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soli
rogue psychologist


Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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LC and WBS - Third Grow Attempt
#10606344 - 07/01/09 09:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well this is my third grow attempt and I'm trying to do it right this time. I got a lil more money, a lot more sterilization equipment, and a cleaner home. I have 2 cube prints (seperate strains), and about 4cc of spore syringe left. I've noc'd my first LC (3 days ago today), and I have 4 WBS jars noc'd thus far. I don't have an incubator yet, but it is generally 75-80F+ in the house. Can't find any good heaters in the area, was told fish tank heaters are waste of money so I put the 5 jars total in a small tub sitting on top of my cable box. I'll know tomorrow if that warms it more than room temp.
Anyways, I've outlined what I have done so far, took some trial and error with the WBS especially. First, about my crappy PC:
1) WBS Jars/PC: - the pc only fits two pint jars on their sides. the pc is filled with a couple inches of water, covered by a blue towel for the jars to rest on. the water turns purple from the dye each time I PC, and the syringes even were filled with the blue dye-water when I pulled them out of the pc, but i dumped it. - i fear that the dye water may have seeped in the jars, although there is tyvek between the lid (with small hole) and the WBS. but since so much water was lost in the LC, which also has tyvek, I am unsure. I was told by shroomery member that the dye water shouldn't matter even if it did get in.
2) Jars: - the first 2 jars i made (now colonizing shown below) I prepared backwards by accident, but was told this shouldn't make a big difference. Anyways the first two I prepared by simmering the wbs for 20 minutes, eliminating anything that floated to the top, and then soaked for 24 hours. they are also filled nearly to the top (about to the bottom of the lower most lip ring), and is hard to shake up much (i just tried today, had forgotten the 3/4 rule). they have been in the tub with the LC since yesterday. Nexcare "durapore" surgical tape (upon lysol/bleach wipe down) is used to cover the needle holes. - only concern is that I inoculated them when they were still *slightly* warm; I had let them cool in the PC for an hour and then in the glove box for 1.5 hours and they felt fine through the glove so I noc'd about 1cc in each. when i took it out to place in the tub, i noticed it was not room temperature, but it was nowhere near hot...just warmer than the room. hopefully should be good. These are the 2 noc'd jars:

- today I made 2 more WBS the standard way, this time filled with 3/4 of WBS, although i couldn't pc them until the following day (bout 12 hours). they were PC'd for 90 minutes, and I just moved all of them into the glovebox (wiped down jars with lysol wipes, sprayed box before and after with lysol). once cooled, I noc'd these a different way; I lysol'd glove box, waited 15 mins, put the jars in upon wiping them with lysol/4in1 cleaner, took off the lid/tyvek and injected straight into the WBS and resealed. I took out of box, shook these up pretty good, and placed in tub with the other 3 jars.
- the seed in all 4 jars looks like they absorbed a lot more water on the side of the jar that was down, on the towel. if you look closely below the jar on the left is an example of how what that side looks like when compared to the rest of the jar (like the jar on the right). - my concern is in regards to where i injected/inject the spores. does it make a difference? I hope not..
These are the jars I noc'd today:

- I have about 4cc of syringe left, and two pints cooling down in the PC, which I plan on innocing, and using the remaining syringe to make a couple more LC jars this week in case my first one is botched.
3) This is how I made my glovebox: - the top plastic was cut out, and a trashbag was taped over it. an "X" slit was cut into the plastic large enough to fit a fist through, and then another piece of trash bag taped on top, covering the hole. it is only opened when needed, 15 minutes prior to lysol'd + 4-in-1 cleaner sprayed in the box. anything going in or out of the glove box is wiped with lysol wipes sprayed with 4in1 cleaner.


4) My first LC:
- about 1 tbs (kitchen spoon) of barley malt syrup (as suggested from #cultivation moderator) was boiled lightly and simmered for about 20-25 minutes in 1 pint of water, and then allowed to sit for 1 hour. then, it was poured into a pint jar, excluding the very bottom where some small whitish sediments were observed. then it was pressure-cooked (on it's side) for 15-20 minutes. it was cooled in the cooker, and then for another couple hours in the glove box, followed by 1.5cc inoculation. due to lack of supplies, a bandaid was unwrapped, wiped with lysol and placed over the hole, with electric tape holding it to the metal.

- I noticed that upon pressure cooking, much more sediment appeared on the bottom of the jar. the LC has been stored for the past 2 or 3 days in a tub (lysol'd once per day) in the warmest room in the house, about 80F. I just moved it to the top of the cable box today. - it looks like there is more sediment on the bottom, but it is hard to tell since it is not clear; i dont see any growth in the water yet.

- my plan for the future LC is to use the same syrup, but boil it for much longer -- this may give me more sediment to remove. But is overboiling a problem? I know it can carmalize -- is that what is sitting at the bottom of the jar or could that be growth? -if you look closely at the big red picture below, thats the best shot I could take of the bottom of the LC jar. All the darker crap on the bottom is the sediment (or growth?) I've noticed building up.

Thanks for anyone who answers! And yes I have done my reading but I tend to forget minor details (such as soaking WBS first). This is my third grow attempt; past 2 failed. First one, one jar colonized halfway but gave up -- the second time, all contam'd except one, which dried up. Reason behind tehse problems was probably the lack of incubation (first one was stored in my attic, second set of jars were kept under a cardboard box over heating duct! (kids, don't do too much xtc
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soli
rogue psychologist


Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: LC and WBS - Third Grow Attempt [Re: soli]
#10606589 - 07/01/09 10:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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guest1
Mycena




Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 852
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: LC and WBS - Third Grow Attempt [Re: soli]
#10606655 - 07/01/09 10:33 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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It has to do with different temps from inside the jar and outside the jar, and the LC boils out of the container while cooling in the PC.
The would not be at a greater risk of contams because you forgot the foil, unless they got a lot of excess water which can result in a bacterial contam. Spores cost more than WBS, so take spore prints from caps to replace what you used.
The seeds look a bit wet, but they are out of focus and poor lighting so it could be better than it looks. A good look is physically dry outside of seeds.
If you already knocked up jars, don't throw them out because "they might not work" just wait and see.
The length of time a jar can sit before use, depends on how much moisture is in it, the more, the longer it may last before becoming completely dried out. People have had success with month old PC'd jars and if your jar is too wet, u can let it sit a while and it will start to dry to a better level.
I recommend 91% isopropyl alcohol instead of lysol. It evaporates away and I hear lysol can cause mutants/mutations.
Spores can take about 3-14 days and up to 5 weeks to germinate and see the first visible sign of growth. If you see no growth, just wait, there is no point in throwing out PC'd media that has no contam. Keep the 5 weeks it has taken before on your mind when you hit day 4 and see no signs and are wanting to give up like many many people do.
Contams should be the only reason to throw away substrate/grains/cakes and so on if they have been inoculated. If you have yet to inoculate something and it looks poor, then don't inoculate it.
- Mushroom cultivation FAQ - Mycelial Water (Grain LC)
Edited by guest1 (07/01/09 10:51 PM)
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soli
rogue psychologist


Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: LC and WBS - Third Grow Attempt [Re: soli]
#10606960 - 07/01/09 11:26 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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thanks man! I have about 2 cc left in my syringe, and I had 2 uncooked WBS jars from yesterday left , so I emptied them to 3/4, tyvek'd, foiled and are cooking now. i plan on leaving them in the PC to noc tomorrow morning. from the sounds of it, aside from the fact that these last 2 jars a couple days old, i think i have done everything else right so if all else fails, hopefully one of these won't.
also, I just PC'd some water for 20 mins, filled up 15 pre-sterilized syringes with water while wearing a face mask in my living room; took about 5 minutes, worked fast. hopefully i did that right!
can anyone give me an estimate on the likelyhood of my other 4 jars and the LC working? remember, i forgot to tin foil them, they only have tyvek.
thanks!
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soli
rogue psychologist


Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: LC and WBS - Third Grow Attempt -- Syringes [Re: soli]
#10607090 - 07/01/09 11:55 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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guest1/anyone, the seeds still look pretty moist, the same way they looked before i cooked them. is that bad?
also, im making some spore syringes, i have clean excel sterile needles... i sterilized tap water in a pint in my PC for 20 minutes, and removed. lysol'd the room, took off the cap within 5 minutes of being out of the PC, and filled up syringes as quickly as possible, storing them in a bag sprayed with 91% alcohol. afterwards i remembered i was supposed to inject through a layer of tyvek to protect the water -- does anyone know if i need to do it again, or is what i did okay to fill up? I wore a face mask and used purell on my hands. the water was exposed to open air for probably 5 minutes.
any thoughts? thanks
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Edited by soli (07/01/09 11:56 PM)
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soli
rogue psychologist


Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: LC and WBS - Third Grow Attempt -- Syringes [Re: soli]
#10612108 - 07/02/09 09:02 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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so this is what i have as of now, no signs of growth in anything:
- LC jar: 4 days old, lost 25% water in PC - (2) pints that were simmered > soaked, filled up 90% instead of 3/4, PC'd with tyvek and hole in lid, forgot to use tin foil. needle hole is covered in Durapore surgical tape. - (2) 2 day old pints that are soaked > simmered (properly), filled 3/4, but forgot to use tin foil. inoculated these in the glovebox by taking off lid and injecting straight, as to avoid making a needle hole in tyvek. - (2) 1 day old pints prepared the same way as above except i used tin foil this time.
They are stored on a tub; since yesterday they have been on cable box (to act as incubator), heats to about 84F.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: LC and WBS - Third Grow Attempt -- Syringes [Re: soli]
#10612458 - 07/02/09 10:20 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, it'll be a week or so before those jars show anything, watch these videos in the meantime. Do it like the videos.
Cable box is too warm, a cabinet is fine. Also, it's best to start your LC with some Grain LC or just use only GLC vs starting sugar LC w spores.
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soli
rogue psychologist


Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: LC and WBS - Third Grow Attempt -- Syringes [Re: Doc_T]
#10625844 - 07/05/09 04:59 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah the LC isn't working at all . I have 12 jars total, slow but present growth in about 4 of them (the jars I innoc'd with the syringe i bought), 6 jars total from that syringe , all jars contain the brand of WBS that does not contain cracked corn. These 6 jars I place more faith in because although 4 of them were cooked without tin foil, they were made using a syringe I know is legit, and also with WBS containing 0 cracked corn. They have been inoculated for over a week, and growth is very slow.
the 6 other pints , which I began innoc'ing about 3-4 days ago are showing no growth, and were made with WBS containing cracked corn, prepp'd properly otherwise. I made a total of 16 syringes out of a spore print obtained from same place I got the syringe (only messed up by leaving the print in daylight for a couple weeks prior to use but was told this is okay). I'm pretty sure I made the syringes correctly (PC'd water for 20 minutes, removed from cooker, and filled up pre-sterilized syringes (wrapper says that they are 100% sterile in unopened package) in open air prior to lysol. The water was exposed to open air for no less than 5 minutes as we filled the syringes, and then waited till the next day, filled with spores in lysol'd/alcohol'd glove box. I forgot to flame a lot of the syringes after I filled them with spores, but I did keep the cap on a lysol wipe sprayed with 91% alcohol -- hopefully I did this right.
I spray lysol in my grow area many times daily and also spray the lysol in the inside of the tub containing the jars. I agree the cable box is not sufficient, but plan on buying a fish tank heater (best I can find is one that goes up to 78F) and making a TiT. I hope that growth is slow because the tub of jars was NOT on cable box for first week, but since it has been on the box the inside temp is generally about 82-84F, getting as low as 72F this morning.
My main concern is that I prepared the syringes correctly, and that the WBS is okay because all the jars were PC'd on their side (my PC is small), so the side closest to heat is full of WBS that looks very expanded and white-ish, and that section in most jars would not break up when shook. Can anyone explain this, or offer any other suggestions? This is my first time with WBS.
Thanks
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