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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #10614578 - 07/03/09 08:21 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RonPaulVerm said:
Both fear and love exist simultaneously (if you'd like to argue that...:thumbup:)
so why do you think we try and escape fear and overcome it therefore turning to love?
Let me put it this way.
Is it possible to overcome fear eternally? then one would exist without the other. And if that's not possible...why try and overcome fear.
Embrace it?




There is no logical reason to fear anything in life. In this life, death, separation and pain are inevitable. We must not confuse fear with adrenaline, fear is a mental block whereas adrenaline is part of the body's natural defense mechanism.

The only connection that fear has to love is that fear is love's opposite.

Besides suggesting that fear and love exist simultaneously without any real explanation to back this claim why don't you give us some examples of when fear has helped you. ... and be careful with this one because if the only reason you don't steal is because you are afraid of getting caught than you have not learned your lesson -- if you truly believed that stealing (whatever it is you're stealing) is not wrong then you should be able to get away with it without being caught or being afraid. If whatever your stealing his highly regarded and there is a lot of security then your reasons for not stealing it would be because you understand that the risks are too high. It's not that you're afraid of getting caught, it's that you know that your skills are not adequate for the challenge at hand. Fear is weakness.

I don't face my fears because I don't have any fears. I have not felt fear in many years.

It's not about facing your fears it's about letting go of them.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10615326 - 07/03/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The overcoming of the 'fear' to do 'illegal' things may not result in 'love' per se.
The legal things can be 'wrong' as well, so when one turns to love this law, this 'love' could be 'one-sided' and so would be desperate and 'wrong' in and by itself. So called 'false' love. Leading to ones definite destruction.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10615414 - 07/03/09 11:55 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zen buddy said:
The only connection that fear has to love is that fear is love's opposite.




I disagree; it makes more sense to say that hatred is love's opposite.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: deCypher]
    #10616472 - 07/03/09 03:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The only connection that fear has to love is that fear is love's opposite.




Perhaps it's just me (which I'm doubtful of), but I can't seem to love anything without fear. They are very connected for me.


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Bernackums]
    #10616492 - 07/03/09 03:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Do you love star-gazing? Are you afraid of it, too?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Bernackums]
    #10616497 - 07/03/09 03:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Then you don't really love. Love is fearless and unconditional. That is why it's so rare. Your "love" is addictive in nature and so not love. Hence the fear.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: deCypher]
    #10616607 - 07/03/09 04:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

zen buddy said:
The only connection that fear has to love is that fear is love's opposite.




I disagree; it makes more sense to say that hatred is love's opposite.




yeah I guess you're right but I also think that hatred has something to do with fear.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: zen buddy]
    #10616642 - 07/03/09 04:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think so; I hate Hitler, and I'm not afraid of him. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #10616868 - 07/03/09 04:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
The overcoming of the 'fear' to do 'illegal' things may not result in 'love' per se.





I agree, I was just using an example from something someone said earlier in the thread.

I also believe that there are many things that are illegal but there is nothing wrong with it. I know the difference between right and wrong but I do not recognize the law having any authority over me. I am a spiritual person who believes that all actions have consequences and therefore I do not believe in revenge or punishment.

I don't like using absolute statements like 'stealing is always wrong' because it is quite possible that in certain situations stealing would not only be acceptable but the right thing to do. I could probably think of a few examples but I will just use one example from personal experience. It was a very hot day and I had been locked out of my apartment for several hours during the hottest part of the day and my landlord was nowhere to be found. I left all my money and bank card inside my apartment and all of my friends were either at work or too far away. I needed water to drink and I needed it bad so I went into the 7-Eleven where I had been a regular customer for the last two months (I would shop there three or four times a week) and everyone who worked there knew my face. I asked the clerk if I could take one bottle of water and pay her back tomorrow because I had been locked out of my apartment with no bankcard. It might've been because I looked like crap after being in the hot sun for several hours and having been tripping for the last three days with no sleep, she refused to help me out. So I thought about this for a second and realized that my health is far more important than the law and the stupid clerks rules. So I walked over to the cooler and grabbed two bottles of water then left the store saying I will be back tomorrow to pay for this. She chased me out of the store and followed me for about half a block yelling at me calling me a thief. I told her to call the cops and that I doubt they will even bother to respond. Of course I showed up the next day to purchase more groceries, pay for the two bottles of water and complained of the clerk to the manager who did not agree with me either. I would understand if I was just some guy off the street who never shops there but I was someone who she knew and I had spent a lot of money at this store in the last few months. What I did was not wrong, what I did was teach that clerk a lesson (or at least I tried...lol). on that day in that heat, dehydration was a serious health concern and that woman cared more about her rules then my health, so I took what I wanted anyways. I guess I could've made that story a little shorter.

I wasn't afraid of what would happen and I did not hate the clerk. I know I did the right thing but while the whole thing was going down I have to admit there wasn't a lot of love in the air. I accept the clerk for being who she is and I feel sorry for her because for some reason she was unable to help someone who needed her help and I guess this has something to do with love.

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Bernackums]
    #10616891 - 07/03/09 04:42 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bernackums said:
Quote:

The only connection that fear has to love is that fear is love's opposite.




Perhaps it's just me (which I'm doubtful of), but I can't seem to love anything without fear. They are very connected for me.




Are you talking about jealousy or fear of losing the one you love?

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Icelander]
    #10616919 - 07/03/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then you don't really love. Love is fearless and unconditional. That is why it's so rare. Your "love" is addictive in nature and so not love. Hence the fear.




A nice slap of perspective; I do agree and recall feeling this way in the past, yet here we are. Recent developments in my first commital relationship have really clouded my judgement and thoughts on "love", and I'm finding it very hard to think of such without also surfacing fear along with it.

When I'd been thinking of examples I wasn't reaching into memory for unconditional love, most examples that were brought to mind were of the biological love that happens within our own chemicals, and I had let up on defining the difference. Thinking very basically to some unconditional loves I know I have, for the Sun, Earth, and air, I refreshed the definitions in my own memory.  Having thought on this, I certainly have been confusing objective love with the act of self-interested loving. Though I still cannot recall or imagine loving anything (affectionately) without fearing for the loss of it, however easily I cope with such fear it seems unavoidable.

What then do I call this "love" that seems to bring fear with so naturally?


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Icelander]
    #10616920 - 07/03/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then you don't really love. Love is fearless and unconditional. That is why it's so rare. Your "love" is addictive in nature and so not love. Hence the fear.




WoW, I am shocked because I actually completely agree with you on this point.:shrug:

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Bernackums]
    #10616928 - 07/03/09 04:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Are you talking about jealousy or fear of losing the one you love?




I would suggest jealousy stems from the fear of losing one's partner.


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Bernackums]
    #10616930 - 07/03/09 04:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bernackums said:
What then do I call this "love" that seems to bring fear with so naturally?



Unhealthy attachment. :sadyes:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Poid]
    #10616949 - 07/03/09 04:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Why is it unhealthy?


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Bernackums]
    #10616960 - 07/03/09 04:52 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Too much attachment to anything is unhealthy because it can potentially breed emotions such as fear, jealousy, sadness, nostalgia, etc.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Poid]
    #10616972 - 07/03/09 04:55 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Too much of anything is unhealthy, hence why it's "too much".


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.

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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #10616977 - 07/03/09 04:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting question especially since earlier on today during meditation i realised the following:

"I breath in because of fear.
I breath out with love.

Breathing in, if not i die!
Breathing out, thankful to be alive!"

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Bernackums]
    #10616980 - 07/03/09 04:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

It's very easy to become too attached to things, though, and too much can be relatively very little.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: Overcoming fear and turning to LOVE? [Re: Bernackums]
    #10616983 - 07/03/09 04:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bernackums said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Then you don't really love. Love is fearless and unconditional. That is why it's so rare. Your "love" is addictive in nature and so not love. Hence the fear.




A nice slap of perspective; I do agree and recall feeling this way in the past, yet here we are. Recent developments in my first commital relationship have really clouded my judgement and thoughts on "love", and I'm finding it very hard to think of such without also surfacing fear along with it.

When I'd been thinking of examples I wasn't reaching into memory for unconditional love, most examples that were brought to mind were of the biological love that happens within our own chemicals, and I had let up on defining the difference. Thinking very basically to some unconditional loves I know I have, for the Sun, Earth, and air, I refreshed the definitions in my own memory.  Having thought on this, I certainly have been confusing objective love with the act of self-interested loving. Though I still cannot recall or imagine loving anything (affectionately) without fearing for the loss of it, however easily I cope with such fear it seems unavoidable.

What then do I call this "love" that seems to bring fear with so naturally?




All love is unconditional, if it's not unconditional it's not love.

I had serious trust issues after being in a few relationships where the woman lied and cheated. There is no easy way to get over this but it is possible. I told my wife that if she wanted to see another man she could and all she has to do is be honest with me. She told me that she doesn't want to see anyone else and because she knows that I will be okay if she does she will not hesitate to share her desires with me. For some reason I know I can trust this woman and that's why she's my wife. After many women lying and cheating I was beginning to think that it was impossible to find a woman that I could trust.

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