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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Registered: 06/08/09
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Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles
    #10597157 - 06/30/09 10:56 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

This post refers to my first 'batch' not the second one that i posted a question about most recently

2 weeks ago i began the FC process with the light cycle and etc. my tray was fairly colonized and following the "pinning strategy" thread once the casing was to be put in the chamber i covered it with a VERY light layer of "jiffy mix". 2 weeks later i have nothing but fluffy myc forming along the edges. I deep scratched the surface and it appeared that the myc receded but flourished on the sides. Im assuming this is because the humidity is best along the edges? At any rate the myc on the edges is not looking to myc like today.

its turning brown on the edges?







Contamination I doubt, im constantly sanitizing everything around and inside of the FC, there is no standing water, just moist fluffy perlite. I mist 4 times a day and fan aswell. The top of the casing is not very moist... ever so thats why so much misting is goin on, im not misting directly onto the casing but up into the air and letting the water lightly fall upon the casing...



Any ideas of what is going on here, anything i should do differently like perhaps cover the casing to promote more myc growth similarly to the method used before placing in the FC, and why pinning hasnt started yet?!

thanks again for all the help, i really am learning a lot during all this :smile:

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Offlinemedsn
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597188 - 06/30/09 11:04 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What does "fairly colonized" mean, exactly?

:smile:


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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: medsn]
    #10597206 - 06/30/09 11:07 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

it looked like this before i placed it in the FC and sprinkled some casing mix over the top



should i placed it back in a tray and attempt to recolonize?

Edited by surgeongeneral (06/30/09 11:08 AM)

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Offlinemedsn
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597235 - 06/30/09 11:14 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Rushing things will do you no favors, as you're finding out now.
To avoid this in the future its best to just let it colonize 100% and no less.
I'm not exactly sure what I'd do in your situation.

Remember, a 100% colonized substrate has the ability to look after its self to a degree as far as contams are concerned.

Someone may come along and say it can be saved, but I'm not sure.

Anyone..?


--------------------
My job makes me unhappy but that's alright because
when I get home I get in my spaceship and she
tells me everything is going to be OK.

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: medsn]
    #10597250 - 06/30/09 11:18 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

your jiffy mix is the casing your talking about your colonized substrate.   

deep scratching is an outdated practice and weakens your myc cause it has to heal and your opening it up to contams by scratching it up.

the browning looks like dead myc or bacteria taking hold.

you dont have sufficient humidity because it looks like you have combined a monotub and shotgun FC together and left out the holes in your FC.

you need to follow the correct shotgun FC build here @ www.mushroomvideos.com or search monotubs and build it to specs. 

you dont have enough FAE IMO. and dont expose your substrate to air until its ready to fruit.  FAE is a big pinning trigger once your sub is fully colonized.  if you give FAE earlier you can have bad pinset or no growth at all.  it all in timing.

learn about circadian rhythm for your myc should have 12hrs on/off during all stages of cultivation.


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597258 - 06/30/09 11:19 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

surgeongeneral said:
it looked like this before i placed it in the FC and sprinkled some casing mix over the top



should i placed it back in a tray and attempt to recolonize?




thats not fully colonized, there is your problem.  too early.

patience is a virtue.


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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597323 - 06/30/09 11:30 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

uhhhhhh miscom goin on here.... the substrate was 100% colonized in a bag... then crumbled and placed in the tray following a casing 101 thread found on here.... the tray was covered and i posted a thread asking if it was time to put in the FC, the responses were yes, normally when the tray is at 40% its should begin in the FC process but as you can see it was at 80%... I covered it in a thin verm layer like the pinning strategy thread said to do them placed it in the FC. My FC has hole all over the place, just like the shotgun FC, you just cant see that in the pics

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Invisibleprismism
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597345 - 06/30/09 11:37 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

you are confused about casing versus spawning to bulk and then casing..i dont feel like explaining this.......
someone who is better with words will probably chime in here..
wheres veda?


--------------------
ephemeral anomalous

Edited by prismism (06/30/09 11:38 AM)

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OfflineBrandNewbie
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597398 - 06/30/09 11:51 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

surgeongeneral said:
normally when the tray is at 40% its should begin in the FC process but as you can see it was at 80%... I covered it in a thin verm layer like the pinning strategy thread said to do them placed it in the FC.




NEEDS to be 100% colonized before spawning to bulk, THEN needs to be 100% colonized before being introduced to FC.

When experienced growers tell you that timing is critical, they are not misusing the word critical.

I'm trying to be helpful. I wish you the best. :goodluck:


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Offlinemedsn
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: prismism]
    #10597403 - 06/30/09 11:52 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Or better still, head to the archive/search the forums and pick up some tips.
There is lots of info out there just waiting for you to soak it up.

:smile:


--------------------
My job makes me unhappy but that's alright because
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OfflinePsuper
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: prismism]
    #10597437 - 06/30/09 12:01 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

prismism said:
you are confused about casing versus spawning to bulk and then casing..i dont feel like explaining this.......
someone who is better with words will probably chime in here..
wheres veda?




Yeah, this gets so old explaing....we have more than 1 glossary for people to read.  I think the solution is to not use the word "casing" when refering to a project. I won't even use the word "casing" as a verb. ~Pixie~


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: Psuper]
    #10597460 - 06/30/09 12:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

when you do your searching be sure to check the dates on the thread, outdated info will be your worst enemy if your not careful.

the search engine has a great filter for all your needs.


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OfflineBrandNewbie
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: prismism]
    #10597465 - 06/30/09 12:07 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe this will help;


--------------------
Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume? 
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.

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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597570 - 06/30/09 12:29 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

ok so bulk substrate then.... my mistake... so whats the best way to fix this then?

my tray was layered as follows top to bottom:

5. inch of jiffy mix
substrate (about 1.5 inches + thick)
1.5 inches of jiffy

should i break off the browning myc and recolonize in a tray then?

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OfflineBrandNewbie
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597606 - 06/30/09 12:40 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

1.5" of jiffy on top of your spawn is pretty thick. It would take a while to colonize, IF you managed to keep out any contams.

Usually spawn is mixed with substrate, and then allowed to colonize, as opposed to layering. Layering is more effective for outdoor plots.

If you meant for the jiffy to be a casing, then it needs to be a thinner layer. A casing provides a micro-climate for your fruits and should be non-nutritious.
Hope this helps. Hang in there.


--------------------
Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume? 
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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597645 - 06/30/09 12:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

top to bottom

.5 on top

1.5 on bottom

ok so then should i scrape off the browning myc and break up the whole thing and redo it or just put it back in a tray and cover it till its 100%?

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OfflineBrandNewbie
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10597707 - 06/30/09 01:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What does it smell like?


--------------------
Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume? 
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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: BrandNewbie]
    #10597990 - 06/30/09 02:01 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

it smells like moist fresh soil... a hint of mush smell is there though... so what are my options? wait it out? take off the brown spots? recol? thanks for all the help

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Offlinemedsn
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10598101 - 06/30/09 02:29 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It likely smells like soil as thats whats there. Once the myc has taken over 100% it'll be pure shroom odour.

If it were me, using a sterilized spoon/knife, id remove the brown shit, strip back what isnt myc and expose it to fruiting conditions.
Plenty of FAE, high 90's humidity and regular fanning.

Id treat it like a huge cake from now on and get what you can off of it.
Thats just me though, a TC or more experienced grower may be able to offer advice as to how to save it.

Best of luck :smile:


--------------------
My job makes me unhappy but that's alright because
when I get home I get in my spaceship and she
tells me everything is going to be OK.

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Invisibleprismism
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10598242 - 06/30/09 02:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

surgeongeneral said:
it smells like moist fresh soil... a hint of mush smell is there though... so what are my options? wait it out? take off the brown spots? recol? thanks for all the help




trich smells like moist soil.


--------------------
ephemeral anomalous

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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: prismism]
    #10598890 - 06/30/09 04:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

FAE? trich?

theres plenty of myc on the top layer its just not doing anything, thats why i figured covering it and letting it recol. would work best

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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10599998 - 06/30/09 08:15 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i found a flaw in my FC, there were some grooves that collected some standing water and the casing was green on the underside in some spots.... the FC has now been emptied and started from scratch with some new remedies for the standing water....the casing im attempting to save, i cut off the top and bottom layers leaving only spungy yet dry myc and am redoing the process... hopefully batch 2 fairs better, thanks everyone for the help... i have part of batch 2 just started in some trays that were layered, should i redo those too since a layered approach is not normally suggested?

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OfflinePsuper
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10600025 - 06/30/09 08:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

There is nothing wrong with layering the spawn and substrate.  Just don't have any exposed grains/ cake on top of the substrate.  I only ever layer my spawn in my trays. ~Pixie~


--------------------
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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10600166 - 06/30/09 08:46 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

good, i thought for sure i wasted a lot of time reading up on that for nothing....

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10600367 - 06/30/09 09:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

layering works but its a lil slower than mixing. 

because when you mix it thoroughly it has more inoculation points to colonize faster and thus a lot less chance of contaming. 

full colonization of myc around the substrate form a wrap so to speak keeping contams out.

if your growing cubes dont bother with a casing layer until after 1st flush and dunk (works well 4 me), or at all, its not needed with cubes unless u have problems with keeping humidity up.

IMO... casing layer = one more step to add contams to your grow.(not needed)


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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10600408 - 06/30/09 09:32 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

13shrooms said:
layering works but its a lil slower than mixing. 

because when you mix it thoroughly it has more inoculation points to colonize faster and thus a lot less chance of contaming. 

full colonization of myc around the substrate form a wrap so to speak keeping contams out.

if your growing cubes dont bother with a casing layer until after 1st flush and dunk (works well 4 me), or at all, its not needed with cubes unless u have problems with keeping humidity up.

IMO... casing layer = one more step to add contams to your grow.(not needed)




+1


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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: prismism]
    #10600441 - 06/30/09 09:37 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

thanks... ill use that for the next time!

what do you mean by 'cubes'

Edited by surgeongeneral (06/30/09 09:38 PM)

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Invisibleprismism
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10600459 - 06/30/09 09:40 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

psilocybe cubensis mushrooms.


--------------------
ephemeral anomalous

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Offlinesurgeongeneral
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10600528 - 06/30/09 09:54 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

thats what i thought.... awesome, hopefully ill be posting results soon!!

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InvisibleJewelessCaesar
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: surgeongeneral]
    #10600700 - 06/30/09 10:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

surgeongeneral said:
uhhhhhh miscom goin on here.... the substrate was 100% colonized in a bag... then crumbled and placed in the tray following a casing 101 thread found on here.... the tray was covered and i posted a thread asking if it was time to put in the FC, the responses were yes, normally when the tray is at 40% its should begin in the FC process but as you can see it was at 80%... I covered it in a thin verm layer like the pinning strategy thread said to do them placed it in the FC. My FC has hole all over the place, just like the shotgun FC, you just cant see that in the pics





Wait I am confused, did you grow spawn and layer it with some sort if bulk substrate?(hpoo/straw etc.) Or did you just crumble you mycelium for it to reheal itself and use jiffy as a casing layer?


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Im getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: JewelessCaesar]
    #10602921 - 07/01/09 11:09 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wait I am confused, did you grow spawn and layer it with some sort if bulk substrate?(hpoo/straw etc.) Or did you just crumble you mycelium for it to reheal itself and use jiffy as a casing layer?




you PC grains in your jars and inoculate with a spore syringe/myc LC/agar wedges (whatever)  when your jars are colonized thats spawn.  you then break it up as small as you can and mix it with your pasteurized bulk substrate and let that colonize to 100% and put the whole colonized sub into fruiting conditions in your trays in a martha or monotub or shotgun FC. 

hope that clears it up for you.


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Re: I'm getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10603076 - 07/01/09 11:43 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well thanks but I know what casing to a bulk substrate with spawn is but the OP didn't say he spawned it. I think he just crumbled and cased. That was my question. Whether or not he spawned and cased or simply crumbled and cased.


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OfflineNifflerz
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Re: I'm getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: JewelessCaesar]
    #10603609 - 07/01/09 01:26 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Does the top have to be completely covered in myc to be considered fully colonized? I watched a friend's grow quite closely several months back, and his top substrate layer wasn't fully white with myc -- in fact, it was only like 30-40%.

Yet he still got 4 solid flushes. It took like freaking 2 months to fruit, but it did fruit.

His method was opening up fully colonized mycobags and sandwiching that layer between 50/50 peat moss & verm (with oyster shell & lime).


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Re: I'm getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: Nifflerz]
    #10603784 - 07/01/09 02:05 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Does the top have to be completely covered in myc to be considered fully colonized?




when the top is 100% fully colonized is best.

a fully colonized sub when exposed to FAE and stable temps and a light cycle gives the best pin set because the timing in the life cycle is right to fruit once stimulated by fruiting conditions.

just like fully colonized cakes are ready to birth 1 week after they look fully colonized.  the myc is still digesting nutes from the sub if its still colonizing therefor not ready to fruit thus taking a long time to get mushies.


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Re: I'm getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: JewelessCaesar]
    #10603792 - 07/01/09 02:07 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

JewelessCaesar said:
Well thanks but I know what casing to a bulk substrate with spawn is but the OP didn't say he spawned it. I think he just crumbled and cased. That was my question. Whether or not he spawned and cased or simply crumbled and cased.





srry thought it said "do you" not "did you".  my bad:shrug:


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Re: I'm getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10603849 - 07/01/09 02:17 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

13shrooms said:
Quote:

Does the top have to be completely covered in myc to be considered fully colonized?




when the top is 100% fully colonized is best.

a fully colonized sub when exposed to FAE and stable temps and a light cycle gives the best pin set because the timing in the life cycle is right to fruit once stimulated by fruiting conditions.

just like fully colonized cakes are ready to birth 1 week after they look fully colonized.  the myc is still digesting nutes from the sub if its still colonizing therefor not ready to fruit thus taking a long time to get mushies.




I guess that explains why it took him 8 weeks after FC'ing it to fruit shrooms. He was literally days away from trashing everything and then they finally started fruiting. The one thing he did though throughout the 2 months was faithfully mist & FAE twice a day, even when things looked real bleak.


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Re: I'm getting demoralized.... casing troubles [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10605175 - 07/01/09 05:55 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

All good my friend! :peace:


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