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LitCloset
hypochondriac



Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 632
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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i like to think im very good with plants. the only problem is all the light i have for all my plants is 6 25w cfl's... so yeah no picture i can post would back up my claim.
I will not remove the seed coats. soaking seeds in straight water hardly ever works for me so Ive gone with, plastic petri dish with a drop of bleach then some towels soaked in water, toss seeds on. then cover up with the second half of the dish. ill put one of the seeds in a petri dish with the peat that they came in. im so worried about contamination.
everyone else who have received their seeds, please post about how things are going.
thanks again.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
#10715720 - 07/21/09 02:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lit, don't worry about contamination or mold. They normally turn dark before sprouting and often get moldy first. Keep the moss damp but not running with water to keep mold down and that will be fine. I would not use bleach. I've only ever used moss or dirt to sprout them but i guess paper towels would work.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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NubeEnLaMontana
Woodchuck Hunter


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 165
Loc: new england
Last seen: 5 months, 21 days
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stonehenge, what pot size/material do you recommend for seedlings? I tend to lean towards terra cotta (for other plants - never grown novo before), since I've made many a plant very unhappy in plastic due to the fact that the soil never seems to dry out. How frequently or at what size do you transplant?
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Zaka
Explorer



Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 665
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Irie, Just wanted to chip in here; I've had a number of the seedlings heads fall off.....Don't panic! The last two have now started to sprouting new growth, from what looks like just a stem....So there is a little hope. But Stoney is there any pre-scarification that could be done? I guess you have a few seeds...maybe you could test some different methods out. Respect Z
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Zaka]
#10728721 - 07/23/09 06:50 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nube, i use small plastic pots but i let them dry out completely before watering. Never water when the soil is still damp.
Zaka, i'm not sure what you mean by seedlings heads falling off. Do you mean before the seedcoat falls? If that happens and all that is left is a stump they always die on me but it's a rare thing. I try to keep a plastic wrap over the seedling until the coat drops off. I think the added humidity aids in some way.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Zaka
Explorer



Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 665
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Irie, I found this problem with a number of species, of Erythroxylum, Tabernanthe, Psychotria. The seed coats do not shed off properly. Yeah most of the time they are stuffed....but manage to get a few to sprout leaves....Photo when they get bigger.. It happens even if kept in high humidity. So what if a sharp blade was used to score the seed? to assist the shed? Personally I don't have seeds enough to play with...Yet! Respect Z
Edited by Zaka (07/24/09 06:20 AM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Zaka]
#10732183 - 07/24/09 10:40 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Scoring the seeds does not seem to help. I have in a few rare cases been able to save a seedling that was having that problem. It's hard, you need steady hands, good light, good eyes and good tec. Even so, i've ruined as many as i saved so i dont recommend it. It has an outer seedcoat and an inner membrane which can also be tricky to remove. The times i was successful i held the seedcoat by the tip and peeled away the coat with fingernails being extra careful not to put any stress on the stem by bending it or pulling on it. After the coat comes off then fine point tweezers can take off the membrane.
If it's progressing normally you don't want to try it. It takes a while to know when it's in trouble. They usually take a few days to go from being up to dropping the coat and some take longer than others. When it looks like they are bowing their head it usually means they are about ready to shed. Psychotria has some problems at times too, Iboga too.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Zaka
Explorer



Registered: 04/12/09
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Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Irie Stoney, Here it's got a couple more leaves. Guess I must have just fluked it? The other one didn't make it! But this is one that lost it's head and was just a nice dark green stem for a couple of weeks. Then 1 small light green growth, followed by another then another.. No more Erythroxylum spp left to play with, but got 5 Iboga to germ next. Respect Z
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Zaka]
#10776303 - 07/31/09 06:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Zaka, congratulations on saving it. What i think may have happened is once in a while the coat starts to come off a little and then gets stuck. Then the leaves inside the coat die and the coat falls. However, if the growing tip has gotten out then it can start growing new leaves even without the cotyledons, or seed leaves. It may look like just a stump but if there is a tiny bit of the growing part it can survive with proper care. I've seen that on other species like p viridis but not yet on e novo. It can be a difference of 1/16" between dying and being able to make it.
Does anyone else have questions on the care of this plant?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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abcd4028
Stranger
Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 1
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: E novogranatense *DELETED* [Re: Stonehenge]
#10789199 - 08/02/09 10:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by abcd4028Reason for deletion: No longer needed
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: abcd4028]
#10793783 - 08/03/09 05:46 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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You want to put all your seeds into damp moss or damp soil right away, don't wait. They can take from a few days to a couple weeks to sprout. They can be kept in the fridge for up to about a month and still sprout but fresh is best. I just happen to have some e novo bushes bearing fruit right now and am open to trades or offers for fresh picked berries. Send me a pm and we'll talk.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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LitCloset
hypochondriac



Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 632
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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well as of today still no germination 
one of the five dried out. one is still in the original moist moss, one i planted and the last two are in petri dish with wet towels.
anyone having better luck than me?
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
#10807115 - 08/05/09 06:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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How did one dry out? You aren't supposed to let them dry out. That can kill them. That one is probably dead and if you let any of the others dry out, they are likely dead too. It's not that hard keeping them moist. It takes from a few days to a few weeks to sprout. After about a month, any that haven't sprouted are probably not going to. In moss, don't make the moss running with water, wring out the excess but keep it good and damp adding a little now and then.
It's a crap shoot, there are no guarantees of how many you will get. It depends in part on how good you take care of them and part is just dumb luck. People have told me they got 4 out of 4, 6 out of 6 and some get none. That's why i offer seedlings if someone wants a sure thing. Even with that, you could end up killing the plant. I killed my first batch because i didn't know how to take care of them. Be patient and in another couple weeks you may be smiling.
Don't put the seedlings in direct sunlight after they come up. Bright indirect light is best. As they get bigger, they can take more sun but not sun all day. I put my outdoor ones in a spot where they get sun late in the day.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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LitCloset
hypochondriac



Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 632
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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yeah the one that dried out was a total mistake. i had it on my desk and my wonderfully stupid cat knocked the petri dish on the ground. found it too late.
ill see how they go over the next 2 weeks. i may end up buying one of those seedlings from you. actually i can almost guarantee i will regardless of success.
just to make it clear to everyone, im not blaming the seller here. it is totally based on chance. don't let my experience stop you from trying it yourself. ive had plenty of seeds never germinate from viable batches.
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Cactusdan
Patecatl



Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 7,024
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
#10808220 - 08/05/09 09:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cat's seem to like to kill ethnos on occasion.
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LitCloset
hypochondriac



Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 632
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: Cactusdan]
#10966632 - 08/30/09 02:33 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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OK so i got a new seedling on Friday! it came wonderfully packed, very healthy, good size etc. after i unpacked it, i gave it a good spray and some verm in the top layer to slowly water it and create a humid micro environment around the plant.
where it was shipped from the humidity is in the 80's, the temp in the high 80's.. here the humidity is about 20 on a good day and the temps 50 at night to about 80 during the day, not to mention I'm at 8000 feet.
so when i got it i gave it a little more soil, watered it and put it in ambient lighting inside where it doesn't get colder than the mid 60's at night. the next day it started looking a little unhappy. the top was drooping more than it was when i got it, the leafs kinda curled. so i freaked out!
i gave it much more humidity, a very little bit of see weed extract to help the stress and i moved it into the grow room (my lit up closet... lame) where there is more light. not much light though, its just enough to keep my salvia growing and my cacti stretch like crazy. my wild dagga hardly has gotten over 4 inches in 5 months... low light - its not too bright. here is what the pathetic little closet looks like right now. someday ill put up shelfs and buy some real lights...

so today i go out to look at it i just don't have the best of luck with this plant! the top part of the stem was still bent over but now its dark where it bends and a little skinny. it looks like the top is going to die and fall off! meanwhile the leafs are a little wilted looking and curly.so along with putting it on a heating pad (very low setting, supposedly they die off below 55F) i also treated the darkening in case some sort of rot etc i used a little tiny bit of garden safe fungicide/pesticide. its organic and really just a plant extract its safe. i also moved it further from the light. Its in the green bottle:

close ups yesterday night:


AND THE BIG UGLY, THE MOST RECENT PICTURE, 1 HOUR OLD:

i have worked my ass off trying to keep this plant healthy and to sprout seeds. like Ive mentioned before i don't have a brown thumb. considering my lighting conditions, where i live and the status of most of my plants i would say that i have a very green one.
what does everybody think is going on? humidity, light, air, elevation, shipping shock... what should i do?
the same thing happened when my poor little salvia came to me in the mail. but it didn't take as long to happen it was almost darkening when i got it. i topped it, removed the bad dark part, rooted the top and kept the bottom healthy. my current mother plant is that plant, it recovered great!
if the top where to fall off/ die / i cut it off if the darkness starts to spread, do you think ill get new growth sprouting from the bottom? I'm guessing not...
help please someone! I'm so worried, this is the second time Ive tried at this plant. its something Ive been wanting for all my gardening life! it is what i consider the ultimate plant that i want to grow
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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 16,545
Loc: Uk / Philippines
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
#10966693 - 08/30/09 02:46 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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there is no point in leaving that dead piece of stem at the tip, may as well cut that off. it will branch from the remaining nodes i assume.
as for the reasons why this is happening i can't shed much light upon it, stoney is the man in the know
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LitCloset
hypochondriac



Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 632
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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i feel like i was just told to chop off my new borns head, and i did it oh well, hopefully it will grow from the base after recovery.... maybe my beans will grow this time around.
dr., how did yours turn out? any germination yet?
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Dr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer


Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 16,545
Loc: Uk / Philippines
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: E novogranatense [Re: LitCloset]
#10967608 - 08/30/09 05:11 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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it won't shoot from the base, it will shoot from the nodes (where the leaves meet the stem) that are remaining below the part that shrivelled up and died... hopefully...
the berries i got spent at least 2 weeks inside a baggie (with moss) inside the envelope they were sent in, because i took an unexpected trip while they were already en route. when i got back the package was waiting for me and all 6 berries had germinated in the baggie, so i just potted them up in a basic soil mix and put them in a humidity chamber. i didnt bury them, just planted them with the berry at soil level. they are a couple of inches tall now but they haven't shed their seed coats yet, apparently the elevated humidity helps with the shedding of the seed coat. i'll get some pic's tomorrow.
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LitCloset
hypochondriac



Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 632
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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cool, i would be very interested in the appearance of these seeds at the mercy of one of the greenest thumbs on this site 
it really is a finicky little plant, much more so than salvia in the hands of a salvia noob. but it can be done, i will not give up until i have a bush!
how long do you plan on keeping the humidity dome on?
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