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OfflineFreedomForAll
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How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive?
    #10657386 - 07/11/09 10:45 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

If you re install the OS and thus wipe the drive, is there any way the police/fbi can see the contents of your ex-hard drive?

I was told before yes...

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OfflineDenisius
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: FreedomForAll]
    #10657630 - 07/11/09 11:43 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, they have certain methods of recovering that information, even if only partially.

What you should do, is encrypt the whole hard-disk. If you use the best encryption methods to do that, it will be nearly impossible for the FBI to view the information in the hard-disk, without a password.

You should use TrueCrypt, some of their encryption methods are used by the government to encrypt highly classified information.

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Invisibledanielx
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: Denisius]
    #10658991 - 07/11/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

just reformating it wont cover much up, you need a program to wipe it clean.

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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: danielx]
    #10659604 - 07/11/09 05:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Just break it if you are really worried, the Navy used to do a 4 part system, magnet pass, then break the hard drive in two pieces, magnet pass again then throw them out at different times.


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Offlinebigboi86
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #10659721 - 07/11/09 06:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

There are programs that write/rewrite over the HDD in different patterns making it impossible to recover data.

Simply reformatting leaves magnetic remnants of data that they can piece back together.

If you overwrite it several times using different patterns you will completely destroy ANY data on a HDD. This is called hdd "Nuking".

http://www.dban.org/

This is a free application that you can use.

Here is a good episode of a pretty decent show that gives some more insight on the subject.



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Invisibledanielx
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: bigboi86]
    #10659940 - 07/11/09 07:14 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

it doesn't make it impossible, but makes it very hard and very unlikely anyone will ever recover your data.

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Offlinebigboi86
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: danielx]
    #10660033 - 07/11/09 07:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

danielx said:
it doesn't make it impossible, but makes it very hard and very unlikely anyone will ever recover your data.




If you nuke a hard drive properly it will be impossible to recover the data.

Think about it. Data on an HDD is just magnetic prints on a piece of metal lined a particular way. You can completely fuck each sector and track of the HDD by overwriting those magnetic imprints over and over in different patterns.

Not even the best technology can't read magnetic imprints that are no longer there.

HDD's are simple as fuck dude. It's metal disks with magnetic imprints on it, works much like a tape does, except a tape uses magnetic tape instead of magnetic disks. Same exact concept though.

It is possible to completely destroy data.

Google it.


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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: bigboi86]
    #10660060 - 07/11/09 07:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In *nix systems it is possible to write over the install with 0/1 an unlimited number of times to over-write data permanently.


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OfflineWunbadmofo
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #10660627 - 07/11/09 09:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You want to get a disk wiping tool that wipes to the d.o.d. specs, or uses the guttmen algorithm.

Also when u install windows it doesnt automatically wipe the drive, it just installs windows and tells the master file table that the disk is ready to be written to. You have to specifically choose the option to format your drive. However simply writing over it all with 0's once is not sufficient, and that is all a format does.


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InvisiblePsychoReactive
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: Wunbadmofo]
    #10660813 - 07/11/09 10:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

What about USB flash drives? Like the SanDisk 16 GIG micro cruzer...

You can also run programs on them.

Can anyeone recover stuff from them because its flash memory? And if you surf Mozilla via the USB stick, they cant pick it up via the host PC... right?

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: Denisius]
    #10660905 - 07/11/09 10:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If you re install the OS and thus wipe the drive, is there any way the police/fbi can see the contents of your ex-hard drive?




That depends on if you really overwrite the drive.  If you actually write over all the bits, then there is no way that they will recover it.  Reformatting doesn't do that, it just overwrites the indexes, not the data.  Reinstalling will overwrite some of the data, but the OS is small compared to the size of the drive so most of the data will remain.

Quote:

One of the most tenacious myths in the tech world has involved how to delete the data off your hard drive. First off, it's common knowledge that putting a file in the Recycle Bin and emptying the trash does nothing to actually delete the file, you have to overwrite the space where the file once was with something else. But with what?




The unix tool srm is just like the standard remove utility, rm, but it overwrites the data too.  Windows has similar tools.

Quote:

What you should do, is encrypt the whole hard-disk. If you use the best encryption methods to do that, it will be nearly impossible for the FBI to view the information in the hard-disk, without a password.




Very true.

Quote:

Just break it if you are really worried, the Navy used to do a 4 part system, magnet pass, then break the hard drive in two pieces, magnet pass again then throw them out at different times.




That is not necessary.  It is enough to overwrite all the bits on the drive with 0's or files or random data.

On unix the best way to do it is:

# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdc (replace hdc with the actual device you want to wipe.

Works well with hard drives, memory cards, etc.

Here is a relevant news story from 1/20/2009:

Wiping your hard drive? One pass will do it

Paranoid techies will tell you a drive or file has to be overwritten numerous times with random data in order to "securely" delete it. Some say seven times. I've even heard 13 and a whopping 35 times -- just to be sure, they say. (The real nuts don't mess with software and instead tell you to drill holes in the drive to kill it for good... which is awfully wasteful if you ask me.)

But is all that rewriting (which can take days to complete) really necessary? A few years ago I sent a hard drive that had been overwritten with a single pass of zeroes to a high-end professional data recovery firm and they declared all the data on the drive completely unsalvageable, and that's the advice I've given to users ever since: A single overwrite will ensure your personal files are gone for good.

And now I have independent, scientific confirmation: Forensic scientist Craig Wright overwrote drives once under controlled conditions and examined the drive surface with a magnetic-force microscope to see if any traces of data were recoverable. In a nutshell: Nope. If you know exactly on a drive where a byte once existed, the probability of recovering that byte in full is less than 1 percent. And of course, that byte corresponds to a single character of a single file. The odds of recovering even, say, a 10-character string would be infinitesimally small (less than 7.4*10^-21 percent, if you must know)... and even then you'd have to know in advance exactly where to look for the characters in question.

As the linked story notes: Rather than waste time worrying about deleting a file 30 times, you are better off making sure you delete and overwrite all the copies of a file on the hard drive. In Windows, that means regularly deleting temporary files and overwriting free space with zeroes. Of course, if you're wiping an entire hard drive from start to finish, you needn't worry about deleting individual files at all: One overwrite with zeroes will take care of everything.

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OfflineFreedomForAll
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #10661231 - 07/12/09 12:24 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks a ton for your help guys. :smile:

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OfflineSmokey186
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: FreedomForAll]
    #10667387 - 07/13/09 03:54 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

They could always use an electron microscope to look at the remains of your drive. Although they almost never would, costs too much and takes months.


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Offlinehazmat1
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: Smokey186]
    #10670407 - 07/13/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Darn, bigboi beat me to it. DBAN your hard drive and you should be good.

I know one of my friends had a setup where he had thermite above his harddrives, just so in case the FBI knocked on his door he would be safe. :thumbup:

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InvisiblePsychoReactive
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: hazmat1]
    #10670657 - 07/13/09 05:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Ok without any BS l33t IT talk, can someone tell me how to apply this to a Windows XP machine?

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Offlinebigboi86
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: PsychoReactive]
    #10670874 - 07/13/09 06:10 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Nuking a HDD involves deleting everything on it, which includes all your files and even Windows XP.

If you have nothing to worry about, then just clean your cookies and temporary internet files and shit.

If you are about to be busted Dban your HDD.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dban

BTW, that's not a very cool way to ask a question.


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Edited by bigboi86 (07/13/09 06:11 PM)

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InvisiblePsychoReactive
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: bigboi86]
    #10671171 - 07/13/09 07:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

What about if you had files that you got rid of on your hard drive that you did not want anyone to find... you do not want to erase the hard drive but make the traces of those files dissapear, how do you do that without formating your PC?

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InvisiblePsychoReactive
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: bigboi86]
    #10671196 - 07/13/09 07:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bigboi86 said:
Nuking a HDD involves deleting everything on it, which includes all your files and even Windows XP.

If you have nothing to worry about, then just clean your cookies and temporary internet files and shit.

If you are about to be busted Dban your HDD.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dban

BTW, that's not a very cool way to ask a question.




Thanks but do you realise how people get raided by FBI and the cops? They dont have the time to go back home and clean their shit up and delete their crap on the PC.

When you get busted, you get detained at a cop station and the cops get a warrant then take your PC away from your house without you being able to do squat about it. So no time for nuking or formating or any other crap.

So what I am asking if how do you hide your secret files on your PC if you had them on there once? Or do you just nuke the hard drive, do a fresh reinstall of the OS and then make sure never to have any dodgy shit on your PC?

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Offlinebigboi86
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: PsychoReactive]
    #10671728 - 07/13/09 08:50 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psycho4ctive said:
So what I am asking if how do you hide your secret files on your PC if you had them on there once? Or do you just nuke the hard drive, do a fresh reinstall of the OS and then make sure never to have any dodgy shit on your PC?




That is your best option, yes.

However, I do believe I've seen applications that just overwrites just the "free" space on your HDD.

After a quick google, I came across this.

That should work for you. It's not as guaranteed as a full nuke though.

Quote:

www.fileshredder.org said:
In order to remove, or shred files permanently from your system you have to use a program that is capable of rewriting the files with random series of binary data multiple times. This process is often called shredding. That way, the actual content of the file has been overwritten and the possibilities to recover such a shredded file are mostly theoretical.




Which is exactly what we've been saying.


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Edited by bigboi86 (07/13/09 08:53 PM)

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InvisiblePsychoReactive
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Re: How much exactly can the FBI trace on your hard drive? [Re: bigboi86]
    #10672044 - 07/13/09 09:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

cheers for that! :smile:

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