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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: hamloaf] * 1
    #21400960 - 03/13/15 05:42 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

THE_LOAF said:
Awesome! 
Everything I wanted to know and more.
Gonna try another grain slurry to bulk.
This time, I'll mix the slurry into the sub.

Couple of questions;
1.  What is the water to grain spawn ratio for a good grain slurry?
2.  What is the grain slurry to sub ratio that you use?
Thanks.




i use 2:1 grain to water on the grain slurries to bulk. which i slurried 2 quarts on my first trial below to 9 quarts volume substrate.

Quote:

THAI LIPA YAI: WBS 2 QUART GRAIN SLURRY TRIAL #1:
UNCASED SUBSTRATE
                                 
THAI LIPA YAI (TESTED CLONE UNCASED):   
                                         
TUB 1 YIELD: TOTAL 450g 17.9 oz
1st: 240 grams 8.5 oz
2nd: 70 grams 2.5oz
3rd: 59g 2oz
4th: 81g 2.9oz



                   
Substrate Ratio Per Tub:

1:4.5 Ratio Spawn:substrate
  • 2 Quarts of WBS grain slurry spawn
  • 9 Quarts Volume: 3/4 Brick Coir/ 1 Quarts Verm/ 1 cups gypsum
  • 1.5" Sub Depth

TUB 1 YIELD: TOTAL 128 g 4.5 oz
1st: 73g
2nd: 32g
3rd: 23g


13 days from spawn to harvest
]

2nd Flush:



3rd Flush:

FULL PROCEDURE:
GRAIN WAS PREPPED USING FOOMAN'S GRAIN TEK IN 2 HOURS
MADE 40 QUARTS WBS GRAIN JARS FROM 1 PF JAR SLURRY (THAI CLONE FOR A TEST RUN BELOW)

MIXED UP 1 SMALL BRICKS COIR, 2 QUARTS VERM, 1 CUP GYPSUM, 5 QUARTS WATER.  EXPANDED THE COIR WITH HOT WATER


DUMPED IN THE DRY VERM AND MIXED IT ALL UP WITH THE COIR. THEN POURED THE GYPSUM THAT WAS MIXED IN WITH 4 CUPS OF THE WARM WATER ON TOP OF THE VERM COIR MIX. THEN MIXED IT ALL UP.


PUT IT IN TURKEY TINS IN THE OVEN FOR 2.5 HOURS. INNER CORE TEMP WAS BROUGHT TO 170 THEN SET FOR 2 HOURS AT THAT TEMP.


ONCE COOL, FLIPPED THE TURKEY TIN UPSIDE DOWN IN MY PRE LINED TUB.
I TOOK A WIDE MOUTH QUART JAR THAT I RETROFITTED A BLADE ASSEMBLY TO THE LID. I PRESSURE COOKED 3/4 QUART OF WATER AND THE BLADE ASSEMBLY. ONCE COOL, I USED A SHMUVBOX FOR CLEAN WORK AND TOOK THE LID OFF 1 COLONIZED QUART. I POURED HALF OF THE 3/4TH QUART OF WATER INTO THAT COLONIZED QUART AND QUICKLY PUT THE METAL BLADE ON IT. I THEN USED A DRILL BIT ON THE END OF THE BLENDER TO BLEND UP THE JAR. I THEN DID THE SAME THING ON THE 2ND COLONIZED QUART OF GRAIN. I POURED THE REST OF THE WATER INTO THE 2ND QUART, THEN PUT THE SAME LID ON THE 2ND QUART JAR. THEN BLENDED IT WITH THE DRILL BIT. I POURED IT ALL INTO THE SUBSTRATE AND MIXED IT IN THOROUGHLY WITH THE PASTEURIZED SUBSTRATE WITH GLOVES ON.(I DIDN'T TAKE PICS SO IM SUBSTITUTING SOME I HAVE THAT ILLUSTRATE THIS)

BLEND WASN'T QUITE THIS SOUPY BUT DID LOOK SOMEWHAT LIKE THIS.


THE QUART LID IS LIKE THIS.




NOTES:
Dry yield wasn't anything special just normal. 73 grams. the substrate depth was only about 1.5" thick with no casing. 13 days from spawn to harvest. 23 days from clone to fruit. lighting speed! dunked for a 2nd flush. I plan on attempting this with a 5 tub uncased and 5 tub cased test next to get a wider range of results. The speed goal was met, yield was fair and the grow was extremely easy. I need to do some grow room tweaks to get it dialed in properly. But other than that I plan to try this same 2 Quart slurry with a 3" sub depth and cased tubs. This was an extremely fun experiment. I plan to take it to the next level in the next few months. I'm fairly confident this is repeatable and will get past 3 flushes. I am also confident that the contam ratio won't be any different than any other method I have used. I'd put my money on it. The only obstervation that I believe would cause an issue is if you use larger size grain like Rye berry or Oats. The size of the inner uncolonized grain ends up being too much exposure for contams to set in unless you don't blend the grain as much. The smaller millet or wbs grain doesn't quite get pulverized as much so the grain itself isn't as exposed. In addition, I believe that the drill bit blender wasn't as powerful as my oster is. So it did not break up the grain as much as it would have had I used the oster blender. I think using the hand drill on the oster wide mouth blade attachment is ideal for this method.








on my 2nd try i only slurried 1 quart and spawned 4 quarts regularly and had good results.
Quote:


THAI LIPA YAI: WBS 1 QUART GRAIN SLURRY/ 4 QUART REGULAR SPAWN TRIAL #2:
CASED SUBSTRATE
                                 
Substrate Ratio Per Tub:2 Tubs Tested

1:2 Ratio Spawn:substrate
  • 4 Quarts of WBS grain/ 1 Quart slurry spawn
  • 10 Quarts Volume: 1 Brick Coir/ 1 Quarts Verm/ 1 cup strawnet/ 1 cup gypsum/ 1/4 cup supercake formula
  • 3" Sub Depth
  • 5 Quarts Water





log

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21255601#21255601


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Invisiblegrainbrain
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: eatyualive]
    #21403420 - 03/13/15 06:31 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

24 hours after PF slurry, every speck of transferred vermiculite is showing growth.  My jars with more of the "mud" are ahead of the jars that got a more GLC liquid with less particulates.

Next time, I'm going to cut down the ratio of water to cake slightly, and use the actual blender base instead of a corded drill for better consistency.

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Offlinetourrat
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: grainbrain]
    #21403449 - 03/13/15 06:42 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I'm out of town but I'm anxious to see results tomorrow when I get home.my slurry may have been a little on the muddy side..1.5 to 1.and I used blender so it was broke up good. I'm excited about the possibilities this opens up.


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: grainbrain]
    #21403720 - 03/13/15 08:06 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

grainbrain said:
24 hours after PF slurry, every speck of transferred vermiculite is showing growth.  My jars with more of the "mud" are ahead of the jars that got a more GLC liquid with less particulates.

Next time, I'm going to cut down the ratio of water to cake slightly, and use the actual blender base instead of a corded drill for better consistency.



yeah i just did some extremely muddy ape slurry! 32 quarts and i poured the last 1/4 volume left into the last 5 quarts. hopefully they do well.

you will even see that the slurry may grow on the sides of the jar.


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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: eatyualive]
    #21403792 - 03/13/15 08:26 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I saw I had big spot on the jars of brf lol....I used a ridiculous amount of slurry per jar . Things are gonna rage . I'm expecting mass of growth in the sides of the jars.


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Invisiblegrainbrain
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: tourrat]
    #21407999 - 03/14/15 04:54 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

48 hours in, the "mud" jars are really kicking ass and should be done in another 2 days.  The jars that got more liquid than mud are going to take a few extra days, just as one would expect with a GLC. 

Some of these jars received an estimated 10-15cc's, others got about 6-8cc's.  Everybody got well shaken, and no moisture issues so far.

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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: grainbrain]
    #21414619 - 03/16/15 05:36 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

At 72 hours, the muddy jars are showing near full colonization, just going to give them one more day to thicken up.  That's 4 days from slurry to spawning, not bad at all.

The jars that got more of the GLC-ish liquid are coming along also.  Those guys will probably be in the 7-9 day range when ready to spawn.

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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: grainbrain]
    #21416187 - 03/16/15 02:11 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

got any pics?
yeah they were about 7-9 days for the glc for me as well.


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Offlinebluelou
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: eatyualive]
    #21416268 - 03/16/15 02:35 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Cool tek eats!

Dont have the cap that you have to use?
Blade thing ya did..very nice work,looks easy
if i can build that.

Question,can i just use a blender,that i pour
boiling water in to clean an then blend cakes??

Slurry sounds like a great expantion of growth,
just like ya said man...

THANX,from Lou yur old friend,still kickin haha..
:smile:


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Have you tried my(black kow) pile style tek outdoors!!!!!!!!

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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: bluelou]
    #21416281 - 03/16/15 02:39 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

if you get an oster blender, you can pressure cook the metal base. you don't pressure cook the black attachment it will melt. good to see you lou.


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Invisiblegrainbrain
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: eatyualive]
    #21416633 - 03/16/15 04:04 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
got any pics?
yeah they were about 7-9 days for the glc for me as well.





I've been taking pics along the way, but have to buy a new desktop PC before I can edit & upload.  I'll do a retroactive grow log at that point.

Spawning two monos tomorrow.  Really impressed with the speed of this.

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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: grainbrain]
    #21416949 - 03/16/15 05:14 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

congrats. im glad its working for you. when i first tried it i thought the same thing. it impressed me so much. i felt everything else was in slow motion. if you combine the slurried spawn prep with faht's old substrate as casing layer method it fruits in 12-13 days from spawning. its extremely fast.


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OfflineMr. Penguin
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: eatyualive]
    #21419626 - 03/17/15 08:47 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

.

Edited by Mr. Penguin (03/17/15 02:27 PM)

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Offlinecoffeehead
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: eatyualive]
    #21420256 - 03/17/15 12:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

This thread has given me an idea I'd like to run past you. I'll explain my reasoning and my idea - please comment on whether you think the idea is viable.

1) R Rabbit's video states that when doing a traditional grain to bulk sub inoculation (crumble colonized grain to marble size & mix with bulk sub) a sterile environment isn't necessary because grain is already dominated by mycelium. (I know the sub needs to be pasteurized)

2) I've also had better results soaking the crumbled colonized grain in cold water for 10 minutes before inoculating the bulk sub with it.

So I'm wondering - can I just slurry a jar of colonized grain with cold water (after a 10 minute soak) and add that to my bulk sub?

I imagine there would be an increased possibility of contamination with my proposed procedure because the un-colonized interior of the grains would be exposed. On the flip side, however, from your work it sounds like the mycelium beats the contaminants at colonizing any un-colonized grain interior exposed by creating the slurry.

I'm going to inoculate some bulk wood chips with azurescens grown on rye in preparation for an outdoor bed. I want to inoculate the outdoor beds with colonized wood because any grain outdoors will attract every rodent in the neighborhood. Azurescens spawn is notoriously slow to colonize and I want to get my bulk sub inoculated and the grain gone in a hurry because I want to go outdoors as soon as possible.

I'm planning on turning a quart of azurescens on rye into a slurry and inoculating wood with it. I don't know if you're familiar with azurescens, but they are pretty resistant to contamination once on wood. That's why I'm not overly concerned about sterility.

The final question I have is what would be a good slurry:wood ratio. I plan on starting with 1 qt. slurry to 4 qt. wood. Any ideas on what a proper ratio would be?

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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: coffeehead]
    #21420412 - 03/17/15 01:06 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

He's done a slurry to bulk. Check out the top of this page, 14 or so posts before yours he covers it again.

Edited by Grey (03/17/15 01:16 PM)

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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: Grey]
    #21421177 - 03/17/15 03:10 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grey said:
He's done a slurry to bulk. Check out the top of this page, 14 or so posts before yours he covers it again.




Rye is different than PF cakes and wood is different than coir and verm. If you haven't grown wood lovers you haven't a clue. I'm seeking rye and wood specific advice, if available. I can only guess about how to translate PF/poo tek to work with grain and azures.

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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: coffeehead]
    #21429704 - 03/19/15 05:23 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

coffeehead said:
This thread has given me an idea I'd like to run past you. I'll explain my reasoning and my idea - please comment on whether you think the idea is viable.

1) R Rabbit's video states that when doing a traditional grain to bulk sub inoculation (crumble colonized grain to marble size & mix with bulk sub) a sterile environment isn't necessary because grain is already dominated by mycelium. (I know the sub needs to be pasteurized)

2) I've also had better results soaking the crumbled colonized grain in cold water for 10 minutes before inoculating the bulk sub with it.

So I'm wondering - can I just slurry a jar of colonized grain with cold water (after a 10 minute soak) and add that to my bulk sub?

I imagine there would be an increased possibility of contamination with my proposed procedure because the un-colonized interior of the grains would be exposed. On the flip side, however, from your work it sounds like the mycelium beats the contaminants at colonizing any un-colonized grain interior exposed by creating the slurry.

I'm going to inoculate some bulk wood chips with azurescens grown on rye in preparation for an outdoor bed. I want to inoculate the outdoor beds with colonized wood because any grain outdoors will attract every rodent in the neighborhood. Azurescens spawn is notoriously slow to colonize and I want to get my bulk sub inoculated and the grain gone in a hurry because I want to go outdoors as soon as possible.

I'm planning on turning a quart of azurescens on rye into a slurry and inoculating wood with it. I don't know if you're familiar with azurescens, but they are pretty resistant to contamination once on wood. That's why I'm not overly concerned about sterility.

The final question I have is what would be a good slurry:wood ratio. I plan on starting with 1 qt. slurry to 4 qt. wood. Any ideas on what a proper ratio would be?




yes you could. i generally pressure cook my water for 20-30 minutes at 15psi. let it cool then do it. but i spawn open air and ive slurried to bulk open air.

have you seen waylitjims woodlovers tek where he uses cardboard as a starter under the wood chips if not look him up. he would use liquid cultures in baby bottles, inoculate pf cakes. then crumble those into a wood chip/cardboard bed. ive never worked with woodlovers so i can't say that it would work the way it does with cubes on wood chips. on grain if you were to slurry the mycelia it should work the same to expand the grain spawn. the wouod chips would likely soak up more of the extra water. but the soaked cardboard starter is a pretty damn effective way to get woodlovers going.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20722722

here is how he starts on cardboard.

https://mycotopia.net/topic/10799-waylits-wood-lover-tek/?p=175865


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Edited by eatyualive (03/19/15 05:35 AM)

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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: eatyualive]
    #21433144 - 03/19/15 07:51 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

this is what it looks like when you don't shake your inoculated slurry jar long enough after inoculation. you can see the uneven growth and some of it settled to the bottom. i ended up shaking this jar because i was kind of lazy the other day when i was making the quarts. all looks good just slower speed due to cultivator error.



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Edited by eatyualive (03/19/15 07:52 PM)

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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: eatyualive]
    #21435404 - 03/20/15 11:13 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Preview of cakes intended for slurry making.
Only going to use one cake to generate slurry.
Some will be fruited as cakes.
Others will be crumbled, and spawned to bulk.



The cakes used wheat bran instead of BRF.
They are at about 95% colonization.
They are incubating at around 60F.
Projected to reach full colonization in 5-7 days.


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Invisiblegrainbrain
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Re: Slurry Spawn or Liquid Inoculant [Re: hamloaf]
    #21435493 - 03/20/15 11:49 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Nice.  I use a similar setup on the 1/4 pints with only a SFD in the lid.  Open in front of the flowhood to inoculate, no need for the dry verm barrier.

Spawned monotub #4 today and have three jars left to spawn a mini-mono.  Just waiting for one jar that got too little of the slurry to catch up.

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