to colonize the bin.

Let's say to colonize a typical bin, 500,000 miles of dikaryons must be grown. Now, why does it make a difference if that distance is grown in 7 days or 14? Here is the crux of the issue, and here's what I hypothesize:

If this were a combustion engine, I suppose there would be a "sweet spot" where fuel consumption was at its most efficient, and we could also turn the engine off when it's not being driven. However, this is a living organism, which means that it takes energy for the organism to be inert simply to be alive. It would be like driving 500,000 miles by car, and instead of driving from point A to point B in 7 days, you drive there in 14, letting the car idle 1/2 the time. Assuming the mycelium will grow slower but more distance using less energy also assumes the mycelium will intentionally be inefficient given the opportunity.

I say this because the only other explanation would be the mycelium intentionally being inefficient at growth when given an unlimited supply of fuel.

Why the hell would the organism do that? Wouldn't it make much more sense to use the fuel to colonize the substrate in a shorter amount of time than waste energy?

I think so.

The longer it's kept alive for a given task, the more energy is being burned as waste to do the same job. This seems like evidence to the contrary of what RR has said.

If someone has a link to some legitimate scientific data on this, I'd be very interested in reading it. At the moment, it seems more likely that MORE energy is burned in colonizing a substrate in 14 days as opposed to 7.




From what is written there, I think a legitimate scientific set of data is in order. It's probably out there somewhere already, so, if anyone knows where the hell it is, I'd love to get my eyes on it. :lol:


--------------------
Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
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New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here. :grin:


We give cultivation advice here. :super:


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