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tall dwarf
Strange
Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 15 years, 30 days
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when to fruit bulk cakes?
#10606896 - 07/01/09 11:15 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hi, sorry I have no pics but I'll try to explain this clearly. 12 days ago I crumbled some BRF cakes into hpoo. After about 7 or 8 days the trays seemed 90% colonized. But for the last few days they haven't progressed much. The trays are transparent trays so I can see everything that's going on. There are a few spots of poo on the bottom of several trays that don't seem to want to finish colonizing. I've noticed some water pooling on the bottoms which I think is due to the condensation on the walls dripping down below. But I don't know how big a deal that is because most people who use opaque trays wouldn't even know it's happening. I plan on fruiting these substrates out of the containers like cakes, but I'm not sure when to birth them? So I guess my question are:
1. Does bulk require the same 1 week consolidation period that regular PF cakes do? 2. How will I know when full colonization is reached? Should I wait for every last bit of poo to colonize because I'm worried that these spots on bottom never will.
I should mention that the tops of the trays are still a little brown will rhizomorphic "arms" reaching up through the poo. Do I wait for the mycelium to engulf the substrate completely? It just seems that nothing much has changed for the past few days.
Thanks in advance for the help.
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TheMushaman
Philosophical Wanderer



Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 442
Loc: Electric Ladyland
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: tall dwarf]
#10606930 - 07/01/09 11:20 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why not just case? You already spawned, it should be easier to just apply a 50/50 mix. Jiffy mix works well. I don't see the point of fruiting bulk as cakes. You will get a much better yield casing.
-------------------- The messages and posts submitted by this user are purely hypothetical and intended for educational/entertainment purposes only. The above user does not advocate any illegal activities or substances. However, the user feels that proper education and awareness is needed in all aspects of life. This user is open to intelligent discourse and any variety of topics, but only for educational/research purposes and to expand the awareness of others. Freedom is a beautiful thing, but can only be obtained through elevated awareness. Simply put, free thy mind and thy ass shall surely follow.
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tall dwarf
Strange
Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 15 years, 30 days
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: TheMushaman]
#10608333 - 07/02/09 07:16 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMushaman said: Why not just case? You already spawned, it should be easier to just apply a 50/50 mix. Jiffy mix works well. I don't see the point of fruiting bulk as cakes. You will get a much better yield casing.
I've read that cubensis doesn't necessarily benefit from a casing layer. For this grow I was gonna go uncased.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,734
Loc: USA
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: tall dwarf]
#10608506 - 07/02/09 07:58 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Some approaches I've used to insure 100% colonization include:
1. Use some coir Even at 5-10%, coir REALLY helps to insure total colonization. 2. Use thin layers. Two or three inches of substrate perform fine. Problems often occur with thicker layers 3. Use high ratios of spawn
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tall dwarf
Strange
Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 15 years, 30 days
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10608934 - 07/02/09 10:20 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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RJ thanks for those tips.
The thickness of the substrates are 2.5/3 inches, the ratio was about 2:1, and it's too late to add coir for this project.
If anyone else sees this thread I'm still wondering whether every last bit of hpoo is supposed to colonize (all white with no brown spots) and whether these bulk trays require the same week-long consolidation period that cakes do. I'm not really sure when to birth.
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tall dwarf
Strange
Registered: 06/11/09
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: tall dwarf] 1
#10611797 - 07/02/09 07:51 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm a little worried about the water pooling on the bottom of the trays. There are chunks of poo that seem to be drowning and thus aren't colonizing. Again, I don't know if it's a big deal because people who use aluminum trays wouldn't even see it. Can I pour it out? Can I birth a bulk cake even with some uncolonized substrate?
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TheMushaman
Philosophical Wanderer



Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 442
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Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: tall dwarf]
#10611812 - 07/02/09 07:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Golden_Student said:
Quote:
TheMushaman said: Why not just case? You already spawned, it should be easier to just apply a 50/50 mix. Jiffy mix works well. I don't see the point of fruiting bulk as cakes. You will get a much better yield casing.
I've read that cubensis doesn't necessarily benefit from a casing layer. For this grow I was gonna go uncased.
They defnitely do benefit, as long as you have a good pinning strategy. A casing layer will retain moisture which keeps the immediate RH up. They do seem to benefit for me. With hypae's pinny strategy you cant go wrong.
-------------------- The messages and posts submitted by this user are purely hypothetical and intended for educational/entertainment purposes only. The above user does not advocate any illegal activities or substances. However, the user feels that proper education and awareness is needed in all aspects of life. This user is open to intelligent discourse and any variety of topics, but only for educational/research purposes and to expand the awareness of others. Freedom is a beautiful thing, but can only be obtained through elevated awareness. Simply put, free thy mind and thy ass shall surely follow.
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jacbpdx
Stranger


Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 40
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: tall dwarf]
#10611946 - 07/02/09 08:26 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have experienced great yields when casing and fruiting as soon as I saw myc pok thru and i have also seen great yields waiting for the whole tray to colonize.....the flip side is that I have had total failure with both of the above as well. YOu just gotta feel it out and do what works for you. everyone on this site has had different eperiences and nothing in this field is definitive. mushrooms are survivors and just when you think that there is no chance the little fuckers pop up. anyway..best thing that i ever did was keep a record of all parameters during grows...that way i see what has worked and what has not.
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moldem
Stranger Than You


Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 294
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: jacbpdx]
#10611963 - 07/02/09 08:31 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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To answer the question, NO you don't have to wait for all the poo to colonize before fruiting.
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tall dwarf
Strange
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: moldem]
#10617336 - 07/03/09 06:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's been two weeks exactly, and there are still portions of the bottoms that won't colonize. Are you sure it's ok to remove them from the trays when there is still portions of uncolonized substrate? I'm willing to wait longer, but it doesn't seem to be progressing much.
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hyphae
born to grow



Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: tall dwarf]
#10617488 - 07/03/09 07:09 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Golden_Student said:
Quote:
TheMushaman said: Why not just case? You already spawned, it should be easier to just apply a 50/50 mix. Jiffy mix works well. I don't see the point of fruiting bulk as cakes. You will get a much better yield casing.
I've read that cubensis doesn't necessarily benefit from a casing layer. For this grow I was gonna go uncased.
Cubensis ALWAYS benefits from a casing layer! Whoever says it doesn't needs their head examined and shouldn't be growing shrooms in the first place! What they say is cubensis doesn't need a casing layer to fruit there's a huge difference between the two excuse my language but all I can say is ignorance is not beneficial to ones own growth! That and some are just a bit more lazy than the rest of us and don't want to bother that's fine if your just looking at a one flush wonder maybe two. OK rant over. Casing layers are an excellent water reservoir that in itself should open up some closed minds. We have the ability to optimize our grows and in light of ALL THE EFFORT WE PUT INTO IT I for the life of me can't understand why some wouldn't want to GET THE MOST OUT OF IT!
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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TheMushaman
Philosophical Wanderer



Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 442
Loc: Electric Ladyland
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: hyphae]
#10617514 - 07/03/09 07:18 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said:
Quote:
Golden_Student said:
Quote:
TheMushaman said: Why not just case? You already spawned, it should be easier to just apply a 50/50 mix. Jiffy mix works well. I don't see the point of fruiting bulk as cakes. You will get a much better yield casing.
I've read that cubensis doesn't necessarily benefit from a casing layer. For this grow I was gonna go uncased.
Cubensis ALWAYS benefits from a casing layer! Whoever says it doesn't needs their head examined and shouldn't be growing shrooms in the first place! What they say is cubensis doesn't need a casing layer to fruit there's a huge difference between the two excuse my language but all I can say is ignorance is not beneficial to ones own growth! That and some are just a bit more lazy than the rest of us and don't want to bother that's fine if your just looking at a one flush wonder maybe two. OK rant over. Casing layers are an excellent water reservoir that in itself should open up some closed minds. We have the ability to optimize our grows and in light of ALL THE EFFORT WE PUT INTO IT I for the life of me can't understand why some wouldn't want to GET THE MOST OUT OF IT!
Listen to this guy man. I used his pinning strategy on my tubs while casing, and knots galore!
-------------------- The messages and posts submitted by this user are purely hypothetical and intended for educational/entertainment purposes only. The above user does not advocate any illegal activities or substances. However, the user feels that proper education and awareness is needed in all aspects of life. This user is open to intelligent discourse and any variety of topics, but only for educational/research purposes and to expand the awareness of others. Freedom is a beautiful thing, but can only be obtained through elevated awareness. Simply put, free thy mind and thy ass shall surely follow.
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AlexP



Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 2,270
Loc: Europe
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: TheMushaman]
#10617689 - 07/03/09 08:00 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
We have the ability to optimize our grows and in light of ALL THE EFFORT WE PUT INTO IT I for the life of me can't understand why some wouldn't want to GET THE MOST OUT OF IT!
-------------------- "To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa
"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them." Eliphas Levi
"The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die. The eternal mistake of mankind is to set up an attainable ideal." Aleister Crowley
"The Universe is an artistic catharsis." Artifex Infinitum
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tall dwarf
Strange
Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 15 years, 30 days
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: hyphae]
#10620135 - 07/04/09 10:32 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said:
Quote:
Golden_Student said:
Quote:
TheMushaman said: Why not just case? You already spawned, it should be easier to just apply a 50/50 mix. Jiffy mix works well. I don't see the point of fruiting bulk as cakes. You will get a much better yield casing.
I've read that cubensis doesn't necessarily benefit from a casing layer. For this grow I was gonna go uncased.
Cubensis ALWAYS benefits from a casing layer! Whoever says it doesn't needs their head examined and shouldn't be growing shrooms in the first place! What they say is cubensis doesn't need a casing layer to fruit there's a huge difference between the two excuse my language but all I can say is ignorance is not beneficial to ones own growth! That and some are just a bit more lazy than the rest of us and don't want to bother that's fine if your just looking at a one flush wonder maybe two. OK rant over. Casing layers are an excellent water reservoir that in itself should open up some closed minds. We have the ability to optimize our grows and in light of ALL THE EFFORT WE PUT INTO IT I for the life of me can't understand why some wouldn't want to GET THE MOST OUT OF IT!
I thought experiments have been done that show otherwise. RR recently wrote this:
"Search cased vs uncased. There's been several grows side by side without a casing layer of bulk substrate. With straight grains, a casing layer is required. With bulk substrates such as manure or straw, etc., a casing layer adds little, providing you maintain proper fruiting conditions. Make two separate trays of bulk substrate and leave one uncased. Maintain upper ninety percent humidity and plenty of fresh air. The two trays will perform nearly equally, but usually the uncased tray will fruit sooner. With soaking/dunking, casing layers have become obsolete except for species which require them, such as most agaricus. RR"
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AlexP



Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 2,270
Loc: Europe
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Re: when to fruit bulk cakes? [Re: tall dwarf]
#10620369 - 07/04/09 11:27 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The two trays will perform nearly equally, but usually the uncased tray will fruit sooner.
Nearly is key.
-------------------- "To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa
"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them." Eliphas Levi
"The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die. The eternal mistake of mankind is to set up an attainable ideal." Aleister Crowley
"The Universe is an artistic catharsis." Artifex Infinitum
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