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OfflinePhluck
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Compromise
    #1066344 - 11/19/02 03:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

How about this:

We hold a referrendum on criminalizing abortion. If you're for making abortion illegal, then you have to register to take care of an abandoned baby. Then if we vote to make abortion illegal, you can be doing something yourself to help all these babies you care about.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Compromise [Re: Phluck]
    #1066483 - 11/19/02 04:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not anti abortion, but here's a better idea. Each time a woman gets an abortion put a tiny tattoo in a particular place. 3 strikes and the tubes are cut. If they are too stupid to use birth control then they are way too stupid to have kids.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Compromise [Re: Phluck]
    #1066545 - 11/19/02 04:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I don't want abortion illegal i just don't want to pay for the procedure or give the parents (for the lack of a better word) any fiscal assistance. It's not me they have to answer to (that's my opinion)


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Compromise [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1066575 - 11/19/02 04:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That seems like the most politically fair way of dealing with it.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (11/19/02 04:52 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Compromise [Re: Evolving]
    #1066641 - 11/19/02 05:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

don't get me wrong but i'm 100% against abortion...but i'm also realistic, sorta


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Compromise [Re: Phluck]
    #1066804 - 11/19/02 05:52 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I like the idea. We can also, under the same logic, have people who are against the death penalty house and feed the murderers.

Kewl!


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Compromise [Re: ]
    #1066828 - 11/19/02 05:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Heh.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Compromise [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1066981 - 11/19/02 06:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Notice that I stated 'politically fair' and made no mention of moral implications.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: Compromise [Re: Evolving]
    #1067279 - 11/19/02 08:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Oh Jesus, I agree with Invertigo. Abortion is terrible, they stick this fucking thing through the fetus' skull and scramble the brains. I think it should be legal up to a month or two and that is it, after that its to highly developed and is no longer a clump of cells. Rape and Incest victims should always have the option.


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: Compromise [Re: Phluck]
    #1067286 - 11/19/02 08:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Or maybe if abortion is illegal, the conservatives could then concentrate on caring about people after they are born! It seems the pro-lifers and conservatives protect you, but only when you are inside a woman, after that you are fucked.


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OfflineFred Garvin
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Re: Compromise [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1067490 - 11/19/02 10:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That's a great idea LDS. I don't believe abortion should be illegal, but it shouldn't be allowed to be used as a casual form of birth control.



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The above statements are just the incoherent babblings of your friendly neighborhood Cracker!

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Compromise [Re: ]
    #1067880 - 11/19/02 11:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

How about we just kill every prisoner, 'cause it's cheaper?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Compromise [Re: Phluck]
    #1068819 - 11/20/02 06:01 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

How about we just kill every prisoner, 'cause it's cheaper?



Maybe just the violent ones.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Compromise [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1068898 - 11/20/02 07:06 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

maybe in the public square would be a nice change of pace. :grin:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Compromise [Re: Phluck]
    #1069273 - 11/20/02 11:44 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I am pro-choice. Not because I support a "woman's right to choose". Abortion is
killing a baby. Plain and simple. Why then do I support killing defenseless
unborn babies?

Two reasons: To spare them from a life of misery, and to spare us living people
the burden of their existence.

Of all of the pregnancies in this country, a large percentage are unplanned. Of
these unplanned pregnancies, a large percentage are unwanted. What happens when a child is born into a situation where he or she is unwanted and not given the proper attention, guidance, and love? They turn into scumbags who oftentimes have no respect for anybody. They make our lives more difficult by committing crimes which affect our bodies and properties. They are a drain in every conceivable manner upon society. Abortion is a cost-effective "pre-emptive strike" against these potential people.

The human race's impact on the planet is increasing. As our population expands we will experience more pollution, resource shortages, and crowding. There are too many people on this planet.

I think there should be an abortion clinic in every town. Abortions should be
free. These clinics should also offer free sterilizations too anybody eighteen and
older who wants to have one. In fact, maybe people should be paid to get sterilized.


Randalflagg


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Compromise [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1069543 - 11/20/02 01:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"'Post-abortion stress syndrome' ? PASS or PAS ? sounds scientific, but don't be fooled ? it's a made-up term. Not recognized as an official syndrome or diagnosis by the American Psychiatric Association , the American Psychological Association, or any other mainstream authority, it is a bogus affliction invented by the religious right. Those who claim its existence define it loosely as a raft of emotional problems that they say women suffer after having an abortion ? nightmares, feelings of guilt, even suicidal tendencies ? and compare it to post-traumatic stress disorder. "

"Of course, the overwhelming scientific evidence shows that abortion does not hurt women ? physically or mentally. In the late 1980s, President Reagan tried a strategy similar to Reardon's and asked his like-minded surgeon general, C. Everett Koop, to conduct a study on the mental pain caused by abortion. To everyone's surprise, Koop determined that there was insufficient evidence of trauma. Psychological problems were "minuscule from a public health perspective," he said. The American Psychological Association followed up by asking a group of six experts to undertake a special review. The panel concluded in 1989 that terminating an unwanted pregnancy posed no hazard to women's mental health. The predominant sensation women felt following an abortion was relief, the group said."

"And in August 2000, a study conducted by Brenda Major at the University of California at Santa Barbara ? the latest among many ? confirmed those findings. Severe post-abortion psychological distress is extremely rare, affecting just one percent of patients. "Most women were satisfied with their decision, and believed that they had benefited more than they had been harmed," said Major, who, along with other researchers, tracked women for two years after they had first-trimester abortions (88 percent of abortions are performed in the first trimester, and therefore represent the typical experience). The best predictor of post-abortion mental health, it turns out, is a woman's mental health prior to the abortion. "

Excerpts from an article by Cynthia L. Cooper.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Compromise [Re: Phluck]
    #1069841 - 11/20/02 02:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"How about we just kill every prisoner, 'cause it's cheaper?"

I like the idea. We can also, under the same logic, kill all the babies.

Kewl!

And by the way, Ms. Cooper has no idea what she's talking about. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, or hadn't you heard?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Compromise [Re: ]
    #1071471 - 11/20/02 09:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"We can also, under the same logic, kill all the babies."

I was trying to point out why this particular debate technique was retarded. Then you went and used it again. Congradulations.

"Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, or hadn't you heard?"

Where does this play in? The points raised are pretty straight forward facts.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Compromise [Re: Phluck]
    #1071527 - 11/20/02 10:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I was just playing along. :smile:

The appeal to authority is made in Connor's argument when she says that various organizations that are considered 'experts' in the field have determined that PAS is not real or that's its effects are minimal.

I am not sure that you are aware of it or not but in the 50's every psychological authority then said that homosexuality was mental illness as well.  Did that mean it was true?  Or does it mean that they are correct now when they say it is not a psychological disorder?

This is one subject that I know quite a bit about and I can assure you that not only is PAS real, its effects are insidious.  One of the hallmarks of PAS is that it often does not evidence itself until many years have passed, sometimes as many as 20 years can go by before the women crumbles under the guilt and shame of knowing that she killed her baby. 

Conner and the 'experts' are correct that many women experience mild relief up to euphoria from 'getting rid of the problem'.  What they do not realize is that many years down the road these same women suffer unbelievable anguish over their 'choice' to end the life of their child.

The abortion industry is about money, and men.  Men are the ones who made the Roe v Wade decision, men are the ones who profit the most financially, and men are the ones who distort the facts and figures that shroud this multi-billion dollar industry. 

I watched every women I have known that had PAS have her life destroyed starting with my mother.  After that I did some pretty intensive research on abortion and came to the conclusion that it is wrong.

Abortion kills a living human being.  That is inarguable and incontrovertible.

Cheers, 


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Compromise [Re: ]
    #1071557 - 11/20/02 10:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"I am not sure that you are aware of it or not but in the 50's every psychological authority then said that homosexuality was mental illness as well. Did that mean it was true? Or does it mean that they are correct now when they say it is not a psychological disorder?"

There isn't a correct or incorrect here. It's an illness if it is damaging. If someone believes that homosexuality is morally wrong, then yes, it's an illness, if they don't, then no, of course it's not an illness.

I've got more to add, but something just came up. I'll finish posting later.

I think PAS is created by the anti-abortion movement in another way as well. Nobody goes 20 years without feeling remorse for something before suddenly changing position. Guilt doesn't lay dormant and then suddenly surface. What most likely occurred was a change of opinion.

Being verbally assaulted by anti-abortion protestors is hardly that pleasant either. I'm sure that helps create a feeling of guilt. Having all kinds of anti-abortion propaganda thrown at you can help to change your opinion, of course.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Phluck (11/20/02 11:31 PM)


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