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Invisible04281969
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit (moved) [Re: 789andIeatyou]
    #10703345 - 07/19/09 10:51 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make it think.

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InvisibleShad0w
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit (moved) [Re: Etherealfeeling]
    #10703363 - 07/19/09 10:57 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Etherealfeeling said:
personally I learn more when all of my defenses are completely knocked down ... when the dose is lower I have a good time but I still have my ego to protect me from things I don't want to come to terms with. When I take higher doses these things come to surface whether or not I want them to, forcing confrontation and stimulating growth. Everyone is different though. If less works better for you that's awesome.




I think this is true... Blasting past everything about yourself you thought you would never have to face down, straight to the core of the matter. 

But with the lower doses.... If you are already of a somewhat introspective mind...... Instead of just getting your head blown open over WHAT it is defending itself from............. You get to see HOW it defends itself, Gives you a open-eye to keep on it in sober life.

I think there are times to force a confrontation that is hard to accept/understand , To bring your self to a higher understanding and more open acceptance to all the things that hold you back in your own life.

And there are times to just enjoy yourself for the way you ARE, and not what you could be, or will be, or should be. And thats where I think the low doses are very nice... For the way you ARE. :mushroom2:

Yerp, none of us are walking around "ego-less" 24/7.... most of us dont like to admit that we even HAVE egos..... and that our egos are really just afraid.... and they simply act big and bad to keep everyone/thing that might hurt 'me' away. :sad:

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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Almond Flour]
    #10703398 - 07/19/09 11:05 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tea said:
You create your reality. You create your Gods/Goddesses you may worship :smirk: Psychedelics simply take your inner emotions, thoughts, and experiences and turn them into an outer expression of unprocessed information.





Your post has some points, however - how is the above different from any kind of spirituality?

I think a large part of why religion and spirituality came to surface was from people searching inside themselves to find explanation to the world around them.

What could not be explained by the logic/reason/information available to them at the time starts to manifest itself in ideas of gods/entities outside of them to help bring order to an otherwise chaotic world.

I do think that our notions of god are largely created within ourselves - but I don't think that makes the concept of god any less valid or important.

If it's either your religion, your church, studying a bible, meditation, psychedelics or even your atheism that leads you to finding a sense of comfort, peace and place in the world that provides you with strength when you need it - then what's it matter what methods you use to get there as long as its beneficial to you?

Its when you start to twist those things into an attempt to gain power, force views onto others or create a system of exclusion, power and division is when the problems start to rise.

I'm not a deeply religious person. I have my own set of beliefs and sense of my place in the world. Some of my ideas have come from psychedelics, some of them have come from simply thinking and pondering, some of them have come from my knowledge of other religions.

I'm not anti-religious, although I tend to be opposed to the institution of religion (if that makes any sense).

I do think though, that many users of psychedelics so need to learn to filter, to separate the signal from noise. When thrust into the depths of an intense psychedelic expedience, there is so much stimulation and sensory over-load that the amount of "noise" coming at them is vast - where very idea seems like the most amazing revelation ever.

At the end of the trip though, more users would be far better off if they are able to step back, write things down and get some sense of objectivity on things.

If every idea is the most amazing and truthful idea ever, then every idea is meaningless. It's when you can really seperate what actually matters, most 90% falls to the way-side with the remaining ones actually holding some sense of true value.

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Invisiblestereolab
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit (moved) [Re: 789andIeatyou]
    #10703616 - 07/19/09 11:46 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

789andIeatyou said:
Psychedelics don't make you see, it only helps to open the eyelid?  It wont give much of a spiritual experience to the blind?



Good analogy.

The third eye does not have to be open with psychedelics, but that is the only way some people can open it, at first at least.  The amazing thing about the 3rd eye is that it's more of a prism than an eye: it feeds on pure Clear Light and reflects it in whatever beautiful colors the individual chooses it to.


--------------------
Space is
the Place
:aum:

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InvisibleMentalMeltdown
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: iluvfungi]
    #10703775 - 07/19/09 12:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iluvfungi said:
Psychedelic drugs are nothing. The entire experience is created by what you believe the drug will do based on others interpretations of that reality.






I cant agree with you on that one. My expierience has never been affected or influenced by what others say theyve expierience but almost always by the mindstate im in before i eat em. My perspective on life is always changing and and its that which influences the tone of my trip.

then again other things like setting and other drugs play a role...


--------------------

Edited by MentalMeltdown (07/19/09 12:55 PM)

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OfflineBilly1111
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: iluvfungi]
    #10703853 - 07/19/09 12:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iluvfungi said:
Psychedelic drugs are nothing. The entire experience is created by what you believe the drug will do based on others interpretations of that reality.





i cant even interpret DMT period nevermind an others interpretaion of it

i cant even make up the stuff seen on it


--------------------
"to be free of the opinion of others......to be free of the opinion of yourself............"

I have schizophrenia.All my post are lies written by one of my alter egos.Help search for a cure.


Edited by Billy1111 (07/19/09 12:49 PM)

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Almond Flour]
    #10708280 - 07/20/09 08:30 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tea said:
Weve all seen that one guy on here. We may have even been that one guy at one point in our life's. That overly excited newbie filled with claims of enlightenment and amazement at what psychedelics may offer in terms of spirituality.

You create your reality. You create your Gods/Goddesses you may worship :smirk: Psychedelics simply take your inner emotions, thoughts, and experiences and turn them into an outer expression of unprocessed information.

THats it! Psychedelics may have some benefit when it comes to the psychological processes of the mind. But be very careful about what you tell yourself on how the world works. We have guys on here who start to picture everyone else as an illusion, and other creepy shit like that.

Dont turn yourself into a walking pile of psychosis, who is so out there that he cant even express or relate himself to the society he is apart of. As I get older I meet more and more people who have taken psychedelics as well. They are interesting/nice people. But some of them are downright fucking weird. Everything about them screams.....Ive taken 1 too many drugs in my life. Others are overly emotional/sensitive new agers, who have no common relation to the average brainwashed American.

How on earth are you going to help the robots of our society, if you have made yourself unable to communicate properly. How on earth will you push a conservative Christian out of their close minded ways......If all you can talk about is shit they are unable to relate to?

Keep your drug use private

Keep your dosage minimal

Keep your spiritual practices in some other areas besides Psychedelics

and Stop preaching the Gospel of Psychedelic Liberation. True beneficial promotion and use of psychedelics involves more than simple ingestion of a substance. Even the great psychedelic pioneers are educated men who had PhD's and shit.

/end rant




If you experienced less than half of what I've experienced you would disagree with yourself.

The psychedelic experience is very subjective, so many different people with different lives and different beliefs, it is no wonder that psychedelic drugs affect each of us in different ways.

I believe that if you are open to the idea of having a spiritual experience with psychedelic drugs that you would be more inclined to have such an experience.

I would be shocked to find out that someone could take 4-5 hits of strong LSD and not have a spiritual experience but stranger things have happened.

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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Kickle]
    #10708473 - 07/20/09 09:35 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
There are MANY great things about this community.
Tea just happened to choose a topic which was akin to hitting a wasps nest with a bat.
I find it interesting, because it challenges those who claim growth through psychedelics to prove it.
Instead, the wasps reacted instinctively, proving that they're no different than any other wasp hive, and are equally ready to sting when they feel threatened.






And this my friends.....is precisely what I was aiming for with this thread. I am amazed at the posts you guys have replied with. As for not responding for a while.....keep in mind I live in a tent, and only get to use the computer at a public library :lol:

Perhaps the title of this thread was misleading. Im not saying Ive never benefited spiritually from psychedelics. Believe me, ive had my share of religious experiences on mushrooms :jesus:

But what I really wanted to express is that at the end of the day, it takes allot more than getting "High" to achieve higher states of consciousness. It takes work, and a constant effort in life that will sometimes require a sober mindset. And all too often I see people on this forum forget that :shrug:


But as mentioned, awesome replies. Some of your views and arguments are amazingly convincing.


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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Offlinestzacrack
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Almond Flour]
    #10708746 - 07/20/09 10:48 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"Keep your drug use private

Keep your dosage minimal

Keep your spiritual practices in some other areas besides Psychedelics"

Tea -

Keep - your ignorance to yourself

Keep - your culturally conditioned opinions of what a "high" or "low" dose is to yourself

Keep - the notion that someone in our time cannot use psychedelics in a spiritual practice to gain spiritual advancement, whether those psychedelics are intertwined with one, two, or three hundred different faiths.

As a matter of fact...you sound a lot like a robot yourself :confused: and I have no idea how to help you friend :frown:

How does one communicate "properly"?  According to your robotic definition...

Why do you assume that everyone here has been motivated by pyschedelics to "push a conservative Christian out of their close minded ways"?  Do you often force your beliefs upon others?  Or is that only part of your programming...

What makes one psychedelic pioneer better than another?  Are we supposed to automatically grant someone with a "PHD and shit" who writes about psychedelics the title of "great psychedelic pioneer"?  Is that why they got their "PHD's and shit"?

"Psychedelics may have some benefit when it comes to the psychological processes of the mind. But be very careful about what you tell yourself on how the world works. We have guys on here who start to picture everyone else as an illusion, and other creepy shit like that."  -  What do you know of the way that each shroomerites "world works", and who is right or wrong?  Do we not all perceive the world through the interpretation of the 5 senses singular to your existence?  I think I understand where this came from though...They assembled all robots exactly the same in your factory, right?

How do you know if my visions are unprocessed information? 

Actually, Tea, maybe I should've begun this post with a simpler question.  Have you ever taken a psychedelic?

Well, I may not know what you mean by that "one guy" you describe, but I do know that you are that "one guy" who sounds like an ignoramus.

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Offlinecosnik
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: stzacrack]
    #10709001 - 07/20/09 11:49 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

tappin that cask of collective consciousness, sangria of the gods

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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: cosnik]
    #10710341 - 07/20/09 03:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

this thread is, welll. bullshit


thanks for helping everyone

i know i have now


--------------------



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InvisibleMelusina
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Almond Flour]
    #10710345 - 07/20/09 03:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tea said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
There are MANY great things about this community.
Tea just happened to choose a topic which was akin to hitting a wasps nest with a bat.
I find it interesting, because it challenges those who claim growth through psychedelics to prove it.
Instead, the wasps reacted instinctively, proving that they're no different than any other wasp hive, and are equally ready to sting when they feel threatened.






And this my friends.....is precisely what I was aiming for with this thread. I am amazed at the posts you guys have replied with. As for not responding for a while.....keep in mind I live in a tent, and only get to use the computer at a public library :lol:

Perhaps the title of this thread was misleading. Im not saying Ive never benefited spiritually from psychedelics. Believe me, ive had my share of religious experiences on mushrooms :jesus:

But what I really wanted to express is that at the end of the day, it takes allot more than getting "High" to achieve higher states of consciousness. It takes work, and a constant effort in life that will sometimes require a sober mindset. And all too often I see people on this forum forget that :shrug:


But as mentioned, awesome replies. Some of your views and arguments are amazingly convincing.





Wait a minute...the title of the thread wasn't misleading...what you posted the first time was completely different from what you just said.

I think you just totally reversed your position???

And anyway - How can one "prove" a spiritual experience? For that matter, how can one prove that it didn't happen?

For instance...an Ant bite. It hurts, then it itches. Right? It can't be proven. Yes, I can show you the welt. I can even drag in a scientist to explain what reaction takes place that causes the pain, and then the itching. In the end, though, what I experience is a response to stimuli. I experience it as pain, or an itch-but that is only MY interpretation of it.

Threads like this challenge both sides to prove what they believe. How come it's generally understood that the people on the "spiritual experience" side should prove themselves? Why does the burden of proof lie on one side of the other?  It's impossible to prove either way. Just as it cannot be proven, beyond a doubt, that God does or does not exist-yet most people believe in god(s) in one form or the other.

I'm not sure what I think about psychedelic spirituality. I made that clear in my first reply. But how can it be considered any less valid than any other form?

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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Melusina]
    #10710357 - 07/20/09 04:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

yeah ok

seriously now

if you guys want to discuss this im more than happy to read it and moderate it and whatnot

but if you guys are just gona jab each other and  rile shit up in a "horrnets nest kinda fashion we can mov this thread to p+s cus they are much more down to jabber in pointless circles about this kinda crap






this is kindergarden class stuff


--------------------



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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: notapillow]
    #10710405 - 07/20/09 04:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Threads like this challenge both sides to prove what they believe. How come it's generally understood that the people on the "spiritual experience" side should prove themselves? Why does the burden of proof lie on one side of the other?  It's impossible to prove either way. Just as it cannot be proven, beyond a doubt, that God does or does not exist-yet most people believe in god(s) in one form or the other.




It's not about what you believe, but whether or not you actually act in accordance with it.
Are you hypocritical, saying one thing, and then acting another?
Or do you walk the walk that you talk about. IMO, that is what this thread was about.

It's easy for people who do psychedelics to say they are accepting, open minded, and full of love. But when push comes to shove, the reaction is the same as in any religion. Some will embody such talk, and really represent it. Some will represent it's opposite.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (07/20/09 04:13 PM)

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InvisibleMelusina
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Kickle]
    #10710536 - 07/20/09 04:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:


Threads like this challenge both sides to prove what they believe. How come it's generally understood that the people on the "spiritual experience" side should prove themselves? Why does the burden of proof lie on one side of the other?  It's impossible to prove either way. Just as it cannot be proven, beyond a doubt, that God does or does not exist-yet most people believe in god(s) in one form or the other.




It's not about what you believe, but whether or not you actually act in accordance with it.
Are you hypocritical, saying one thing, and then acting another?
Or do you walk the walk that you talk about. IMO, that is what this thread was about.

It's easy for people who do psychedelics to say they are accepting, open minded, and full of love. But when push comes to shove, the reaction is the same as in any religion. Some will embody such talk, and really represent it. Some will represent it's opposite.




Agreed.

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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Melusina]
    #10710582 - 07/20/09 04:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

hypocrocy in omnipresent

good luck walking a straight path and not throwing stones

u will need it


--------------------



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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Almond Flour]
    #10710591 - 07/20/09 04:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tea said:
Weve all seen that one guy on here. We may have even been that one guy at one point in our life's. That overly excited newbie filled with claims of enlightenment and amazement at what psychedelics may offer in terms of spirituality.



You create your reality. You create your Gods/Goddesses you may worship :smirk: Psychedelics simply take your inner emotions, thoughts, and experiences and turn them into an outer expression of unprocessed information.



THats it! Psychedelics may have some benefit when it comes to the psychological processes of the mind. But be very careful about what you tell yourself on how the world works. We have guys on here who start to picture everyone else as an illusion, and other creepy shit like that.

Dont turn yourself into a walking pile of psychosis, who is so out there that he cant even express or relate himself to the society he is apart of. As I get older I meet more and more people who have taken psychedelics as well. They are interesting/nice people. But some of them are downright fucking weird. Everything about them screams.....Ive taken 1 too many drugs in my life. Others are overly emotional/sensitive new agers, who have no common relation to the average brainwashed American.










How on earth are you going to help the robots of our society, if you have made yourself unable to communicate properly. How on earth will you push a conservative Christian out of their close minded ways......If all you can talk about is shit they are unable to relate to?

Keep your drug use private

Keep your dosage minimal

Keep your spiritual practices in some other areas besides Psychedelics

and Stop preaching the Gospel of Psychedelic Liberation. True beneficial promotion and use of psychedelics involves more than simple ingestion of a substance. Even the great psychedelic pioneers are educated men who had PhD's and shit.


/end rant





Take a closer look and youll find its not that im "Anti" psychedelic spirituality. I guess I was misleading in the title, but I was trying to express the extreme. Its the extreme use of drugs only for spiritual conscious that im against.


Where in my post did I say even moderate psychedelic use lacks in benefits? :strokebeard:


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Almond Flour]
    #10710611 - 07/20/09 04:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

so you dmit the poi nt of your thread was to more or less look col and not really shed much light on anything at all


im pretty sure most of us agree phychedelics are not a key answer nto path t enlightonment


they are part of a larger fabric



i just really disike threads aimed at creating disent and disrtactin people from simple truths

you could have made these same points without pissing people off


--------------------



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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: notapillow]
    #10710639 - 07/20/09 04:46 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

notapillow said:
so you dmit the poi nt of your thread was to more or less look col and not really shed much light on anything at all


im pretty sure most of us agree phychedelics are not a key answer nto path t enlightonment


they are part of a larger fabric



i just really disike threads aimed at creating disent and disrtactin people from simple truths

you could have made these same points without pissing people off





But a pure raw emotion like anger brings out the best and most biased arguments. :onfire:


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Psychedelic Spirituality = Bullshit [Re: Almond Flour]
    #10710652 - 07/20/09 04:49 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

im disagree


it just casues the same old meltdowns and pointless caw caw cawing


--------------------



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