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InvisibleAlexP
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Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 2,270
Loc: Europe
Casing
    #10610223 - 07/02/09 02:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Have you guys ever tryed casing the same strain, with the same conditions, but varying the casing materials? What was the performance compared to plain vermiculite doing 50/50 verm and peat and plain peat?

Edit: For cubes.


--------------------
"To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa

"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them." Eliphas Levi

"The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die. The eternal mistake of mankind is to set up an attainable ideal." Aleister Crowley

"The Universe is an artistic catharsis." Artifex Infinitum

Edited by AlexP (07/02/09 02:43 PM)

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InvisibleAlexP
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Re: Casing [Re: AlexP]
    #10610825 - 07/02/09 04:42 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Any one? Come on! Some of you guys must have tried it! I will if no one has... lol


--------------------
"To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa

"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them." Eliphas Levi

"The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die. The eternal mistake of mankind is to set up an attainable ideal." Aleister Crowley

"The Universe is an artistic catharsis." Artifex Infinitum

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
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Re: Casing [Re: AlexP]
    #10611277 - 07/02/09 06:01 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

20+ years of trial and error of this and that mixtures have been done, the newest and best info is all here if you use the search filters correctly.  just watch out for old and outdated info as it can teach bad habits.

www.mushroomvideos.com will show you all about the 50/50 peat/verm and why its mixed that way.

cubes dont need a casing when cultivating them, only if the person is having troubles with keeping humidity up, to me casing your sub is just another step where you can possibly add contams.


--------------------
:takingnotes:A M U:helpdesk:
Click here ^ for the AMU forum
VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV
"Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~  Marshall McLuhan

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OfflineT-Rex
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Re: Casing [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10611561 - 07/02/09 06:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

The 50/50+ tek is the most reliable casing mix

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InvisibleLucid_Euphoria
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Re: Casing [Re: T-Rex]
    #10611589 - 07/02/09 07:04 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cubes dont need a casing when cultivating them, only if the person is having troubles with keeping humidity up, to me casing your sub is just another step where you can possibly add contams.




While the above statement is true. A casing layer offers much more than just humidity. Especially for multiple flushes. The structure of the cropping surface is important for primordia formation. Multiple flushes without a casing layer can lead to a matted down cropping surface that will inhibit primordial growth. Also, without a casing all the moisture for fruit/pin production is taken from the substrate, meaning it is critical to rehydrate the substrate between flushes.

I've done both cased and uncased grows, and I've yet to decide which way I want to go with regularly. Both sides have advantages and disadvantages. Its really up to personal preference. However if you are going to case, then the 50/50+ mix is what you want to use without a doubt.


--------------------
PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE

"If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-

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OfflineT-Rex
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Re: Casing [Re: Lucid_Euphoria]
    #10611606 - 07/02/09 07:08 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well said.^^^^^^^The only time I really dont case is when using mono-tubs. When I'm using trays in a martha/Shotgun FC I always use a casing layer.

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InvisibleLucid_Euphoria
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Re: Casing [Re: T-Rex]
    #10611615 - 07/02/09 07:11 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The only time I really dont case is when using mono-tubs. When I'm using trays in a martha/Shotgun FC I always use a casing layer.




That seems to be the standard also. A lot of people who do monotubs don't bother casing. Yet "grow chamber" grows are typically seen cased.

I'm a monotub maniac though, it's all I've ever used.


--------------------
PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE

"If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-

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OfflineT-Rex
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Re: Casing [Re: Lucid_Euphoria]
    #10611640 - 07/02/09 07:16 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Same. I find mono tubs perform better and you dont have to baby it if you have a busy schedule. But I always have shotgun going to use for my experimental trays :rockon:

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InvisibleAlexP
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Re: Casing [Re: T-Rex]
    #10611674 - 07/02/09 07:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you so much guys! I was asking this because I have huge amounts of peat and vermiculite. I will be doing lots of cakes and as I have a huge amount of jars with a "neck" I will also go for grains. I'm gonna do cakes, I will spawn grains to bulk and I'll also fruit in jars with BRF and WBS. I will be working with Puerto Ricans, B+ or Pink Buffalo, not sure and Pan. Cyans.

:crazy2::gethigh:


--------------------
"To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa

"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them." Eliphas Levi

"The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die. The eternal mistake of mankind is to set up an attainable ideal." Aleister Crowley

"The Universe is an artistic catharsis." Artifex Infinitum

Edited by AlexP (07/02/09 07:27 PM)

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing [Re: Lucid_Euphoria]
    #10611753 - 07/02/09 07:42 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lucid_Euphoria said:
Quote:

cubes dont need a casing when cultivating them, only if the person is having troubles with keeping humidity up, to me casing your sub is just another step where you can possibly add contams.




While the above statement is true. A casing layer offers much more than just humidity. Especially for multiple flushes. The structure of the cropping surface is important for primordia formation. Multiple flushes without a casing layer can lead to a matted down cropping surface that will inhibit primordial growth. Also, without a casing all the moisture for fruit/pin production is taken from the substrate, meaning it is critical to rehydrate the substrate between flushes.

I've done both cased and uncased grows, and I've yet to decide which way I want to go with regularly. Both sides have advantages and disadvantages. Its really up to personal preference. However if you are going to case, then the 50/50+ mix is what you want to use without a doubt.



You are learning beyond the curve and will someday have a true understanding of mycology and not through hearsay and reading but through experiencing what it is to be myc first hand. :thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleAlexP
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Re: Casing [Re: hyphae]
    #10611776 - 07/02/09 07:48 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You are learning beyond the curve and will someday have a true understanding of mycology and not through hearsay and reading but through experiencing what it is to be myc first hand.




:courtjudge:

Thanks!

Edit: I love learning and experimenting! :tunnel:


--------------------
"To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa

"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them." Eliphas Levi

"The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die. The eternal mistake of mankind is to set up an attainable ideal." Aleister Crowley

"The Universe is an artistic catharsis." Artifex Infinitum

Edited by AlexP (07/02/09 07:54 PM)

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Casing [Re: AlexP]
    #10611853 - 07/02/09 08:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I'm a monotub maniac though, it's all I've ever used.




same here!:headbang3:


--------------------
:takingnotes:A M U:helpdesk:
Click here ^ for the AMU forum
VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV
"Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~  Marshall McLuhan

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing [Re: AlexP]
    #10611864 - 07/02/09 08:09 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

That was meant for Lucid_Euphoria BTW. Your time will come AlexP.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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OfflinePsuper
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Re: Casing [Re: Lucid_Euphoria]
    #10612163 - 07/02/09 09:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lucid_Euphoria said:
Quote:

The only time I really dont case is when using mono-tubs. When I'm using trays in a martha/Shotgun FC I always use a casing layer.




That seems to be the standard also. A lot of people who do monotubs don't bother casing. Yet "grow chamber" grows are typically seen cased.

I'm a monotub maniac though, it's all I've ever used.





Based on what I've read I kindof thought it was just the opposite.  Some monotub pros get better results with casing layers.  I don't bother doing them with my trays.  I dunk between flushes, and don't get a lot of benefit from a casing layer.

However, I put my trays in a perlite tub which perhaps holds a slightly higher rh than some greenhouses. 

Anyways, I am not trying to disagree. That's just my limited experience. Just goes to show how each cultivator has different needs. :thumbup: ~Pixie~


--------------------
Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk

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InvisibleAlexP
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Re: Casing [Re: Psuper]
    #10612208 - 07/02/09 09:26 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

That was meant for Lucid_Euphoria BTW. Your time will come AlexP.




Yes I'm sure!

:gethigh:


--------------------
"To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa

"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them." Eliphas Levi

"The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die. The eternal mistake of mankind is to set up an attainable ideal." Aleister Crowley

"The Universe is an artistic catharsis." Artifex Infinitum

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OfflineT-Rex
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Re: Casing [Re: Psuper]
    #10612216 - 07/02/09 09:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well if you dont use a casing layer on small trays, you should use a piece of crumpled wax paper on top to initiate pinning by creating a micro climate as the casing layer would have

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing [Re: Psuper]
    #10612292 - 07/02/09 09:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psuper said:
I dunk between flushes, and don't get a lot of benefit from a casing layer.~Pixie~



A casing layer must be managed correctly to see it's benefits. But as you said each cultivator is different in their preferences. I myself can't see dunking between flushes when I can simply continue misting as usual. Or with my Homer2 I don't do anything besides harvesting flushes that sometimes don't seem to ever quit! To each their own :peace:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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OfflinePsuper
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Re: Casing [Re: hyphae]
    #10612363 - 07/02/09 09:58 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
Quote:

Psuper said:
I dunk between flushes, and don't get a lot of benefit from a casing layer.~Pixie~



A casing layer must be managed correctly to see it's benefits. But as you said each cultivator is different in their preferences. I myself can't see dunking between flushes when I can simply continue misting as usual. Or with my Homer2 I don't do anything besides harvesting flushes that sometimes don't seem to ever quit! To each their own :peace:




Definately, and really, as I get my timing and technique more perfected perhaps I'll come to some point where I see the addition of a casing layer to my bulk substrate make a noticeable difference.  But, again, just my limited experience.  I appreciate the input. ~Pixie~


--------------------
Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Casing [Re: Psuper]
    #10612497 - 07/02/09 10:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I'm a die hard fan of casing my mono's.  I read and see all the threads of members having soooo much success without casing layers.  The fact that I work 10+ hours every day keeps me away from my tubs.  I get home, mist the casing layer for about 10 seconds and I'm done.  I've "Tweaked" my system down to what I consider "Perfect".  After God knows how many tubs, and how many mediocre grows, I've found the "Sweet Spot".  Once you find that...... Your Golden.  My casing layer of choice is 50/50,  MGMC and Verm.  About 1/2 inch layer to a full inch, (never more).  Monotubs are 64qt sterlite tubs that get filled with 1brick of coir, 16 cups of verm, 2 cups of spent coffee,  and 1 cup of gypsum.  Once pasteurized, it's spawned with 6 qts of fully colonized WBS. I usually get about 6oz of dried goodness when it's all said and done.  Now think of having 4 tubs running continuously.  Do the math :wink:  CASING LAYER RULE!


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

Edited by The shroomy 1 (07/02/09 10:28 PM)

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OfflineT-Rex
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Re: Casing [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #10612680 - 07/02/09 11:03 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yea but I get 6-7 ounces each tub w/o casing my monos. My substrate is always WBS spawned to
cow manure/coir/verm/coffe

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Casing [Re: T-Rex]
    #10612891 - 07/02/09 11:59 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shroomngreen89 said:
Yea but I get 6-7 ounces each tub w/o casing my monos. My substrate is always WBS spawned to
cow manure/coir/verm/coffe




Did you somehow miss the idea that EVERY CULTIVATOR has his/her preferences?  I have my technique tweaked to what makes me very very happy.  You obviously have your technique tweaked to what makes you very very happy.  I happen to like the "added security" of the casing layer because I'm away from them so much. 

Quote:

Shroomgreen89 said Yea but I get 6-7 ounces each tub w/o casing my monos. My substrate is always WBS spawned to
cow manure/coir/verm/coffe


We're not comparing penis sizes are we.:grin:


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

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Re: Casing [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #10613013 - 07/03/09 12:19 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

No at all brotha I'm just stating that I never really noticed a diffrence in yield when using a casing layer on monos..
But to each his own.
No bad vibes coming from here.
And no no I wasn't comparing sizes but hey im always down for a STIFF competion. :dancer:

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Offlinetrentallica
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Re: Casing [Re: T-Rex]
    #10613096 - 07/03/09 12:37 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i use a bowls in a mini greenhouse that is keep at 95 to 99% humidity, and i always case. my greenhouse holds 24 bowls, and on a few occasions i simply ran out of casing mix, before i ran out of bowls, and had to go caseless. i always get a much lower yield, and slower pinset.

  i use the 50/50+ mix that everyone uses, and i understand the concept of the micro evvironment, but i still wounder if i could get the same results with just coco coir, and verm.


--------------------
The only ones for me are the mad ones..........
                  :ass2mouth:

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing [Re: trentallica]
    #10614395 - 07/03/09 07:10 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trentallica said:
i use a bowls in a mini greenhouse that is keep at 95 to 99% humidity, and i always case. my greenhouse holds 24 bowls, and on a few occasions i simply ran out of casing mix, before i ran out of bowls, and had to go caseless. i always get a much lower yield, and slower pinset.

  i use the 50/50+ mix that everyone uses, and i understand the concept of the micro evvironment, but i still wounder if i could get the same results with just coco coir, and verm.



Coco is nutritious you don't want that as a casing although that would be a step up from no casing at all nutrition plus added moisture retention I see benefits!


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Casing [Re: T-Rex]
    #10618090 - 07/03/09 09:39 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shroomngreen89 said:
No at all brotha I'm just stating that I never really noticed a diffrence in yield when using a casing layer on monos..
But to each his own.
No bad vibes coming from here.
And no no I wasn't comparing sizes but hey im always down for a STIFF competion. :dancer:





Oh God, I'm sorry if I came off like that.  No, I didn't think you were passing on bad vibes.  As a matter of fact, I have 2 tubs that were cased about 3 days ago and I have 2 tubs that I would normally be casing next week.  I'm going to let those two tubs go uncased and I'll pay a bit more attention to those just in case.  We'll see how they perform. :super:  :peace::mushroom2:


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

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Offlinetrentallica
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Re: Casing [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #10629837 - 07/06/09 12:18 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i have heard the argument that a so called true casing has no nutrition in it. i dont really understand the hang up some people (im not including you just pointing it out)have about coco. its what best for the fruit that should matter. not the vocabulary. in defense to the coco i have cased over 1,000 bowls this way and i have had almost no contamination issues what so ever, and the ones i did have were from when i was still learning what to do. i have been doing a lot of time thinking about just using coco, and verm as a casing. that would cut out any need for concern about ph. no peat moss, no oyster flower, and no lime. ill still use water though. the purpois of the casing layer are being met. i have created a nice little micro environment for pinning.


--------------------
The only ones for me are the mad ones..........
                  :ass2mouth:

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Casing [Re: trentallica]
    #10630127 - 07/06/09 01:05 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

not knockin what works for u BUT when your casing has nutrients in it it just takes longer for your sub to colonize, cuz it colonizes the casing also.  thats why we try not to have anything for the myc to feed on and dont case until the sub is fully colonized.  then its just a matter of a couple days and mushies are popping out the casing.

not to mention when there's nutes in the casing it allows for contams to feed if they are present. 

otherwise its doubles as a barrier for contams b4 it gets to the myc.

but if it works dont fix it.  just some FYI.:getstoned:


--------------------
:takingnotes:A M U:helpdesk:
Click here ^ for the AMU forum
VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV
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