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InvisibleStonehenge
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E novogranatense
    #10663971 - 07/12/09 04:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

There has been some renewed interest in growing this plant. I thought i would share some tips and info on it. Feel free to ask questions.

This is a plant originally found in S America and grown also in parts of Africa and the middle east. It has a similar make up and chemical profile to e coca. The main difference, for those in the states, is that e coca is scheduled by the DEA and therefore illegal while e novo is not. Extracting even from e novo can get you into trouble, much the same as extracting from san pedro or a number of other legal plants. Even making a tea could do it. I'm not sure of the legality of eating the leaves or chewing them so I don't do any of that stuff. Please don't ask me about illegal things. All I do is enjoy looking at them and try to preserve the species.

E novo is relatively easy to grow. It being a tropical, can't take any cold so they have to be taken in during cold months. They do fine by a window and make a good houseplant year around.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinek1ng
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10668002 - 07/13/09 09:17 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

funny thing, i was just readin up on cocaine alkaloids

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/601

also there are articles in journal of ethnobotany and Journal of plant physiology of intrest concerning e. nova and e.coca.


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Offlinek1ng
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: k1ng]
    #10668068 - 07/13/09 09:29 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

another thing, e. novogranatense is not legal to grow in usa, even tho only e.coca is mentioned spesific in the laws. it falls under the analogue act; ill quote in something for you;:

Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, 1961

of New York

The Parties,


Hereby agree as follows:

Definitions

Art. 1. - 1. Except where otherwise expressly indicated or where the context otherwise requires, the following definitions shall apply throughout the Convention:


e. " Coca bush " means the plant of any species of the genus erythroxylon.

f. " Coca leaf ' means the leaf of the coca bush except a leaf from which all ecgonine, cocaine and any other ecgonine alkaloids have been removed


i. " Cultivation" means the cultivation of the opium poppy, coca bush or cannabis plant.

j. " Drug" means any of the substances in Schedules I and II, whether natural or synthetic.


t. "Production" means the separation of opium, coca leaves, cannabis and cannabis resin from the plants from which they are obtained.



you can see they use the word coca bush there, coca bush is any member of the erythroxylum genus producing cocaine alkaloids. without exeptions.



Edited by k1ng (07/13/09 09:33 AM)


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: k1ng]
    #10668132 - 07/13/09 09:51 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Yep,he's right,e.novogranatense is illegal to grow in the US.Although it's not as widely cultivated as e.coca,it still contains quite a bit of alkaloids,and there are certain areas in South America where people grow it instead of e.coca.I still wouldn't mind trying my hand at cultivating it though:wink:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: KBG1977]
    #10668406 - 07/13/09 11:00 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

You could use the same logic to say san pedro is illegal. We know mescaline is illegal and you can find wording saying that anything containing mesc is illegal. Likewise, you can find specific language saying poppies are illegal. I say in all those cases, including e novo, show me one case in which anyone was prosecuted just for growing those plants. Not for extracting, not when other drugs were present or anything like that. You won't be able to do it.

In fact poppies are in a sense more illegal than e novo because poppies are specifically mentioned under the illegal plants whereas e novo is not. Yes novo is an analogue but show me where anyone was prosecuted for them?

Star jasmine has ibogaine in it. It grows everywhere and you can get them from a nursery same as san pedro, same as poppies, same as ethroxylon species. A lot of things are illegal in theory. Just thinking about or talking about doing something illegal is clearly illegal under the conspiracy statutes. And yet we see forums dedicated to talking about growing pot and other illegal things. Last i checked, it was illegal to grow psilocybe shrooms. Here we are talking about it, showing pics etc. Clearly illegal but it goes on.

Show me a shroomerite who went to jail just for talking about it. That's conspiracy but it's not prosecuted. Show me one person prosecuted just for growing poppies, pedro or e novo? I'm not saying all those things are totally legal. They fall into a sort of gray area. I'm saying they do not make cases against those things.

Who wants to talk about cultivating e novo? Just as a house plant, we aren't going to do anything illegal with it. In fact it's just in theory and only involves theoretical situations. Though i've heard they make nice house plants and you can put them outside when it's warm.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10668529 - 07/13/09 11:23 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Word:thumbup:


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OfflineNalim
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10670715 - 07/13/09 05:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

:ohwell: We talk about growing weed too and its pretty fucking illegal.

Anyway; I've always been interested in E. novogranatense.. Hopefully in the future I'll get a chance to cultivate some, after I move to a more suitable climate. I assume it likes some altitude? I'll probably live in a mountain landscape in a few years so I figure some wild cultivation could be cool.


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Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Nalim]
    #10670854 - 07/13/09 06:07 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

The needing elevation thing is a myth. It will grow at sea level. What it can't take is cold weather. It doesn't like it below 55f, below 45 it suffers damage. Freezing and it's gone usually. It's just a bush, take it in when it gets cold and leave it by a window. It doesn't like full sun that much anyway. Shade is good.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleMankey
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: KBG1977]
    #10671328 - 07/13/09 07:36 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Where the hell have you been, KBG?


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Mankey]
    #10672445 - 07/13/09 10:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

haha,no internet,and I move a few states up.Good to hear from ya good buddy:grin:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: KBG1977]
    #10688780 - 07/16/09 03:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Anybody have progress on their novos? I have a couple seedlings on the window sill.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10700971 - 07/18/09 07:17 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

you haven't sent me any berries yet :smirk:


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10701547 - 07/18/09 10:08 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

well hey me either! :smirk:

but its only been a day or two, plenty of time for it to arrive. i cant say how much i appreciate this opportunity btw. the only other source i know of is very expensive and in Asia. blekh! :eek:

thank you mr. stonehenge :tongue:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10703892 - 07/19/09 12:57 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Man, what an impatient crowd. Lit wants it instantly and Dr wants it before he's even given me his mailing info. That reminds me of the old joke in which the clerk asks the customer when he wants his order and he says "yesterday" Now days they aren't kidding. Good luck all with your plants.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10703914 - 07/19/09 01:03 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

:highfive:

:rabble:


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10704337 - 07/19/09 02:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

i expected it to arrive in today's mail! for gods sake:tongue2:

really I'm not being impatient I'm just kidding around :wink:


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10711105 - 07/20/09 06:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

:bow2: Stonehenge

my seeds showed up today! i paid for 4 and got 5, fantastic!

they showed up in what looks like peat moss inside a small plastic bag. i removed them carefully from the moss and placed them in a petri dish. right now they are 1/2 submerged in water in the petri dish. Ive looked around and I'm still nervous that I'm not taking care of these correctly! none have sprouted yet, how long should i expect to wait, another week, 2,  more?

i think i should place several paper towels in the dish, soak with water then place the berries on top. place the lid on the dish, loosely. some people recommend planting them now but in just wet verm. maybe ill put verm on the bottom of the dish instead of paper towels.  i have some GA3, not sure if i should throw any of that in.

god I'm so excited! ! ! ! !

thanks, for you:  :mushroom2:  :mushroom2:  :mushroom2:  :mushroom2:  :mushroom2:


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10711237 - 07/20/09 07:12 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)



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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10711297 - 07/20/09 07:25 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

That's an old thread of mine with some good info in it. We can't bump old threads for some reason.

Lit, i'm glad they made it safely. You could leave them in the damp moss or put them in soil. I've never tried putting them in water so i don't know how that will work. I've never tried ga3 with them. When the berries start getting old, i just toss them in the sprouting bag and still get around 50%. Actually more than that but that's kind of a secret because some people have bad luck and don't want to hear it.

Are you experienced with growing plants? You can kill them with kindness. Let the soil dry out between waterings, not too much ferts, etc. And do not force off the seed coat after they sprout and come up. Let it drop off by itself.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10711355 - 07/20/09 07:37 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

sure you can bump old threads if you have something relevant to add or it is needed to be seen (as in this case) :yesnod:

when n00bs come along and bump a 6 year old thread because they want to ask some inane question or give advice to a poster who hasn't been online for 4 years...
this is when people get annoyed with bumping :lol:


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10711772 - 07/20/09 08:47 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

i like to think im very good with plants. the only problem is all the light i have for all my plants is 6 25w cfl's... so yeah no picture i can post would back up my claim.

I will not remove the seed coats. soaking seeds in straight water hardly ever works for me so Ive gone with, plastic petri dish with a drop of bleach then some towels soaked in water, toss seeds on. then cover up with the second half of the dish. ill put one of the seeds in a petri dish with the peat that they came in. im so worried about contamination.

everyone else who have received their seeds, please post about how things are going.

thanks again.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10715720 - 07/21/09 02:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Lit, don't worry about contamination or mold. They normally turn dark before sprouting and often get moldy first. Keep the moss damp but not running with water to keep mold down and that will be fine. I would not use bleach. I've only ever used moss or dirt to sprout them but i guess paper towels would work.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineNubeEnLaMontana
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10726936 - 07/23/09 01:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

stonehenge, what pot size/material do you recommend for seedlings?  I tend to lean towards terra cotta (for other plants - never grown novo before), since I've made many a plant very unhappy in plastic due to the fact that the soil never seems to dry out.  How frequently or at what size do you transplant?


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: NubeEnLaMontana]
    #10727475 - 07/23/09 03:03 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Irie,
Just wanted to chip in here;
I've had a number of the seedlings heads fall off.....Don't panic!
The last two have now started to sprouting new growth, from what looks like just a stem....So there is a little hope.
But Stoney is there any pre-scarification that could be done? I guess you have a few seeds...maybe you could test some different methods out.
Respect
Z


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Zaka]
    #10728721 - 07/23/09 06:50 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Nube, i use small plastic pots but i let them dry out completely before watering. Never water when the soil is still damp.

Zaka, i'm not sure what you mean by seedlings heads falling off. Do you mean before the seedcoat falls? If that happens and all that is left is a stump they always die on me but it's a rare thing. I try to keep a plastic wrap over the seedling until the coat drops off. I think the added humidity aids in some way.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10731490 - 07/24/09 06:18 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Irie,
I found this problem with a number of species, of Erythroxylum, Tabernanthe, Psychotria. The seed coats do not shed off properly. Yeah most of the time they are stuffed....but manage to get a few to sprout leaves....Photo when they get bigger..
It happens even if kept in high humidity.
So what if a sharp blade was used to score the seed? to assist the shed?
Personally I don't have seeds enough to play with...Yet!
Respect
Z


Edited by Zaka (07/24/09 06:20 AM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Zaka]
    #10732183 - 07/24/09 10:40 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Scoring the seeds does not seem to help. I have in a few rare cases been able to save a seedling that was having that problem. It's hard, you need steady hands, good light, good eyes and good tec. Even so, i've ruined as many as i saved so i dont recommend it. It has an outer seedcoat and an inner membrane which can also be tricky to remove. The times i was successful i held the seedcoat by the tip and peeled away the coat with fingernails being extra careful not to put any stress on the stem by bending it or pulling on it. After the coat comes off then fine point tweezers can take off the membrane.

If it's progressing normally you don't want to try it. It takes a while to know when it's in trouble. They usually take a few days to go from being up to dropping the coat and some take longer than others. When it looks like they are bowing their head it usually means they are about ready to shed. Psychotria has some problems at times too, Iboga too.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10772779 - 07/31/09 05:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Irie Stoney,
Here it's got a couple more leaves.
Guess I must have just fluked it? The other one didn't make it!
But this is one that lost it's head and was just a nice dark green stem for a couple of weeks. Then 1 small light green growth, followed by another then another..
No more Erythroxylum spp left to play with, but got 5 Iboga to germ next.
Respect
Z


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Zaka]
    #10776303 - 07/31/09 06:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Zaka, congratulations on saving it. What i think may have happened is once in a while the coat starts to come off a little and then gets stuck. Then the leaves inside the coat die and the coat falls. However, if the growing tip has gotten out then it can start growing new leaves even without the cotyledons, or seed leaves. It may look like just a stump but if there is a tiny bit of the growing part it can survive with proper care. I've seen that on other species like p viridis but not yet on e novo. It can be a difference of 1/16" between dying and being able to make it.

Does anyone else have questions on the care of this plant?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense *DELETED* [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10789199 - 08/02/09 10:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by abcd4028

Reason for deletion: No longer needed



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Re: E novogranatense [Re: abcd4028]
    #10793783 - 08/03/09 05:46 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You want to put all your seeds into damp moss or damp soil right away, don't wait. They can take from a few days to a couple weeks to sprout. They can be kept in the fridge for up to about a month and still sprout but fresh is best. I just happen to have some e novo bushes bearing fruit right now and am open to trades or offers for fresh picked berries. Send me a pm and we'll talk.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10801773 - 08/04/09 09:39 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

well as of today still no germination :frown:

one of the five dried out. one is still in the original moist moss, one i planted and the last two are in petri dish with wet towels.

anyone having better luck than me?


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10807115 - 08/05/09 06:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

How did one dry out? You aren't supposed to let them dry out. That can kill them. That one is probably dead and if you let any of the others dry out, they are likely dead too. It's not that hard keeping them moist. It takes from a few days to a few weeks to sprout. After about a month, any that haven't sprouted are probably not going to. In moss, don't make the moss running with water, wring out the excess but keep it good and damp adding a little now and then.

It's a crap shoot, there are no guarantees of how many you will get. It depends in part on how good you take care of them and part is just dumb luck. People have told me they got 4 out of 4, 6 out of 6 and some get none. That's why i offer seedlings if someone wants a sure thing. Even with that, you could end up killing the plant. I killed my first batch because i didn't know how to take care of them. Be patient and in another couple weeks you may be smiling.

Don't put the seedlings in direct sunlight after they come up. Bright indirect light is best. As they get bigger, they can take more sun but not sun all day. I put my outdoor ones in a spot where they get sun late in the day.


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10808171 - 08/05/09 09:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

yeah the one that dried out was a total mistake. i had it on my desk and my wonderfully stupid cat knocked the petri dish on the ground. found it too late.

ill see how they go over the next 2 weeks. i may end up buying one of those seedlings from you. actually i can almost guarantee i will regardless of success.

just to make it clear to everyone, im not blaming the seller here. it is totally based on chance. don't let my experience stop you from trying it yourself. ive had plenty of seeds never germinate from viable batches.:frown:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10808220 - 08/05/09 09:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Cat's seem to like to kill ethnos on occasion.

:sniperkitty:


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Cactusdan]
    #10966632 - 08/30/09 02:33 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

OK so i got a new seedling on Friday! it came wonderfully packed, very healthy, good size etc. after i unpacked it, i gave it a good spray and some verm in the top layer to slowly water it and create a humid micro environment around the plant.


where it was shipped from the humidity is in the 80's, the temp in the high 80's.. here the humidity is about 20 on a good day and the temps 50 at night to about 80 during the day, not to mention I'm at 8000 feet.

so when i got it i gave it a little more soil, watered it and put it in ambient lighting inside where it doesn't get colder than the mid 60's at night. the next day it started looking a little unhappy. the top was drooping more than it was when i got it, the leafs kinda curled. so i freaked out!

i gave it much more humidity, a very little bit of see weed extract to help the stress and i moved it into the grow room (my lit up closet... lame) where there is more light. not much light though, its just enough to keep my salvia growing and my cacti stretch like crazy. my wild dagga hardly has gotten over 4 inches in 5 months... low light - its not too bright. here is what the pathetic little closet looks like right now. someday ill put up shelfs and buy some real lights...



so today i go out to look at it :frown: i just don't have the best of luck with this plant! the top part of the stem was still bent over but now its dark where it bends and a little skinny. it looks like the top is going to die and fall off! meanwhile the leafs are a little wilted looking and curly.so along with putting it on a heating pad (very low setting, supposedly they die off below 55F) i also treated the darkening in case some sort of rot etc i used a little tiny bit of garden safe fungicide/pesticide. its organic and really just a plant extract its safe. i also moved it further from the light. Its in the green bottle:



close ups yesterday night:





AND THE BIG UGLY, THE MOST RECENT PICTURE, 1 HOUR OLD:



i have worked my ass off trying to keep this plant healthy and to sprout seeds. like Ive mentioned before i don't have a brown thumb. considering my lighting conditions, where i live and the status of most of my plants i would say that i have a very green one.

what does everybody think is going on? humidity, light, air, elevation, shipping shock... what should i do?

the same thing happened when my poor little salvia came to me in the mail. but it didn't take as long to happen it was almost darkening when i got it. i topped it, removed the bad dark part, rooted the top and kept the bottom healthy. my current mother plant is that plant, it recovered great!

if the top where to fall off/ die / i cut it off if the darkness starts to spread, do you think ill get new growth sprouting from the bottom? I'm guessing not...

help please someone! I'm so worried, this is the second time Ive tried at this plant. its something Ive been wanting for all my gardening life! it is what i consider the ultimate plant that i want to grow
:frown:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10966693 - 08/30/09 02:46 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

there is no point in leaving that dead piece of stem at the tip, may as well cut that off.
it will branch from the remaining nodes i assume.

as for the reasons why this is happening i can't shed much light upon it, stoney is the man in the know :smirk:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10967263 - 08/30/09 04:21 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i feel like i was just told to chop off my new borns head, and i did it :frown: oh well, hopefully it will grow from the base after recovery.... maybe my beans will grow this time around.

dr., how did yours turn out? any germination yet?


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10967608 - 08/30/09 05:11 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

it won't shoot from the base, it will shoot from the nodes (where the leaves meet the stem) that are remaining below the part that shrivelled up and died... hopefully...

the berries i got spent at least 2 weeks inside a baggie (with moss) inside the envelope they were sent in, because i took an unexpected trip while they were already en route.
when i got back the package was waiting for me and all 6 berries had germinated in the baggie, so i just potted them up in a basic soil mix and put them in a humidity chamber.
i didnt bury them, just planted them with the berry at soil level.
they are a couple of inches tall now but they haven't shed their seed coats yet, apparently the elevated humidity helps with the shedding of the seed coat.
i'll get some pic's tomorrow.


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10967785 - 08/30/09 05:35 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

cool, i would be very interested in the appearance of these seeds at the mercy of one of the greenest thumbs on this site :wink:

it really is a finicky little plant, much more so than salvia in the hands of a salvia noob. but it can be done, i will not give up until i have a bush!

how long do you plan on keeping the humidity dome on?


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10967866 - 08/30/09 05:47 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i'll keep the propagator lid on until they decide that it is time to drop their seed coats :yesnod:

i don't really have a green thumb, my plants are given the choice to thrive on neglect or die lol
i'm a strong believer in my philosophy that alot of people love their plants to death :smirk:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10967879 - 08/30/09 05:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Guilty :tongue:


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Cactusdan]
    #10969643 - 08/30/09 09:54 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

hence the hypochondriac nick name...


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10972526 - 08/31/09 01:04 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, lit, you may have loved that seedling to death. If you cut the whole top off then it's finished. It will not sprout from the base. At least you have some berries to start over with. I recommend against using vermiculite because it promotes stem and root rot. You can keep up humidity without using that. Also, when a plant is doing poorly do not give it something. Leaving it alone is the best course most of the time. Ferting it or giving it something usually makes things worse. Let the soil get totally dry before watering it unless you see wilting. If it looks like it's wilting and the soil is damp, it's not wilting from dryness.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10973519 - 08/31/09 03:52 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

here's mine:




how long does it usually take for the seedcoats to drop off?
i'm getting tempted to pick at them already :tensegrin:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10973543 - 08/31/09 03:55 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

mine took about 2-3 weeks to fall off


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Big L]
    #10973678 - 08/31/09 04:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

thanks, that's good to know.
it's been a little over 2 weeks since they were planted.


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10973768 - 08/31/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

these plants sure do like to take there time at first


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Big L]
    #10973950 - 08/31/09 04:53 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Just don't let the seedcoats become dry, it needs to be soft (humid) to fall or to be picked.


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: KOPELANDIAA]
    #10973971 - 08/31/09 04:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i figured that out already, they are in a humidity chamber, just took off the lid for the pic's :yesnod:

this is great, i feel like a n00b again :smirk:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10974030 - 08/31/09 05:07 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i feel even more noob....

well i know i over loved it but only once there was almost immediate rot at the top of the stem. hopefully something will sprout from the nodes... i hope to god i can get them seeds going...

meanwhile the dead parts... quite nice to chew on! it was not much but it had a familar taste and little tingle to it. quite rewarding


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
    #10979602 - 09/01/09 01:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, doc, you should have had a few shed the coats by now. Don't go picking at them, that will usually kill them. I got to where i could do it most of the time using special tweezers, a good light and something to steady my hand. But even knowing what i was doing i killed a good percentage trying that. Now i just let them work it out. I keep plastic wrap over the seedling to keep up humidity. I usually kept the soil damp until the coat falls off.


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10980163 - 09/01/09 02:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

the first had dropped its seed coat when i checked on them today :yesnod:

i won't start picking at them for at least another week lol (just kidding) :smirk:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #11010657 - 09/06/09 05:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Good for you, doc. That tough love didn't kill them after all. But i would recommend to baby them if you can. I've had a few that never shed the coat and just died. Like i say, i keep them in high humidity which seems to help until they drop the coat. Then a more normal humidity but they are tropical plants so keep that in mind.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #11011334 - 09/06/09 07:36 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Keeping sprouts in open air outdoors, while misting the seedcoat directly once a day helped the sprouts shed their coats themselves without problems. :peace:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: plainswalker]
    #11029031 - 09/09/09 06:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Hey folks! Haven't been here in forever... Hey Stoney... you asked a few posts back how the Novos are doing... All of mine died except for one lone plant! This was some time ago though, but that one little guy is doing quite well! Not so little any more, flowering and setting seed none the less! Beautiful bright red berries! :psychsplit:

Thanks!


Edited by entheoindole (09/12/09 10:05 AM)


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: entheoindole]
    #11035309 - 09/10/09 04:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Hey enth, it's good to see you around. It must have been a while back you got those. Yeah they will die on you sometimes even if you are careful and more so if you are not. But as you show, even one survivor can lead to a garden full of them.

PW, that's a good tip if you are in a good climate. The stems tend to be a little weak and floppy when they are young especially those grown indoors. A little wind helps toughen them up but is not totally needed.

Anyone have some pics they want to brag on? Any questions or problems needing solutions?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #11045568 - 09/12/09 09:47 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Some, I was very careful with, others, not so careful, but the one that did survive, I've changed nothing about how I care for it. I guess this would be the "cream of the crop"... an ideal mother bush!

Question, when should the berries be harvested, or should they be left until they drop?


Edited by entheoindole (09/12/09 10:07 AM)


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: entheoindole]
    #11045715 - 09/12/09 10:21 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

You can harvest them when they are dark red (the more red before it dries).


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: sidvivius]
    #11051234 - 09/13/09 10:58 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, when they are bright red the berries are ready. It's ok if they are dark red or starting to wrinkle. Then they progress to getting darker and darker. They are usually dark brown when they sprout and may have mold on them. A little mold is not a problem.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #11234041 - 10/12/09 03:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Treat them the same as any plant. Let the soil dry out before watering. I usually keep them good and damp until they shed the seedcoat and then let the soil dry. Don't let them wilt because they don't like that. It's a little bit delicate and it's easy to lose them but treat them right and your garden will grow.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #11234501 - 10/12/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I can't wait to have some of my own.... Stoked stoked stoked... :smile:


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: theMallacht]
    #11237903 - 10/13/09 05:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Irie,
So came out this morning to find two of the five recently sprouted seedling with their heads cut off and a fat caterpillar resting on one of the stalks.... Bastard!
Found that if the seedlings are over watered their leaves start curling up.
I now only spray surface lightly when dry. They're doing much better.
Respect
Z


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Zaka]
    #11260856 - 10/16/09 03:54 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, they are prey to many insects and animals when small. I keep them indoors by a window until they get bigger. Water them thoroughly when the soil is dry but don't keep the soil damp. I keep plastic wrap over them until the seedcoat drops off. Sorry to hear you lost some, Zaka. Use a thurigensis spray to discourage caterpillars.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #11261353 - 10/16/09 05:14 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I planted 8 and lost them all.  They were outdoors in the shade, with a tiny bit of sun in the afternoon.


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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11264747 - 10/17/09 10:13 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I recommend planting them indoors. They are a little bit delicate and like the extra care. Even after they get bigger and you put them outside, keep an eye on them. They don't like drought but they aren't as sensitive as kratom. They don't like cold either. Caterpillars or grasshoppers can wipe out a bunch of sprouts. When they get bigger the alkaloids discourage a lot of leaf eaters but i do see an occasional chewed leaf before they learn the lesson and move on. Shade or partial sun is best

I lost my entire batch the first time i grew it. Hopefully i can save others from the same fate. Get them up to 8" or 10" indoors and put them outside in a 1 gallon or larger pot. In cold months just keep them near a window inside or under floros.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Stonehenge]
    #11264875 - 10/17/09 10:44 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Irie Stoney,
I got them on the veranda.
Here's the three that are left.

This the biggest one I have. About 8" & starting to branch.

Three E.C.

Respect
Z


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