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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,716
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Re: Casing Layer Questions [Re: hyphae]
#10598557 - 06/30/09 03:49 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said:
Quote:
fahtster said: yeah, I'd agree that patching could have stopped the earlier fruits as the amount of time an area is fully colonized and left without food to colonize, the earlier it's going to start to fruit... But looking at the pics, it appears that the fruits started at the gap between the substrate and the sides of the FC... you can't exactly patch theses areas... The environmental conditions at those points, combined with multiple other variables probably produced fruits earlier there.
I'm not exactly on board with the idea that those fruits are holding back the entire substrate from fruiting.. I don't think it works like that, but then again, I don't know this for a fact and I'm sure hyphae doesn't either... but to each their own. I usually always had a few early birds and didn't pick them and the rest of the flush came soon after without me picking the early ones. But opposition is always good in finding actual factual outcomes. Biologically it doesn't make much sense to put all your eggs in one or two baskets and the substrate can't count on animals of any sort to pick it's early birds; domestically or in the wild... while it's definitely true that, usually, a substrate with fewer fruits will produce large fruit bodies, the substrate of the apparent size in the photos seems too large to only produce two or three extremely huge fruits; especially if the rest of the fruiting surface is in the right state for pinning and fruiting... this will increase the chances of survival... at least as the substrate is concerned. At least that's how I see it... But like I said, I can't prove it either way.
Any updates on this, OP?
I've seen it time and time again personally why do you think they call them flushes? Do you believe it takes energy to produce those pins? How about those maturing fruits think they use up much energy? Do you think the myceliums priority would be survival? So why wouldn't it prioritize the successful sporulation of those fruits? FYI once those fruits are gone would you think they're priority would be to send forth another flush to ensure the survival of the species? Yes I am quite sure of the mechanisms involved. As far as those fruits they fruited there because there is a small space between the sides and the substrate where fresh air can penetrate easier as well as being an areas of higher moisture. It's all about spending energy wisely GL
I don't think that you don't know what you're talking about, I just don't agree... which is fine. Your idea of a flush and my idea of a flush are quite different it would appear. An entire substrate is not going to put all it's energy to a few fruits unless something else is going on that would keep the substrate from fruiting elsewhere on substrate... and even in that case, if the energy is given to those fruits, they should get freakin' huge and the 'flush' would be about the same, in theory anyway.
I don't believe the substrate of that size is going to give the entire energy to a few fruits before it starts fruiting elsewhere... But that's just my opinion... I've also witnessed this many many times. I also doubt that it has to with the casing procedure, either yours or mine since cubes fruit fine with or without a substrate.. I believe something else is going on.
My take on a flush is that the fruiting surface once used up is going be reluctant from fruiting again once it's already fruited. Hence why if you get a stellar first flush with full canopies, you're probably not going to get a great looking second flush since most of the nutrients in the general area of a fruit/fruits has been used up. The substrate is going to use nutrients closest to the fruits and not waste energy transporting them from all over the substrate. But yeah, I can't prove this so it just remains a theory and something that one can think about. 
But, OP, if you find that picking the early ones help in filling in the rest of the 'flush', by all means do it.  I've just experienced the opposite.
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hyphae
born to grow



Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Casing Layer Questions [Re: fahtster]
#10598818 - 06/30/09 04:42 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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So we put food in our stomachs and we grow right out to our toes and fingertips. The mycelial network works as one entity you can get more than one stellar flush I've had 3-4 very nice flushes regularly maybe not as nice as your but that was due to my isolates I'm sure. Size has nothing to do with anything it's not a fact that fewer are ALWAYS bigger but in general the fewer competing for nutes the larger they CAN get BUT NOT ALWAYS nothing in life is a certainty besides death and taxes. You have your right to think however you like you can believe in God or not I won't hold against you. The only thing I'll say is that was one hell of a stellar flush you had there bro! Are they all like that I mean consistently stellar? I had gotten very consistent in my yields. I was always more interested in the why than the how much I could yield. Ever since I was 10 or so I knew absolutely everything that happens happens for a reason and I've been tormented ever since trying to find out why it's a fucking curse! Anyways enjoy your endeavors!
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Carcass
Polarized


Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 8 years, 17 days
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Re: Casing Layer Questions [Re: Carcass]
#10601804 - 07/01/09 03:51 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Carcass said: **Update:

1) This is the picture of the first situation. These are early fruits in picture. I let them to be mature because of some reasons.

2) This picture is taken after early fruits have been harvested. I guess two days later after harvest. You see two perceptible pins, one on the middle of the surface, the other one on the left side, near the bottom. And you can see smaller shrooms on the right corner. I didn't pick them, because when they appeared, I saw very little pins at different places. I guessed the pins will fruit in short time period, and let these biggies grow. And the situation came to this:
<-picture X
3) So, in this case, I think the early fruits always slow down the others, especially pins. In three days, some very young mushrooms became mature, but pins just became a little older!

4) And these are the pins you can hardly see at the picture X. These pics has taken the same day with picture X.
To hyphae, I'm thinking of picking all the early shrooms, until I get a homogeneous pinset, due to these results.
What are your opinions?
Thanks for helping, disscussing with so experienced and trustworthy growers is a honor for me.
hyphae???
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hyphae
born to grow



Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Casing Layer Questions [Re: Carcass]
#10601915 - 07/01/09 05:40 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Right off the bat your casing run was uneven thus the early fruits. You may want to put slightly more casing depth around the parameters next time although this shouldn't be needed with a perfectly level substrate but it should help. That energy wasted in maturing those fruits would have been generated in the casings colonization layer overall. You must be getting real close to the myc breaking the casings surface evenly overall I would think. I can't stress this enough a very level substrate and casing layer will provide a much more even pinset. You can pick them if you want I would your going to have more shrooms than you know what to do with eventually anyway I know the first ones are precious little miracles alright besides the casing colonization has been compromised anyways so I'll leave the decision up to you. GL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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johnnyboy
Bastard Son

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 644
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Casing Layer Questions [Re: hyphae]
#10601937 - 07/01/09 05:52 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Can you case a substrate that's been in fruiting for 6 days or so already?
-------------------- I keep the bible in a pool of blood so that none of it's lies will affect me
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hyphae
born to grow



Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Casing Layer Questions [Re: johnnyboy]
#10601991 - 07/01/09 06:39 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnnyboy said: Can you case a substrate that's been in fruiting for 6 days or so already?
I wouldn't recommend it and if you did it would have to be very thin so you'll lose the benefits of a casing so my answer would be a definite no.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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