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Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
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The lords prayer has changed quite a bit
#10620882 - 07/04/09 01:00 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Read this on some site. I like the longer one. It seems far more pertinent.
Quote:
The Lords Prayer translated from Aramaic into English, rather than from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English
O cosmic Birther of all radiance and vibration! Soften the ground of our being and carve out a space within us where Your Presence can abide. Fill us with your creativity so that we may be empowered to bear the fruit of your mission. Let each of our actions bear fruit in accordance with our desire. Endow us with the wisdom to produce and share what each being needs to grow and flourish. Untie the tangled threads of destiny that bind us, as we release others from the entanglement of past mistakes. Do not let us be seduced by that which would divert us from our true purpose, but illuminate the opportunities of the present moment. For you are the round and the fruitful vision, the birth-power and fulfillment, as all is gathered and made whole once again.
<<< more words
The Lord's Prayer in Late Modern English, Book of Common Prayer, 1928
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.
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hidenseek
loafter



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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Visionary Tools]
#10620993 - 07/04/09 01:21 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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i might practice religion if i got to say stuff like that
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Silversoul
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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Visionary Tools]
#10621052 - 07/04/09 01:32 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds lovely, but how could they translate directly from Aramaic? The New Testament was written in Greek, so they would have to translate from Greek to Aramaic to English.
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Silversoul]
#10621068 - 07/04/09 01:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I too have questions on the authenticity.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Kickle]
#10621111 - 07/04/09 01:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I found this blog from an Aramaic translator debunking such New Age interpretations.
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Silversoul]
#10621212 - 07/04/09 01:59 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Visionary Tools



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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Kickle]
#10622567 - 07/04/09 09:46 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't care how accurate it is. For all I know the council of nicaea edited out all the dragons, unicorns and dinosaurs Jesus was pals with. Helping people out of the tangle of their past mistakes is fucking fantastic.
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Visionary Tools]
#10623047 - 07/05/09 12:33 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said: I don't care how accurate it is.
Oh, ok. I thought you were trying to pawn it off as authentic.
Quote:
Visionary Tools said: Helping people out of the tangle of their past mistakes is fucking fantastic.
What? Who's tangle are you referring to, and what past mistakes? We all make mistakes, and yes, while it is nice to have someone help us out when we need it, I'm not sure what this has to do with an altered version of a prayer. Any chance you could clarify that a bit?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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BlueCoyote
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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Visionary Tools]
#10623385 - 07/05/09 02:49 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nice interpretation
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jonathanseagull
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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Kickle]
#10623737 - 07/05/09 07:59 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
Visionary Tools said: Helping people out of the tangle of their past mistakes is fucking fantastic.
What? Who's tangle are you referring to, and what past mistakes? We all make mistakes, and yes, while it is nice to have someone help us out when we need it, I'm not sure what this has to do with an altered version of a prayer. Any chance you could clarify that a bit?
Quoted from the "new" translation: Untie the tangled threads of destiny that bind us, as we release others from the entanglement of past mistakes.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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c0sm0nautt

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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: jonathanseagull]
#10625892 - 07/05/09 05:07 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds like the "New Age" translation to me. It resonates a lot better than the fire and brimstone.
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: jonathanseagull]
#10626323 - 07/05/09 06:30 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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blewmeanie




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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Kickle]
#10626344 - 07/05/09 06:34 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I read something a few years ago suggesting that the "lords prayer" was the cumulative creation of multiple translations piling on top of each other. Basically it got bigger and bigger with every scribe that translated it, and the only original part may have been the words "our father".
I wish I could remember where I read that.
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Mr.Al
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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Visionary Tools]
#10626515 - 07/05/09 07:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fucking Romans interfered with the message.
Jesus was not socially acceptable.
The people who frequent churches would probably not like him.
A lot of the stuff he said was really far out.
The stuff written by his apostles was mostly garbage, but that is what you hear at church.
Anyway, I just wanted to be in this thread so I can read that again.......
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sterbeklang
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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Mr.Al]
#10626769 - 07/05/09 08:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm going to hold out for more info, but it would be wonderful if it were true. I kinda have a feeling that in the very early days of Christianity it was more of an "Earth Mother" religion... and then yeah... the Romans. Ugh.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: sterbeklang]
#10626821 - 07/05/09 08:28 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sterbeklang said: I kinda have a feeling that in the very early days of Christianity it was more of an "Earth Mother" religion... and then yeah... the Romans. Ugh.
No. Romans had much more of an "Earth Mother" aspect to their religion than the Christians. In fact, they specifically had a name for her: Terra. She was based on the Greek goddess Gaia.
Now, it is true that there was a lot more mysticism in early Christianity that eventually got suppressed as the church became more institutionalized. But this is simply a manifestation of the fact that there were so many versions of early Christianity, ranging from the legalistic to the mystical to the more Jewish to the more Hellenistic, etc. But so far as I'm aware, there was no pagan-like "Earth mother" form of Christianity. The only goddess I'm aware of in early Christendom was Sophia in the Gnostic groups. But Sophia was no Earth mother -- the Gnostics, in fact, hated the Earth and considered it a prison for the soul. The orthodox critics of Gnosticism such as Iraneus and Justin Martyr actually attacked them for defaming God's creation.
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sterbeklang
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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Silversoul]
#10628546 - 07/06/09 05:35 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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What if we make Mary the Earth Mother?
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Seuss
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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Silversoul]
#10628554 - 07/06/09 05:39 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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> Sounds lovely, but how could they translate directly from Aramaic? The New Testament was written in Greek, so they would have to translate from Greek to Aramaic to English.
Although the majority of the NT is assumed to be originally written in Greek, there are a few parts of it (Book of Mathew, and one other that I can't remember) that are thought to have been written in Aramaic and Hebrew. A few people also claim that the entire thing was originally written in Aramaic and then translated into Greek. The books Mark, Mathew, and Luke appear to have a common source, the Q book, which would most likely have been written in Aramaic. Regardless, we really don't know if the originals were completely written in Greek, mostly written in Greek, or translated form other sources into Greek. We do know that Greek was the unifying language used as a source of later translations.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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blewmeanie




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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: Seuss]
#10628583 - 07/06/09 06:06 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Visionary Tools



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Re: The lords prayer has changed quite a bit [Re: sterbeklang]
#10628654 - 07/06/09 06:47 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sterbeklang said: What if we make Mary the Earth Mother?
What if earth was the earth mother?
Doesn't really need a goddess. Sure, you can worship the planet, the plants, the fish and fowl, the beasts and trees, the mountains and valleys, the deserts and tundras, or you could worship the once scource from which all things arise. That original thought that led to all.
Jesus really didn't like the Romans very much, and pre Christian Romans really liked doing brutal, horrible things with them (look for "rome human torch" if you want to see).
The Romans realised they would not be able to defeat it's popularity, and felt people would unify under the banner of the cross against them. They took it, and made it their own.
For this, I dispise the Romans, and their barbaric religion to this day. I was Catholic, I was brought up Catholic, and I see how my grandmother worships. All of that has cemented my knowledge that it's a blasphemous cult, that does more to keep people spiritually confused than anything else.
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