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OfflineFraggin
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Court date for speeding ticket coming up.
    #10709621 - 07/20/09 01:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I was pulled over a while back on my monthly trek to visit my parents.

I was approaching the same speed trap I've driven through countless times with no issues.

I reduced the cruise control from 75 down to 60mph. As I'm approaching a gas station on my right, this car pulls into the right hand lane, and a motor cycle follows. I get into the left lane and pass them up, and the car behind me follows suit. As we come over the top of a hill, I notice the police crusier where it normally waits.

The car behind me is fastly closing the distance between us and he gets into the right lane. He was clearly going faster than I was. There were a group of about 8 cars all traveling at the relative speed. The cop turns on his lights and begins chase. I pull into the right lane to let him by, but he ends up behind me.

He told me I was doing 75 in a 60. I told him I had my cruise control on 60. He said "I'm just telling you what the radar said"

So, He runs my shit, and comes back with a ticket. I'm like, "I swear to you, I was going 60. I had my cruise control set. Could you have mistaken me for another car?"

He essentially tells me that he's just doing his job, and to sign the ticket and if I want to contest it in court I can.

And I reply. "Is there any possible way that you could have read another vehicle's speed?"

His answer once again "I'm just telling you what I saw on my radar. That's all I can say"

He also asked me if I was by myself  and I replied "No, my son is in teh back seat".

On the ticket, it reads, passengers - 0.

I plead not guilty out of general principle and I have to go do a trial by judge next month.

Will the fact that this officer had his head so far up his ass, he didn't notice a 5 year old in the back seat, coupled with my plead that I was doing 60 because I was using my cruise control help me get this crap dismissed?

He created a more dangerous situation for me, by pulling me and my child over on the side of a busy interstate than I could have if I were driving over the speed limit.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #10709702 - 07/20/09 02:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I doubt the things you mention are relevant except for your denial and related observations.


If you had told us your state and country we could perhaps have found find information on what the law is in your area regarding evidence their likely to submit.



You need to insist on the trial and question the officer.  I'll post more later if I recall, but basically his ticket sounds like bullshit, and it will be up to you to get him to admit it in court, or establish such facts.


Look up errors in radars.  As I recall, it is possible he corrrectly targeted you and got an incorrect speed due to the surrounding cars.


A bit point to raise will be the percision and accuracy (they are different things) of both the radar beam and the speed determination.


The cop will likely be stupid unless he's a statey (in my experience) and does this very regularly with training.


Get him to admit he has no idea what the accuracy and percision of the targ5ting system is or get him to admit there's no way for him to know what car he targeted.


Have you waited for a while since your initial appearance?  If so, it may be too late for discover, which could have seriously helped you.  If not, it would likely be a huge advantage if you request discovery.  Look at the rules of court (likely statewide and possibly for the particular court your appearing in) and determine if you have time to get discovery.

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: johnm214]
    #10709726 - 07/20/09 02:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The ticket was in San Jacinto County, TX, by a Sherriff's Dept.

Ticket was on 5-16 court is set for 8-12

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Offlinesupra
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: johnm214]
    #10729472 - 07/23/09 08:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
A bit point to raise will be the percision and accuracy (they are different things) of both the radar beam and the speed determination.


The cop will likely be stupid unless he's a statey (in my experience) and does this very regularly with training.





I recently fought a ticket (well, 2 built up, he added one when i gave him lip) and won the case.  I got a lawyer, he said using the above is NOT a good way to go about it really.

Here is what my lawyer did.  First, had me plea not guilty and request a trial by judge.  After that, he works on setting the court date for it as late as possible.  After this, the plan was that if the officer showed, to ask him some specific details about the ticketing and surrounding situations, he said chances are the cop won't remember, since he does this many times a day, and if i do remember, than it puts doubt out there...he said the goal was to get the officer to say 'i don't know' or 'i don't remember clearly'...etc.

I got lucky and my case was over here, as the officer didnt' show up.  Actually, there were 12 other people in there, 10 of us got our cases dropped since no officer showed, and the other 2 the officer did show, one got the ticket to stick, the other got moved to jury trial...but i digress.

The plan was after this, if things didnt' go quite as planned, to request a jury trial, i guess the lawyer was going to work some of his magic on this, then use the same plan for court day, schedule court as late as possible, when in court, ask about very specific details of case if officer shows up and try to get him to say the magic words....again, never got this far for me, since officer didnt' show to first court.

So the tickets would have ended up costing me 338 dollars, for speeding and following too closely, the lawyer costs me 228, so it was a great deal int he long run, though i should not have had to pay a dime, as I was in the same situation as you.  I was driving down the freeway at a 65mph pace behind an unmarked police car, i knew it was a cop long before i was where i was, he was one lane to the right of me, i was far left lane.  Anywys, this blue subaru comes speeding up beside me, right behind the cop, cuts in between us, in front of me, PASSING me and officer.  Officer slows down, gets behind me, and pulls me over, said i was doing 78 in a 65, i said bullshit, it was that subaru that went right past us, you pulled over the wrong person.  He then asked for my ID and went back to his car, when he got back, the bastard had 2 citations, one for speeding, and one for 'following too closely', which was the guy that cut me off....My guess is the cop looked up in his rear view mirror and got a different idea about what was going on, but he wasnt' going to hear it from me.

Hope any of this helped.

peace

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: supra]
    #10731762 - 07/24/09 08:00 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks Bro. It helps very much. I may go without a lawyer just to try my luck at it. I know I should probably retain one, however, I feel like I have a pretty good case.

He was sitting on the side of the road orientated the same way traffic was flowing. So, everything he saw, he saw in his rear view mirror.

And when I asked him if he was certain that I was the guy driving 75, he said "Look buddy, I'm just tellin what my radar said". So, hopefully if I ask for the dashboard tapes, they will see what a moron this cop is. Then when I asked if the judge would ask him his opinon, he was like "Da judge dont aks me nuthin. I don't even talk to the judge."

The kicker is that he didn't even notice I had a passenger. So, I want to also use the fact that he wasn't aware of anything that was going on because A. He pulled over and ticketed the wrong Guy, and B. He didnt even notice that I had a passenger in the back seat.

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OfflineNickSoapdish
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #10767289 - 07/30/09 09:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Every ticket I've ever gotten (3 total) I have fought and won using the ticket clinic. I'm pretty sure they offer services nationwide.

They go to court for you for around $70, depending on your location, and you don't really have to do much other than fill out the online form. No points on your license, no traffic school, and obviously you don't have to pay the ticket.

One time I got charged a court fee of $150 on top of the $70 charge for their service, but it was still worth it considering what the cost of the ticket and traffic school would have been.


--------------------

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: NickSoapdish]
    #10767326 - 07/30/09 09:45 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I already got a letter in the mail saying that Instead of paying the full fine, I can pay 50% and get 30 days traffic probation, and it not go on my record. And my court date is on the 12th.
Is this standard practice once someone pleads not guilty?

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #10767641 - 07/30/09 10:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

> Is this standard practice once someone pleads not guilty?

No, but every area is different.  Usually they don't want to waste time and money on these stupid minor fine cases.  They're busy as hell and they know you probably don't have anything better to do than take your chances.

Based on your case... I would take it to court and take your chances.  Use the passenger fact. Ask him to describe your car, any passengers, details about the location, and details about other traffic in the vicinity.  He'll come back with some vague statements, look at the ticket and say there were no passengers, etc..  Then you bring out your proof that some of his statements are wrong.

You must remember to be polite and sympathetic to the officer.  Point out the tough situation to get a good reading and what a hard job the cop has.  It's only natural to make a mistake or two sometimes, right?  If you badger the officer or act like a dick you WILL get stomped.

I would also point out how hard it is to get a good reading on the right car.  I'd make or find a video that shows a busy interstate and a cop trying to radar people.  When you see this big clunky radar gun pointed at a road it's clear that they can't be sure which car they're getting a reading on. Show that it's hard to point them accurately.  Many guns have a distance reading that's supposed to help them get the right car.  You might ask the cop to try and say how far away each car is, which will show how easy it is to mistake one car for another.

My guess, from what the cop said, is that he doesn't give a shit.  He's just doing his job and that's what he'll say in court.  He'll admit that he can't be certain that the reading was accurate or that he didn't get another car instead.  He'll say he just points the gun and does his best.  Set that up for him to admit by laying out the circumstances and explaining that it's easy to do and there's no way to really be sure.

You definitely need to file a FOIA request and get that cop car video.  Most have them nowadays and there's nothing like a grainy video showing a bunch of cars whizzing by to point out how hard it is to get a good reading.  You can also subpoena the radar gun just to point out how hard it is to aim accurately and be sure of your target.

Anyways, think of this as an opportunity to get some court time without any real risk.  It will help you in the future.


-FF

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: fastfred]
    #10767971 - 07/30/09 11:51 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the advice.

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #10845144 - 08/12/09 11:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

So I had a trial by judge setup, and when I get there, they had done nothing more than push the appear by date back.

I stepped up to the JP, they looked over my papers, looked at me and said:
"What we can offer you is a $165 fine, 30 days probation, and if you do not get any infractions in that period, this ticket will not go on your record."

I replied

"I came here today to plead my innocence in this matter"

I was then told that they couldn't try my case, and that I would have to have a case reset.

So, I now have a Bench Trail set for October.

This was a tiny little shit hole town on the outskirts of a national forest, with no industry at all. There was one gas station, a post office and a mexican restaraunt and nothing more. The building I was in would not even hold 30 people and it smelled of molded cieling tiles and stale urine. So, they obviously have time to argue with City Folk whom they entrap on their way back to civilization.

I can afford to pay the $165, but this is more of a learning experience and a matter of principle for me, so I will be returning to this dark age town of yesteryear and plead my innocence once again.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #10847156 - 08/12/09 04:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Good decision.

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Offlinesupra
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #10848186 - 08/12/09 06:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Good decision.




agreed.

good luck, sounds like your on the way to NOT paying and NOT having it on your record...best of both worlds.

peace

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: supra]
    #12000843 - 02/10/10 09:00 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Wow.. 5 months later and I now have to go to my bench trial...

The court has postponed me three times. I suppose this is their tactic to wear me down. They think I will eventually get tired of losing work over scheduled court appointments that get rescheduled and just pay the fine. (I actually havent missed any work)

I'm just going to go and see what happens.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #12050292 - 02/17/10 08:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
Wow.. 5 months later and I now have to go to my bench trial...

The court has postponed me three times. I suppose this is their tactic to wear me down. They think I will eventually get tired of losing work over scheduled court appointments that get rescheduled and just pay the fine. (I actually havent missed any work)

I'm just going to go and see what happens.




Never give up. You should get a lawyer though. He or she will be taken more seriously than you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12050340 - 02/17/10 08:40 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I talked to the prosecuting attorney before the case. Managed to get it dropped to $62.50 and 30 days of good driving, 0 points on my license. He offered me reduction from $250 to $125 30 days and 0 points. I rapped with him for a minute about what happened, told him about taking my boy to see his grandparents, talked about my chances of winning in court. LoL. Considering court costs were $98 and I admitted that I didn't want to waste the officers time, he hooked me up with %75 off. I'm glad I went through it all. It's been a learning experience for me. Next time I get a speeding ticket, I'm just going to call a lawyer the next day.

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Offlinesupra
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #12050485 - 02/17/10 09:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

you don't pay the court fees if you win or its dismissed, or that would be just another way for them to easily collect more money...at least i didn't have to when i won mine...Speeding tickets here are around $90, what sense would it make to fight it or contest it if it costs you $98...

Though, if you are still found guilty, then you do have to pay..

peace

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #12050796 - 02/17/10 10:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
I talked to the prosecuting attorney before the case. Managed to get it dropped to $62.50 and 30 days of good driving, 0 points on my license. He offered me reduction from $250 to $125 30 days and 0 points. I rapped with him for a minute about what happened, told him about taking my boy to see his grandparents, talked about my chances of winning in court. LoL. Considering court costs were $98 and I admitted that I didn't want to waste the officers time, he hooked me up with %75 off. I'm glad I went through it all. It's been a learning experience for me. Next time I get a speeding ticket, I'm just going to call a lawyer the next day.




You should not have taken the deal. Hopefully your insurance company will be as understanding as you are and not raise your rates.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12053430 - 02/18/10 11:39 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

insurance company will have no idea

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: Fraggin]
    #12063976 - 02/20/10 05:07 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
insurance company will have no idea




Bullshit. They have access to that information. While not every company raises your insurance for the first ticket, some do. Most check your record come renewal time. As far as I know all check when you start a new policy.

A few seconds with Google would have prevented a foolish answer from you.

Progressive

Here's another:
Until they do get a speeding ticket, most drivers give little thought as to how this may affect their car insurance rate quote. They may be in for an unpleasant surprise! They may have to pay an expensive increase in their auto insurance rates, in addition to the ticketed fine. In cases of extreme speeding, a driver’s cost of car insurance could actually double, even on a first offense.

Perhaps in the future you should look before you answer.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisiblePsilobuds



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Re: Court date for speeding ticket coming up. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12063989 - 02/20/10 05:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:Perhaps in the future you should look before you answer.




well he did say "30 days probation, and if you do not get any infractions in that period, this ticket will not go on your record.".

big ups for taking it as far as you did

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