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Amazon Shop: HEPA Filter, Ultrasonic Humidifier

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OfflineLangdon
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Registered: 10/24/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters
    #1068061 - 11/20/02 12:16 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

A friend of mine is having some problems with his set-up:

He is wondering how his HEPA filter will hold-up against a 100% humid climate. He is currently using a Venmar HEPA 1000 www.venmar-ventilation.com to re-circulate the air throughout his chamber. He wants to know if his machine is going to get too saturated and bust on him.

My friend needs to maintain a high level of CO2 during the spawn running and post-casing periods of his cycle. For this reason he has to re-circulate the air and is concerned about the high humidity moving throughout his Venmar.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

He has tried emailing the company but to no avail.

-Langdon


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BTW, the above information pertains to the cultivation of shitake mushrooms and none other. I only use the shroomery forums as an information source for fungi propogation, not the cultivation of psylocibes.


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InvisibleBilge
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Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Langdon]
    #1069258 - 11/20/02 11:36 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i don't understand the point of re-circulating the air. what is this supposed to accomplish? if you want extra CO2, why use any circulation at all?


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Bilge]
    #1069377 - 11/20/02 12:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

The point of recirculation of air is one that nobody around here ever gets. You keep the air moving, which drastically thwarts contams, but you don't get too many air exchanges which dries out and damages the casing. Also, by recirculating through a hepa, you drastically reduce the possibility of contams.

Take a look at any professional set-up. It uses air circulation, air REcirculation, and various types of conditioning.

To answer the original question, I have no idea. Some hepas can handle high humidity, some can't. some are rated up to 85%, some up to 100. I'd ask the manufacturer directly.


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: mycofile]
    #1069425 - 11/20/02 12:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for that info. now i am not so confused.  :grin:


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OfflineLangdon
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Bilge]
    #1069525 - 11/20/02 01:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

My friend emailed the maker of this product with his question.

This is the response he got:

"This unit is designed for residential use only. Therefore it is exposed to
normal humidity range depending on the region. We cannot recommend for any
other application."

The unit is meant to be hooked up so air from outside your house is filtered and then sent throughout your air exchange system.

My friend has been thinking on how to avoid having to re-circulate this air and still maintain accurate CO2 levels...



Has anyone tired this before or have any thoughts. (He hopes the picture makes sense)


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BTW, the above information pertains to the cultivation of shitake mushrooms and none other. I only use the shroomery forums as an information source for fungi propogation, not the cultivation of psylocibes.


Edited by Langdon (11/20/02 01:28 PM)


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OfflineFred Garvin
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: mycofile]
    #1069869 - 11/20/02 02:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Help me understand what you're saying, Mycofile. Tell me if I'm close. You want to recirculate moist air, to keep the casings hydrated, while the moving air decreases the chances of contams. Then you would syphon in some fresh filtered air occasionally to exchange Oxygen for CO2?
If so, I wonder if using a cool mist humidifier which draws its intake from a chamber supplied by a HEPA unit would work. That would seem to satisfy most of your parameters. Maybe with a separate fan in the fruiting chamber to keep the air circulating when the cool mist is on the off cycle. Whadya think? Am I halfway close?





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OfflineLangdon
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Registered: 10/24/02
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Fred Garvin]
    #1070689 - 11/20/02 05:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I think in this case we are not talking about fresh air exchanges but more towards a consistant variable level of CO2 in PPM (parts per million)

Moving the air itself is not going to reduce the number of contams, but re-circulating clean air will. (obviously the more times you send the same air through a HEPA filter the cleaner it will get)

I hope this helps

-Langdon


--------------------
BTW, the above information pertains to the cultivation of shitake mushrooms and none other. I only use the shroomery forums as an information source for fungi propogation, not the cultivation of psylocibes.


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InvisibleAlkaloids
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Langdon]
    #1071174 - 11/20/02 07:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

if this is a positive pressure system then what you have illustrated in your diagram would cause a loss of humidity (assuming you are not adding humidity after the Venmar HEPA). So yes you could maintain high CO2 levels, but you would not be recirculating the air from within. As long as you can add extra humidity. post Venmar, then I think your setup should work quite nicely.
good luck


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OfflineLangdon
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Alkaloids]
    #1071401 - 11/20/02 09:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

He is planning on putting the humidifer within in the chamber and having positive air pressure.

The diagram is illustrating a situation where no humidity would be sent through the Venmar, he doesn't want to risk a $500 machine.

The positive pressure would have to be vented out of the chamber resulting in a lost of CO2 in the atmosphere, hence the CO2 tank.

The humidifier will have to turn cartwheels to keep the chamber moist... hmm

Thanks

-Langdon



--------------------
BTW, the above information pertains to the cultivation of shitake mushrooms and none other. I only use the shroomery forums as an information source for fungi propogation, not the cultivation of psylocibes.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Langdon]
    #1077015 - 11/22/02 03:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

Moving the air itself is not going to reduce the number of contams, but re-circulating clean air will. (obviously the more times you send the same air through a HEPA filter the cleaner it will get)



langdon, that's the exact opposite of what I was getting at. Simply moving the air, whether it's filtered or not will reduce contams. Many contams (esp. trichoderma, cobweb, and bacterial blotch) thrive in stagnant air. If you have have a set-up that provides constantly moving air without damaging the casing surface, it's very difficult to get trich to grow.

Of course refiltering air will make it cleaner, but simply keeping it moving will keep the contams from growing.

Also, casings should be incubated in high c02 conditions. Everybody knows that. But how many of you have had casings contam while they were covered with foil or something waiting to be colonized? If your setup allows for the recirculation of air with no fresh air input, the casings can be kept in non-stagnant air, high co2, and high humidity.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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OfflineMajor_Buzz
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Langdon]
    #1077118 - 11/22/02 04:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I am sorry because I am suffering from "brain-lock" at the moment. I belive there is a type of spore killing light (kinda like a UV) that could be used in place of the HEPA filter. Is it germostatic? Wouldn't this work?


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OfflineLangdon
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Registered: 10/24/02
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Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: mycofile]
    #1077227 - 11/22/02 05:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I think we are having a few problems with our english here mycofile.

Ovbiously moving the air is not going to reduce the number of contamination capable organisims. Re-filtering the air will.

I agree with you that moving the air will definatly disrupt their breeding habits. I think what you meant to state is that moving the air will reduce your chance of contamination, because the nasty organisims have a smaller window in which to multiply.

UV lights are great but they only kill the organisims not filter them out. Some probaly use them very sucessfully. Personally I think it would be overkill to include it in a system like this.


--------------------
BTW, the above information pertains to the cultivation of shitake mushrooms and none other. I only use the shroomery forums as an information source for fungi propogation, not the cultivation of psylocibes.


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InvisibleAlkaloids
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Registered: 11/16/98
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Loc: pubis mons
Re: Re-circulated Air and HEPA filters [Re: Langdon]
    #1077333 - 11/22/02 05:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Yes UVC lights will kill organisms. This does result in less of them being around and amounts to simply adding a few dead microorganisms to the air. Most likely not enough debris to impact your grow. Merely having some small fans in the grow room for air entrainment would obiviate the need for the CO2 and additional humidification as mycofile pointed out. If you kept a UVC light inside of an enclosure with the recirculation air running through it then this would also cut down on the viable contaminant spores/organisms.
This way you would only have to utilize the Venmar system and extra humidification when introducing fresh air into your setup. Seems to be much less energy for, most likely, comparable results.
If you happen to be looking for a UVC light source PM. Otherwise I hope these comments have been helpful.


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