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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10689625 - 07/16/09 06:25 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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RJ Tubs 202 said:
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hyphae said:
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RJ Tubs 202 said:
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Olgualion said: I have never done it, but from me experience with casing layers it seems counter-intuitive.
There are pinsets and there are Pinsets! A good pinset is a very subjective term. With a properly cared for casing you should get a Wall-to-Wall first flush of mushrooms!
In my mind, I see a bunch of fruiting coming from the sides of your trays (especially 2nd and later flushes). You may get a good number of mushrooms that come from your casing, but these were all going to grow whether you added the casing layer or not since they were already forming/ growing. It is possible that your added casing helps this first flush to get a bit bigger because of the water that the mushy's can get from it. All it will do is help your first flush not run out of water. But it adds a potential contam vector, it adds a bunch on casing on top of mycelium that may not fruit at its potential because of lack of light/ air. Which is why I said you'd probably end up with more side pinning/fruiting post first flush.
It just doesn't make sense to me because I have a different understanding of just what a casing is for.
Yeah, I get your points, some good ones. Thanks.
But over-pinning can be a big problem also, at least it has been for me. I do not want wall to wall pins, because I get better yields with lower pin sets. Side pinning has not been an issue with the case and place method.
If I give my casing run 48-72 hours in closed container high CO2 conditions, my casing is fully colonized by the time pins form.
If I "case and place", my substrate pins when the mycellium is half way thu the casing layer, thus allowing me to "water" the babies to maturity - the uncolonized casing is available to receive water.
I'm not totally sure what is going on, but I think it deserves additonal attention.
So far, I find "late casing" to be superior to "case and place".
In my book wall to wall pins are great as long as they don't flush all at once. 2-3 flushes provide wall to wall mature fruits 2-3 times maybe 4!
Every time I get wall to wall pins, only 30-60% mature, so I have found that I get better yields with lower pinsets (with higher percentages maturing).
Is there a method for not letting wall to wall pins flush all at once?
I always frown when I get super heavy pin sets.
30-60% translates into 3-4 good flushes thats about perfect whats the complaint? As far as keeping them all from flushing at once that doesn't happen all that often but keeping things less than perfect can certainly help.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,123
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 days, 22 hours
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: hyphae]
#10689698 - 07/16/09 06:42 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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30-60% translates into 3-4 good flushes thats about perfect whats the complaint?
30-60% of pins maturing means 40-70% not. I'd rather get 80-90% of (fewer) pins to maturity. Even if it means lower yields. For me it's the principle of the thing more than about efficiency.
Likely a product of my OCD . . .
:-)
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10689760 - 07/16/09 06:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: 30-60% translates into 3-4 good flushes thats about perfect whats the complaint?
30-60% of pins maturing means 40-70% not. I'd rather get 80-90% of (fewer) pins to maturity. Even if it means lower yields. For me it's the principle of the thing more than about efficiency.
Likely a product of my OCD . . .
:-)
FYI your initial pinset provides the pins for your first 2-3 flushes you understand this right?
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,123
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 days, 22 hours
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: hyphae]
#10689839 - 07/16/09 07:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: 30-60% translates into 3-4 good flushes thats about perfect whats the complaint?
30-60% of pins maturing means 40-70% not. I'd rather get 80-90% of (fewer) pins to maturity. Even if it means lower yields. For me it's the principle of the thing more than about efficiency.
Likely a product of my OCD . . .
:-)
FYI your initial pinset provides the pins for your first 2-3 flushes you understand this right?
Yes. I guess what I try to avoid is a mass of pins on the surface of the casing that don't mature.
I'm confused about when pins develop on the casing surface initially, but later on some pins develop from deep in the casing, and sometimes others come from deeper, near the substrate/casing interface.
Were all of these pins created at once?
Am I mis-managing my casing run and/or my pinning strategy?
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10689931 - 07/16/09 07:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your initial pinset is created on the surface for the most part these are the pins for at least two flushes but usually 3-4 depending on how many fruits mature and how many mature at once. During the first few flushes the myc is still producing primordia for later flushes provided moisture content is right. Understand during the fruiting stage FAE is increased considerably so pins develop a bit deeper where co2 is higher. Your second flush pins will not bolt until the last of the prior flush have been picked then the myc will digest more of the substrate and build it's energy to bolt the subsequent flush this can take a matter of hours or days depending on the prior flushes nutrient demands placed upon the substrate.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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term
beginner-ish
Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 10
Last seen: 7 months, 20 days
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: hyphae]
#10690542 - 07/16/09 08:52 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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so does that mean if conditions weren't good for a couple trays i have and there weren't many pins should i bother letting them go to multiple flushes? as not many pins means not many shrooms per flush
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: term]
#10690585 - 07/16/09 09:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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If the nutes are there then let them go pick all you can mist it down to near saturation then wait or set it aside and forget about those two for awhile.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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socks
wear socks pls
Registered: 06/23/15
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Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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