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Offlinetonos
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psilocybin extraction process?
    #10691101 - 07/17/09 12:30 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I was wondering what the most simple and efficient method of extracting psilocin and psilocybin is. I've looked at plenty of articles describing the process but was wondering if there was a very simple procedure that involves isopropyl alcohol.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? [Re: tonos]
    #10691664 - 07/17/09 02:12 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

you dont wanna use isopropyl alcohol, It's better to use grain alcohol(everclear) witch it 151-190 proof. the basic process is to powder the mushrooms then put them into a mason jar. Add your solvent(grain alcohol) let it sit for a period of time(I dont rember) then you filter off the mushroom matter out of the solvent(grain alcohol). Then you let the solvent(grain alcohol) witch now contains psilocybin sit for a few days untill you are left with a bunch of crystals at the bottom of the jar.

Thats the only extraction tek I know of.


By the way, I have used 91% isopropyl alcohol just to see if it would work & it did. But I think isopropyl alcohol might leave some kind of residue behind after it evaporates.


Edited by SRHooM (07/17/09 02:22 AM)


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? [Re: SRHooM]
    #10692228 - 07/17/09 04:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

isopropyl alcohol is toxic to humans

i would want to use grain alcohol 0everclear), but i hear you can use ethanol, or even vinegar.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? [Re: jingus]
    #10693243 - 07/17/09 12:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_journal1.shtml

This describes in great detail the efficacy of different extraction methods. They don't use straight ethanol at any point because "The problem with wet alcohol is that the enzymes which dephosphorylise Psilocybin to the instable Psilocin are also extracted from the biomass."

So in short, if you're gonna be using it rather quickly, alcohol is fine. Otherwise, try vinegar, although I don't know what a person would do with active vinegar... Anyone want the most amazing plate of fish and chips ever? :smile:

And as a final note: DO NOT use methanol. Unless you are a chemist (in which case you probably wouldn't have asked this here) just don't do it. That stuff can and will harm you at relatively low dosages.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? [Re: jingus]
    #10693249 - 07/17/09 12:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jingus said:
i would want to use grain alcohol 0everclear), but i hear you can use ethanol




grain alcohol == everclear == ethanol

Just so we're clear on that.


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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: psilocybin extraction process? [Re: radiantthought]
    #10693413 - 07/17/09 12:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

radiantthought said:
And as a final note: DO NOT use methanol. Unless you are a chemist (in which case you probably wouldn't have asked this here) just don't do it. That stuff can and will harm you at relatively low dosages.




only swallowing >10mL. handling it isn't toxic.

there is even methanol in whiskey, and other distilled spirits

and isopropyl alcohol isn't that toxic either. you guys are scared of methanol and isopropyl alcohol because of what the liver oxidizes them to: formaldehyde and acetone, respectively.  there are trace amounts of both in human plasma anyway.
if you evap the alcohols properly, you'd have nothing to worry about.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? [Re: piracetam]
    #10693445 - 07/17/09 12:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm just saying, if he doesn't know how to handle it, it's dangerous stuff.


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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: tonos]
    #10694102 - 07/17/09 02:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.

Reason:
Off topic in advanced mycology.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10694158 - 07/17/09 03:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

so is vinegar the best?

I wouldn't mind putting some vinegar on my fish and chips !!!

I dunno how well it would stay down tho...


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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: canadadreaming]
    #10694413 - 07/17/09 04:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

yes

though keep in mind: the alcohol extraction is used to extract psilocybin. the vinegar extraction will convert psilocybin to psilocin.
imo, the latter is more desirable as psilocin is the more visual compound, albeit less stable. it can be converted to an ascorbate salt (using a solution of Vitamin C), for greater stability; or you could dissolve it in OJ.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: piracetam]
    #10694434 - 07/17/09 04:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Add vinegar to OJ?

That doesn't sound so good.

what is the actual yield that could be gained from this?


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: canadadreaming]
    #10694447 - 07/17/09 04:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

ive extracted with regular vinegar....


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: canadadreaming]
    #10694458 - 07/17/09 04:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

canadadreaming said:
Add vinegar to OJ?




err, no.

the extraction is A/B. vinegar is the acid, ammonia is typically used for the base. the greenish residue remaining after evaporating the non-polar solvent will be crude psilocin freebase, which can be redissolved in OJ.

Quote:


what is the actual yield that could be gained from this?




depends on the amount of dried material used


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: piracetam]
    #10694461 - 07/17/09 04:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlineelectrics
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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: Dr. Siekadellyk]
    #10694478 - 07/17/09 04:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Stick with the evrclear..IMO...e


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: electrics]
    #10694576 - 07/17/09 04:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

meh

done both types.
alcohol pulls other peptide components from the fungal mass, it's a dirtier extraction.

psilocin extraction, using vinegar, is better, imo; though I realize most will go the lazy route as they don't have access to certain solvents (i.e. dcm and heptane). the a/b route is more involved, the results more satisfying (if done correctly)


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: piracetam]
    #10695695 - 07/17/09 07:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
though keep in mind: the alcohol extraction is used to extract psilocybin. the vinegar extraction will convert psilocybin to psilocin.
imo, the latter is more desirable as psilocin is the more visual compound, albeit less stable.




This seems contradictory to

"The problem with wet alcohol is that the enzymes which dephosphorylise Psilocybin to the instable Psilocin are also extracted from the biomass. This also occurs with acetic acid but to a smaller amount and does not occur at all with pure methanol (ethanol?)."

from the erowid paper I linked earlier.


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This is your new mantra, say it every day when you wake up for good health.

AlexP said: that's a good mantra for week one. The mantra for week two should be: "I will not improvise. I will not improvise. I will not improvise."


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: radiantthought]
    #10695731 - 07/17/09 07:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

excuse the ignorrant question but why extract it?


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? [Re: radiantthought]
    #10695750 - 07/17/09 07:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

radiantthought said:
Quote:

jingus said:
i would want to use grain alcohol 0everclear), but i hear you can use ethanol




grain alcohol == everclear == ethanol

Just so we're clear on that.





lol, yup..


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: radiantthought]
    #10696160 - 07/17/09 09:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

radiantthought said:
Quote:

piracetam said:
though keep in mind: the alcohol extraction is used to extract psilocybin. the vinegar extraction will convert psilocybin to psilocin.
imo, the latter is more desirable as psilocin is the more visual compound, albeit less stable.




This seems contradictory to

"The problem with wet alcohol is that the enzymes which dephosphorylise Psilocybin to the instable Psilocin are also extracted from the biomass. This also occurs with acetic acid but to a smaller amount and does not occur at all with pure methanol (ethanol?)."

from the erowid paper I linked earlier.




how is it contradictory?

acetic serves as an acid catalyst for the dephosphorylation reaction. alcohol isn't as effective as pulling the more active psilocin from the fungal biomass. alcohol won't even dephosphorylate psilocybin, though steaming the dried fungi might. once the mushrooms are dried, those enzymes are inactive, so the dephosphorylation must be done endothermically.

as far as pulling actives
acetic acid > EtOH and MeOH


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: piracetam]
    #10696262 - 07/17/09 09:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It would seem that you and the paper are talking about two different things then. Since the paper is talking about extracted enzymes which desphosphylate the psylocybin into psylocin (which seem to be more prominent in the ethanol extraction) and you seem to be talking about the interactions between the solvents and the psylocybin.

Do I have it straight now? :smile:


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This is your new mantra, say it every day when you wake up for good health.

AlexP said: that's a good mantra for week one. The mantra for week two should be: "I will not improvise. I will not improvise. I will not improvise."


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: Billy1111]
    #10696411 - 07/17/09 10:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Billy1111 said:
excuse the ignorrant question but why extract it?




Just to do so, I have also heard that by ingesting pure psilocin/psilocybin won't cause cramps, which I get in my legs ver badly.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: piracetam]
    #10696418 - 07/17/09 10:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

what kind of extract will you end up with?

A liquid?


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: canadadreaming]
    #10696442 - 07/17/09 10:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

hopefully a powder, but if i wanted to i could leave it as a liquid


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: canadadreaming]
    #10696446 - 07/17/09 10:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I know it would be a bunch  of extra work, but I recall reading an article about someone who did an A/B extraction. Could that work?


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: radiantthought]
    #10696456 - 07/17/09 10:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

radiantthought said:
It would seem that you and the paper are talking about two different things then. Since the paper is talking about extracted enzymes which desphosphylate the psylocybin into psylocin (which seem to be more prominent in the ethanol extraction) and you seem to be talking about the interactions between the solvents and the psylocybin.

Do I have it straight now? :smile:




perhaps

again, to be clear, those enzymes will be inactive in dried mushrooms, i.e. non-functional. from fresh mushrooms, the alcohol will extract primarily psilocybin, as psilocin is embedded deep within the fungal cells.

the alcoholic extraction is simple, less tedious, and doesn't involve potentially hazardous non-polar solvents. psilocybin is stable enough that it can be extracted in a soxhlet.

the A/B extraction, when done carefully, will yield more actives. the latter procedure is tricky, requires less heat, and is sensitive to highly basic solution


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: Simulacra541]
    #10696466 - 07/17/09 10:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Simulacra541 said:
I know it would be a bunch  of extra work, but I recall reading an article about someone who did an A/B extraction. Could that work?




yes.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: piracetam]
    #10696497 - 07/17/09 10:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, the first step is generally to extract to a liquid, then you can concentrate it to whatever level you want, to a powder in most cases or if it's a very clean one
Quote:

piracetam said:
Quote:

radiantthought said:
It would seem that you and the paper are talking about two different things then. Since the paper is talking about extracted enzymes which desphosphylate the psylocybin into psylocin (which seem to be more prominent in the ethanol extraction) and you seem to be talking about the interactions between the solvents and the psylocybin.

Do I have it straight now? :smile:




perhaps

again, to be clear, those enzymes will be inactive in dried mushrooms, i.e. non-functional. from fresh mushrooms, the alcohol will extract primarily psilocybin, as psilocin is embedded deep within the fungal cells.

the alcoholic extraction is simple, less tedious, and doesn't involve potentially hazardous non-polar solvents. psilocybin is stable enough that it can be extracted in a soxhlet.

the A/B extraction, when done carefully, will yield more actives. the latter procedure is tricky, requires less heat, and is sensitive to highly basic solution




If the enzymes are 'inactive' as you say then why would they bother mentioning it in the paper? It just seems like a strange thing to write a whole paragraph about in your paper if it's not relevant. Ofcourse this paper WAS written in 94, so perhaps it was discovered later that the enzymes in question were deactivated in the drying process, no?


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This is your new mantra, say it every day when you wake up for good health.

AlexP said: that's a good mantra for week one. The mantra for week two should be: "I will not improvise. I will not improvise. I will not improvise."


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: radiantthought]
    #10696540 - 07/17/09 10:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

enzymes are the machinery of the living fungal tissue... once you dry them, they're dead. they can be isolated, but they cannot undergo protein folding.

I also mentioned in a previous response that alcohol will extract various peptides from the fungal biomass, but these peptides will not dephosphorylate the psilocybin. they would be inactive.


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: piracetam]
    #10776865 - 07/31/09 09:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

glad i found this and just want to get it in my treads so i wont forget


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Re: psilocybin extraction process? (moved) [Re: feelfunny]
    #10776893 - 07/31/09 09:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

better way is to scroll down to the bottom and hit 'toggle favorite' then it shows up in your favorites (in your account screen) instead of getting lost in all your threads. Not to mention it prevents thread necromancy.

If your favorites are getting too clogged you can go ahead and do what some do and create a journal entry of useful links and separate them by category.


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This is your new mantra, say it every day when you wake up for good health.

AlexP said: that's a good mantra for week one. The mantra for week two should be: "I will not improvise. I will not improvise. I will not improvise."


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