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 eatyualive
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Registered: 08/17/01
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Quote:
legallyhomeless said:
I think you might run into the problem of having too many pf tek jars inoculated to make 1 slurry when you could just do 1 and make a slurry to inoc several WBS jars. Which is what the original tek is. Ill still be watching 
im thinking like this. any newb who has pf jars. can do bulk now instead of just pf jars. seems to be grain is one of the hardest things to grasp when your new at working with the fungi. anyone can mix up some subs with water. put it in a turkey tin. then cook it at 170 for 2.5 hours. then just slurry up the substrate in a tub. and mostly anyone can make pf jars. this is really a tek that i think is great for beginners.
i can slurry a tub and not have to complicate shit with grain jars or even really being clean about it. really its just semi clean. its like skipping a step. and in the instance of my last 2 months of contams. it actually helped get things going waiting on slow spawn to colonize.
i always use pf cakes anyway. i do like 10 masters from one clone syringe via 9er tek. then take 1 of those and slurry it into anywhere from 10 to 100 quart jars of grain. but usually im only doing 10 jars at a time. so really its a waste of that pf cake if your slurrying it. and if you just scrape it with a fork via g2g. your waiting more than a week for your grain jars.
most of the time im tossing out half the pf cake. lately ive been lowering the water content of the slurry so its more muddy in the pf jars. this works well. but can slow growth a little bit in the jars. which isn't bad if the average colonization time for the quart jars is 3 days. also those pf masters are kept in the fridge up to a year. and it takes up less space than quart masters. so anytime i need to slurry quarts or a substrate. i can go right to it. no down time at all. within 3 days have quarts or just slurry that pf cake into a tub now if your lazy and don't like waiting the extra 3 days for grain to colonize. or if your lazy and don't even want to prep grain jars. to me, prepping grain jars is like the most time consuming aspect of this hobby. and you don't have wait to prep the grain jars.
now a days you can do grain without a pressure cooker. using antibacterial grain soaks and then steam the jars for an hour and a half in a pot. the growth doesn't look as vigorous to me, but it still works. and ive seen grows off of it. its made pressure cookers obsolete for the beginner home cultivator. now that might be a different story for the bulk cultivator. this is just a simple way of making a pf cake to bulk in a decent time frame. i was looking at it like one pf cake might get me a few grams of yield. while this tub might get me a little more lol..
the idea was that lets say one has a high trich count in the air. and everything is contaming beyond belief as far as grain goes. but, you have a few pf cakes laying around. then you can maximize those pf cakes with what little you have if you have doubts about your grain.
trich was killing me the last 2 months. i tossed out 145 quarts of wbs. ive not done anything different for years and i have upwards of like 6 total jars per year i toss out to contams on the normal flux of things. making 10 quarts of grain a week.
for some reason the clone work and clean work i did was fiine but i tried everything. i tried so many different spawning methods. nothing worked. all wbs grain contamed. nothing else contamed. nothing in any tubs or clones. just the grain. once i switched to popcorn it was 100 percent no contams. but popcorn is expensive.
so i just tested this waiting on spawn to colonize. really just a fun little experiment. meanwhile, dry yield is only 72 grams dry. 2.5 z. which is not bad for 1 pf cake! which is usually my worst yield on a bulk tub that is too dry or some other factor causing issues.
not as good as i wanted the results to be. but this is just a test run. the material being used was rather old. so that accounts for something.
and im tweaking these new tubs. i can care for this next trial tub more bc life isn't in the way. the last one kinda looked like sphagetti....lol..
as far as bulk goes. ill stick with grain jars for the bulk tubs to maximize yield. but in a desperate situation i might use this as a backup plan as i just did. hopefully some fresh genetics might help increase the yield. as far as i can see. its comparable to about 2 quarts of spawn in a bulk tub. but its only 1 pf cake.
might be an interesting test to put a casing layer on this amazon tub. but im just too lazy to pc a casing for an hour.
Edited by eatyualive (07/30/09 02:35 PM)
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Jitsu
JKD Love
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1,073
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 Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved)  [Re: eatyualive]
#10769181 - 07/30/09 02:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cool thread...
I wonder if you could put it into a super soaker and inoculate giant hay bails with it.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)
Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: Jitsu]
#10769232 - 07/30/09 03:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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jitsu. someone was suggesting something like this. i think it was tv. also another member tested on some straw. so ill keep this thread updated with the thread at the other site if there are any new additions by people testing it out. he was talking about making it like a spray. i think it might work. please try it! if you have the time. might be something very cool for outdoor piles of straw. especially in the rainy season.
Edited by eatyualive (07/30/09 03:09 PM)
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 OZZ
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: eatyualive]
#10771185 - 07/30/09 09:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Badass as always bud!
Ive been using foomans grain tek for awhile now with great results.
Boiling a pot of water on the stove, then removing from heat and soaking the grain for 60 minutes to hydrate, then PC'ing for 60 minutes.
Lately though Im so damn lazy I think Im going to try taking a fully colonized quart of grain and just soak new grain in a pot of boiling water to hydrate, and mix it with the colonized jar at a 3 to 1 ratio without PC'ing. Just to see how it will work. A full quart of spawn mixed with 3 quarts of uncolonized grain would completely colonize in like 3 to 5 days TOPS. I doubt contams would have a chance.
We'll see ... lol.
BTW I know this has nothing to do with your tek at hand, just thinking outloud I guess on an easy way to mass produce spawn - QUICKLY.
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eatyualive
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Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: OZZ]
#10773113 - 07/31/09 07:59 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
OZZ said:
Badass as always bud!
Ive been using foomans grain tek for awhile now with great results. that sounds like a cool experiment. hope it works out. maybe the antibacterial grain soak might help with that? not sure. test it...
Boiling a pot of water on the stove, then removing from heat and soaking the grain for 60 minutes to hydrate, then PC'ing for 60 minutes.
Lately though Im so damn lazy I think Im going to try taking a fully colonized quart of grain and just soak new grain in a pot of boiling water to hydrate, and mix it with the colonized jar at a 3 to 1 ratio without PC'ing. Just to see how it will work. A full quart of spawn mixed with 3 quarts of uncolonized grain would completely colonize in like 3 to 5 days TOPS. I doubt contams would have a chance.
We'll see ... lol.
BTW I know this has nothing to do with your tek at hand, just thinking outloud I guess on an easy way to mass produce spawn - QUICKLY.
yes thats the grain tek i use. its the best one out there. but fooman updated it. and that sounds like a cool experiment. maybe test it with the antibacterial grain soak? who knows. might work.
i just recently did a 20 minute boiled water soak and pc for 1 hour using his tek and it worked great! i did 2 batches. they were the only 2 batches that lasted out of like 13 or 14 i tossed out. the big problem was that the new wbs grain they been getting at the store, has a low heat tolerance. the 1 hour boiled water soak was killing me. by the time i pced an hour many times the grain was sticking together and clumping. i tried lowering soak times, pc times, increase soak times, increase pc times. tried it all. still everything contamed. so the lowered boiling water soak for 20 mins definitely helped. and it was a new type of wbs that worked. the old grain ive been using for years turned green. 4 bags of it in a row.
foomans grain tek
currently ive switched to popcorn. its really easy to get moisture content correct if you strain the popcorn. then just lay it flat on a towel. and put another towel over it to soak up the extra water. then just pc an hour.
i love wbs grain. but when in doubt, popcorn is more reliable on trich outbreaks. not really sure why...
Edited by eatyualive (07/31/09 11:57 AM)
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eatyualive
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: eatyualive]
#10774213 - 07/31/09 11:47 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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ok update from pvacant testing out pan cyans said that after the 3 day spawn run of slurry. that the casing colonized 2 days later. so far looking good. im going to probably have to give this amazon tub a casing. for some reason it didn't fruit last time. and its not fruiting again. too lazy to pc a casing atm...
im out of pic space or id try to upload his pics of the pan mycelia.
Edited by eatyualive (07/31/09 11:50 AM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)
Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: eatyualive]
#10816567 - 08/07/09 08:49 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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2nd flush is coming along. appears the yield is going to be bigger than 1st flush.
these are some monsters. off one PF cake!
now the pics might be deceiving. the fruits are hollow stemmed. not as dense as usual.
  
anyway pvacant has tested it with pans. and said he had a flush. im still waiting on pics for it. but here is what he said.
Quote:
ok eats, or anyone else who cares,
i got mature fruits on sunday (08/02), off of the pan cyan slurry in a hurry tek (i think it was 2-3 days in the fruiting chamber). nothing great, about 1/4 of it flushed... BUT, this morning, i couldn't even count the amount of pins, (and Hyph knots) comming up......i have a pic, but i'm having hella computer problems, and it's taking about 5 minutes to do ANYTHING!, so if i can get this fixed i'll upload the pix. however the goal was to see if this tek will work with pans, and the answer is YES. i would however add, that because the myc is rather thin, compared to cubies, the water ratio should be ......perhaps (IMO)......1/2 pint BRF - 1/2 pint H2O , or a 1:1 ratio of slurry. none the less Eats, you created a very easy way to extend pan myc, and obviously cubie myc, without grains! My vote is a YES! thanx
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legallyhomeless
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: eatyualive]
#10820142 - 08/07/09 09:53 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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 great job on all of this!
Maybe you can explain more why more spawn = more yield?
There are huge piles of woods chips aka mulch around here. I would love to put an active strain in a super soaker like the above poster mentioned and drench it.
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LitCloset
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i just finished going over the thread. fantastic idea,but even better you actually tried it all the way through. 
you said that 1.5 to 2 turkey pans of bulk substrate was used per 1 PF cake in the tub. i really have no clue how much this is. maybe 4 quarts? I'm tempted to get some 1/2 pints just to give this a try.
wait a minute! OK pf jars are fun but grain always goes so much faster for me. think it would be easy enough to grind up a full quart of WBS and have enough slurry to do 8 tubs or 4 tubs with twice the amount of inoculant?
sorry if you posted this i just didn't see it, what are the dimensions or model number of the tubs you use?
maybe i don't have to go get those half pints after all 
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Slimz
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Registered: 10/03/07
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Loc: Maryland
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: LitCloset]
#10822273 - 08/08/09 11:39 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah.. whats kind of measurement is "turkey pan"
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)
Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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some of todays harvest caps were around 4" off 2nd flush of this sub. that was the rest of the tub maturing. the sub seems like it can have another flush. but it was just tossed out. there were no contams or anything. just ready for some new subs bc real spawn is ready lol...
Quote:
LitCloset said:
i just finished going over the thread. fantastic idea,but even better you actually tried it all the way through.
you said that 1.5 to 2 turkey pans of bulk substrate was used per 1 PF cake in the tub. i really have no clue how much this is. maybe 4 quarts? I'm tempted to get some 1/2 pints just to give this a try.
wait a minute! OK pf jars are fun but grain always goes so much faster for me. think it would be easy enough to grind up a full quart of WBS and have enough slurry to do 8 tubs or 4 tubs with twice the amount of inoculant?
sorry if you posted this i just didn't see it, what are the dimensions or model number of the tubs you use?
maybe i don't have to go get those half pints after all
get a quart jar. and some dry verm. and fill the quart jar with dry verm and fill it in a turkey tin. and then see how many quarts are in a turkey tin. i don't know the volume off hand. for me, its easy enough to say 1 turkey tins worth of volume. i just toss it in one big plastic bin and mix it up. this is a turkey tin below. im betting its like 8 quarts at least. not exactly sure. im way too lazy to figure it out. maybe you can figure it out lol. then ill change the measurement above to clarify.
also, with grinding your grain. you could do this. but use a grain that the mycelia penetrates the whole piece of grain. sunflower seeds with the shells do not colonize completely. the mycelia only colonizes the outside shell and does not penetrate in. so that might pose problems. there is an interesting experiment i saw on this. the guy cut each piece of grain in half to see which ones were fully colonized and which were not. it appeared most of the grain contained in wbs besides the sunflower seed shells did colonize all the way through. i liked that experiment and in my opinion if you have the sunflower seed shell in your wbs.. it might be an issue. but if the speed of the slurry beats the contams it might work. its worth trying if you ask me. everything is worth trying once. sunflower seed shells do contam rather easily though.
Quote:
legallyhomeless said:
great job on all of this!
Maybe you can explain more why more spawn = more yield?
There are huge piles of woods chips aka mulch around here. I would love to put an active strain in a super soaker like the above poster mentioned and drench it.
yeah it might be a real cool idea for outdoor sub beds. or compost piles. might wanna use more slurry too. but i might do like 20 liquid pf cakes outdoors. into a compost pile depending on size.
about why with spawn....not sure. maybe because there is more nutrients in 4 quarts of spawn compared to 1 pf cake? but for one pf cake it seems about 4z dry yield in two flushes. which isn't bad if all you have is one pf cake and your super lazy lol.. in my opinion i find the flatter wider tubs to give better yield due to more surface area. then again nature has its ways...
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LitCloset
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: eatyualive]
#10823708 - 08/08/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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hey
I'm sorry if i came across sorta demanding or unappreciative when asking about the turkey tins. i don't have any around to check, i was hoping you knew off hand. I'm trying to figure out if this idea of yours is super duper amazing or super duper duper amazing
i always remove the sunflower seeds from my WBS or buy stuff with out it. maybe there would be a better grain or mix of things, in order to do this on the quart level. ill think about it. waiting for a quart of wbs to grow completely through all the grain will take longer then lc in a few 1/2 pints... something like 2 weeks? 1.5 weeks?
so your using 32:1 substrate to spawn, and getting 4 oz dried off the first and second flush combined?! this really is amazing.
i need to go get me a blender! so a quart jar of wbs has about 2(pint to quart) x 2(1/2 pint to pint) x 2 (verm/brf to WBS) so one quart may actually be the same as using 8 1/2 pint pf cakes? i think that's right. I'm assuming that verm/BRF have about half the nutrients that wbs has by vol because of the verm
so making one quart wbs into a slurry and inoculating 4 mono tubs (holy shit!) would possibly have better yields (per mono tub) vs the 1 cake tub?
4 tubs * 4(+) ounces = 16 oz, the much sought after pound!!!
OK enough rambling from me...
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: LitCloset]
#10824032 - 08/08/09 05:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LitCloset said:
hey
I'm sorry if i came across sorta demanding or unappreciative when asking about the turkey tins. i don't have any around to check, i was hoping you knew off hand. I'm trying to figure out if this idea of yours is super duper amazing or super duper duper amazing
i always remove the sunflower seeds from my WBS or buy stuff with out it. maybe there would be a better grain or mix of things, in order to do this on the quart level. ill think about it. waiting for a quart of wbs to grow completely through all the grain will take longer then lc in a few 1/2 pints... something like 2 weeks? 1.5 weeks?
so your using 32:1 substrate to spawn, and getting 4 oz dried off the first and second flush combined?! this really is amazing.
i need to go get me a blender! so a quart jar of wbs has about 2(pint to quart) x 2(1/2 pint to pint) x 2 (verm/brf to WBS) so one quart may actually be the same as using 8 1/2 pint pf cakes? i think that's right. I'm assuming that verm/BRF have about half the nutrients that wbs has by vol because of the verm
so making one quart wbs into a slurry and inoculating 4 mono tubs (holy shit!) would possibly have better yields (per mono tub) vs the 1 cake tub?
4 tubs * 4(+) ounces = 16 oz, the much sought after pound!!!
OK enough rambling from me...
no you didn't im just way lazy man lol..
and um yeah probably something like that. i didn't quite measure it out. i might do it next time im mixing up subs to try and figure it out. just can't do it atm.
the yield might be lower or higher. from what i saw. all the fruits off the 2nd flush were bigger than 12" and some had 4" caps. they were rather large. even larger than regular spawn runs with grain.
should have results by tomorrow for total yield between two flushes. with spawn you get better yield. but still not bad for 1 pf cake. yes. id assume you would get better results using one quart of spawn blended. but if your just spawning by breaking up that quart of wbs. id say it takes longer to colonize that volume of substrate with grain spawn compared to liquid spawn. if it were the same volume. but ive not compared it so i might be wrong.
although with grain you can get close to that yield in one tub. but this is like a backup plan for when your having issues. or just fun to toy with. you still get decent yield. not the best. id like to have seen more but still, not bad for one pf cake. i turned one pf cake into about plus or minus 4z dry.
the more slurry the better. can't go wrong. but the initial thought was to use 1 extra pf cake leftover that you can't decide what to do with it. or if you have issues at one time or another with contamination on grain you can simply use a pf cake. most ppl have pf cakes laying around.
i thought this was great for newbs who can't do bulk subs due to issues with grain. now they can.
Edited by eatyualive (08/08/09 05:58 PM)
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Alabama Slim
Chinese river witch
Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
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Edited by Alabama Slim (02/01/12 10:14 PM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)
Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: Alabama Slim]
#10828960 - 08/09/09 05:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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2nd flush 81 grams dry. 151 total.
Quote:
Alabama Slim said:
So the tek is:
spore syringe
pf cake blended finely with water
add to bulk substrate
fruit
It's pretty simple but it's been done man.... this is how i did things for the first year before i got a pressure cooker and never went back.
I still get moldy jars now and a again but haven't gone back to pf cakes.
you just have to get one clean master grain jar then start the cycle of grain to grain transfers.
That's not to say that this isn't a great tek and that pf cakes aren't perfectly good material for spawning to bulk.
it doesn't even have to be a slurry, you can just blend the shit out of a pf cake with a blender the spawn to some coir or shit or compost.
the whole idea is that you don't have to use a pressure cooker to make pf jars. so any home cultivator with a small amount of supplies that can make pf cakes. can make bulk subs without having to use grain at all.
yes blending up a dried cake works. ive used it in the past. in the oldskool days! but it takes longer to colonize the substrate. especially with the volume of substrate used here. the liquid and blade pulverize it into smaller pieces and then when the liquid mycelia touches the substrate it colonizes quicker than if you did 1 pf cake side by side dry. the yield might be similar, not real sure about that. but plain pf cakes either forked, grated, or pulverized take a bit longer. either way its just fun to mess around with. maybe a more dense substrate is necessary. im roughly using about a 50 percent nutrient to sub ratio. maybe a 75 percent ratio might up the yield a bit.
and the slurry itself is awesome for grain jars alone. you can get 3 day jar colonization speeds using 1 pf master for up to about 150 quart jars of spawn. its quite amazing actually. but the idea is to skip the grain all together.
Edited by eatyualive (08/09/09 05:51 PM)
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legallyhomeless
mooch
Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 4,051
Loc: EZRA for the Refuge
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: eatyualive]
#10829403 - 08/09/09 06:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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About my post and your response:
I dont think nutrients plays a part. You get way more nutes from the poo then you ever would with WBS. I hope RR or someone like LargeDose checks this out and can elaborate more.
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Alabama Slim
Chinese river witch
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Edited by Alabama Slim (02/01/12 10:15 PM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn (moved) [Re: Alabama Slim]
#10832029 - 08/10/09 08:23 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alabama Slim said:
hey you don't have to convince me bud.....I see nothing wrong with this tek whatsoever.
but i love my pressure cooker and my cultivation process is:
print
malt extract agar
transfer or 2
grain jar (wild birdseed)
more grain jars
substrate (coir and poo)
bulk trays
tripping balls.
love the write up man, keep up the good work.
thats an awesome description lol. especially the end part is my favorite. tripping balls lol
think about this. and i do agree i like grain jars better. and i love my pc too.
going from that pf cake by immediately spawning, your waiting less time on grain colonizing to get your fruit. so you can skip most of those steps and just trip balls sooner lol...
ive had grain jars take upwards of 2 weeks to colonize and downwards of 3 days using a slurry. but on average for me with regular grain to grain from masters, or g2g by forking pf cakes into grain jars, takes me roughly about 5 to 7 days for the quarts to colonize after 1 shake. popcorn grain colonizes in 5 days for me without a shake. its a bit faster than the wbs. but takes much longer to colonize bulk subs than wbs spawn.
so lets say you inject an lc or clone material into a pf jar. what ill do is use like 1 syringe per 2 pf jars and have full colonization in a few days. you then slurry that jar and have fruits within 2 weeks or so depending on the fruiting time frame for that particular strain. so, there are things i see positive about it. like quick fruits to eat. the yield most likely won't be as good. but test it out, you may prove me wrong.
legally,
yeah i was contemplating making a more dense substrate. like 50/50 horse poo to strawnet. so its all nutrients. maybe that will increase the yield a bit. but who knows. ill have to try it out next time..
the amazon tub done with this slurry in previous posts had a casing tossed on it. keeps drying out. tried it a few previous times with the same results so it wasn't the slurry that caused this. just dried out sub using several different substrates.
also yeah im not sure about the nutes in grain. i always use it for spawn and never fruit directly off grain unless there is some invitro growth because a jar was sitting for 2 months or so.. i was just comparing the idea that when i use 2 quarts of spawn compared to 4 or 5 quarts of spawn. i see a difference in my dry yield in the end.
Edited by eatyualive (08/10/09 08:30 AM)
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Skaloser
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Re: Liquid spawn: Slurry Spawn [Re: eatyualive]
#11131955 - 09/26/09 02:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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if you had rye quart jars would it work to slurry them instead of slurrying 1/2 pint brf jars?
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Alabama Slim
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Edited by Alabama Slim (02/01/12 10:15 PM)
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