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Cyber
Ash



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Lets Talk about spawned substrates
#10596487 - 06/30/09 07:23 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Back in 4/2005 I created a set of substrates that were 12"x12"x3" and fruited them, I took the output from the first flush and weighed it. Looking back at my notes the following was the output from those experiments.
1) All tests done with Colonized WBS of Z-Strain isolate 2) 1:2 spawning ration means 1 part wbs to 2 parts substrate. 3) All Cow Poo was composted Cow Poo
Wild Bird Seed, 100% put it in the tray, level it out and fruit it == 462g wet Coir Spawned with WBS @ 1:2 == 301g wet Vermiculite spawned with WBS @ 1:2 == 280g wet Cow Poo and Vermiculite 50/50 spawned @ 1:2 == 486g wet Cow Poo Vermaculite, Coir 33/33/33 spawned @ 1:2 == 685g wet Cow Poo, Vermiculite, coir 20/30/50 spawned @ 1:2 == 1059g wet Cow Poo, Vermiculite, coir 10/40/50 spawned @ 1:2 == 859g wet
Now this was all done before the advent of using Coffee or coffee grinds in your substrate so I have not tested them. I can not seem to get straw locally so I have not tested straw. I have never used lime, lye, gypsum, or any other product to ADJUST the ph. Never saw it as needed. I have not tested horse poo because, until recently, I did not have access to it. Over the years I have noted a variation of about 150g +/- on the 20/30/50 mix based on the strain isolate I use. So there can be a 14% to 15% variation based on the strain.
I personally do not believe that coir, by it self, has any nutrient value. So if you are spawning a BRF cake into coir that was hydrated with water then the only nutrient source available to the mycelia is the BRF. I did note that coir did a little better than vermiculite when spawned but the 20g difference is so small that it is well with in the error range for the test.
So, is anyone else willing to test there substrate? It is real simple, just make up your substrate mix and spawn it at a 1:2 ratio into a 12x12 pan. fruit it, weigh your first flush and post the info and numbers. You can go to the grocery store and get a 12x12 aluminum pan. This will give you the wet gram weight per square foot of fruiting area which is, OMHO, a good way to measure the substrate you are using.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10596524 - 06/30/09 07:37 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd like to see poo/verm/coir 40/10/50.
I haven't ever tried anything like this, but I'm getting to that stage in my hobby. So it's really cool to see this as an example of how to go about quantifying all of this.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Doc_T]
#10596679 - 06/30/09 08:38 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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A look around the boards will show that coir is about as nutritious as cow or horse manure. Vermiculite also supports fungi. Neither are inert, as was commonly thought a few years ago. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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FractalXplora
Grainiack




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10596757 - 06/30/09 09:03 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'd like to see poo/verm/coir 40/10/50.
I haven't ever tried anything like this, but I'm getting to that stage in my hobby. So it's really cool to see this as an example of how to go about quantifying all of this.
thats what i normally use Doc, well a brick of coir 7 quart and about 10 quart poo, quart gyspum and quart verm. seems to work really well.
--------------------

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prismism



Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,570
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10596766 - 06/30/09 09:07 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: A look around the boards will show that coir is about as nutritious as cow or horse manure. Vermiculite also supports fungi. Neither are inert, as was commonly thought a few years ago. RR
delicious nutritious.
-------------------- ephemeral anomalous
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Cyber
Ash



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10596960 - 06/30/09 10:05 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: A look around the boards will show that coir is about as nutritious as cow or horse manure. Vermiculite also supports fungi. Neither are inert, as was commonly thought a few years ago. RR
RR, I have seen you post it, I have seen people quote you as saying it. There are 749 posts with the words coir and nutritious in them. non of them seemed to test it.
Look at the numbers, coir did not produce anywhere near as good as some of the other mixes and only produced about as good as vermiculite. I would look at the spawn as providing the nutritious content there not the coir. To say it is as good as Cow poo is stretching it. I would also note that most of the coir grows I found were spawned with grain. When I have seen people try to used BRF to spawn it appears that they get small flushes, stalling, and poor pin sets when using just coir. This would lead me to think that the mycelia are running out of food for growth.
I will admit that if you add coffee grounds into the mix it appears to do well but that does not mean that the coir is the nutrient source.
To point to mold and say that it must be nutritious because mold grows on it, then the caulk in the bathroom must be nutrisous as well because mold grows on it. The truth is that Mold can grow on any organic substance, paper, cloth, wood, the dirt that you wash from your body, you name it. Ps. Cubensis can not. So saying that it is good because mold grows on it is not correct.
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Psuper
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10597038 - 06/30/09 10:24 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wait, you're saying your results were better fruiting straight WBS than WBS spawned to coir?
Looking around at other grows I don't come to this conclusion at all. Looking at my own coir based projects I don't come to this conclusion at all.
I am certainely not trying to end the debate here, but where's the evidence? I've seen a lot of great coir based projects. ~Pixie~
-------------------- Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk
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Cyber
Ash



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Psuper]
#10597099 - 06/30/09 10:42 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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What I am saying is that straight coir, not coir with coffee, not coir with poo, just coir and water when spawned at 1:2 (1 spawn:2 coir) does not produce as well as fruiting 100% wbs. So if 100% of the nutrition is WBS and it does better than if 1/3 of the mix is wbs and 2/3 of it is coir then coir can not be adding that much nutrition to the mix. It would also lead me to believe that the nutrition is coming from the WBS and the coir is more of a fluffing agent.
When you have done coir grows was it just coir? or did you add stuff like coffee, compost tea, etc that added nutrients to the mix? On top of that what was your output? Did you measure it? Has anyone other than me even done tests and measured the output?
I am open if some one can prove me wrong, That is one reason I posted the outputs and the standards I used. So that others can repeat my tests. It will confirm or deny what I am saying. That is the basis of science.
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ArcanePerception
The only rule isthe golden rule



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10597311 - 06/30/09 11:28 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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very interesting thread. IME coir certainly improves yields over straight wbs but I have been wondering if its the nutrients it provides or just the extra moisture and aeration? But anyway thank goodness for coir because buying a brick is soo much easier than searching fields for hpoo with firefang.
-------------------- Oh, welcome to this world of fools
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ArcanePerception
The only rule isthe golden rule



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sorta on the same topic is it the carbohydrates that cubes consume? If yes is it only simple carbs or starches as well?
-------------------- Oh, welcome to this world of fools
Of pink champagne and swimming pools
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RogerRabbit
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Looking for 'nutrients' is missing the point, because fungi are neither humans nor plants. They break down material on the cellular level, so grow on just about any substrate with cells and/or minerals. That's why they grew on the bible, bra, stuffed animal and ball of twine. Those were gag grows, but they make the point that it's not about 'nutes'.
The book certainly isn't written on fungi yet, so we're all still learning as we go along. In fact, the more we learn about mycelium, the plainer it becomes how little we actually do know. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10597375 - 06/30/09 11:46 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am currently going with BRF cakes and coir. This pic is from 3 days ago, two days after it was put together.

This is from last night.

I think coir does a GREAT job. I will be adding a 50/50+ casing layer tomorrow morning.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
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Cyber
Ash



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10597390 - 06/30/09 11:49 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Looking for 'nutrients' is missing the point, because fungi are neither humans nor plants. They break down material on the cellular level, so grow on just about any substrate with cells and/or minerals. That's why they grew on the bible, bra, stuffed animal and ball of twine. Those were gag grows, but they make the point that it's not about 'nutes'.
I think it is about both however, I now have a chemical substrate that works for mycelia growth. So it can not be 100% about cell structures but you have to use a large mix of stuff to get any kind of good growth. That is still in the works though, I will get that microscope if it kills me 
Quote:
The book certainly isn't written on fungi yet, so we're all still learning as we go along. In fact, the more we learn about mycelium, the plainer it becomes how little we actually do know. RR
On this I agree 100%, the more I learn about what they use the more it becomes evident how little we really know about them.
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BrandNewbie
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10597454 - 06/30/09 12:05 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cyber said:
On this I agree 100%, the more I learn about what they use the more it becomes evident how little we really know about them.
Stamets believes that on some level, mycelium are sentient beings. Wouldn't it be a gas to find out that fungi was the top of the heap and that mankind was just an experiment?
-------------------- Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume?
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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Cyber
Ash



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10603675 - 07/01/09 01:41 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feelingfunny said: I am currently going with BRF cakes and coir. This pic is from 3 days ago, two days after it was put together.

This is from last night.

I think coir does a GREAT job. I will be adding a 50/50+ casing layer tomorrow morning.
Tell me, is that just coir or is that coir and coffee?
After the first flush, weigh your fruit and let us know how much you got from it.
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10603723 - 07/01/09 01:53 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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They are straight coir. I have 4 total. One has MGMC straight outta the bag, one has pasturized MGMC, one has nothing, and one is verm only. I am experimenting a little. I will post weights after harvest.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
Feel Family Founder.
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Cyber
Ash



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10603828 - 07/01/09 02:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feelingfunny said: They are straight coir. I have 4 total. One has MGMC straight outta the bag, one has pasturized MGMC, one has nothing, and one is verm only. I am experimenting a little. I will post weights after harvest.
You do know that is not coir? It contains some coir but it is not a "Straight Coir" substrate.
MGMC is 50%-60% sphagnum peat moss, coir, Composted bark, perlite, a wetting agent, and fertilizer. It uses a specially coated fertilizer that is slow release at .10%
The above is from the published MSDS sheet by Miracle-Gro
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feelingfunny
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10603962 - 07/01/09 02:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sorry, let me clarify. It's a BRF cake that I spawned to coir. (I think spawn is the right word, I am still working on my terminology.)
And I realize now reading it, how you took it. They all four are coir and BRF cake. The four different things I mentioned are the casing layers. Sorry, I am always wording things the wrong way and confusing people.
And I removed all the fertilizer balls and bark from the MGMC before I put it on. One I used with no pasturization, one with.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
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Doc_T
Random Dude




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10604473 - 07/01/09 03:53 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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You'll get the terminology sooner or later. And then you'll be able to talk clearly with the other cultivators- without the right words, it's just baby talk. Sounds like you've got it down so far.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10604490 - 07/01/09 03:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feelingfunny said And I removed all the fertilizer balls and bark from the MGMC before I put it on.
Yikes, that sounds like a lot of work!
Do you have good luck with MGMC?
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10604618 - 07/01/09 04:17 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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RJ Tubs 202: Don't know yet. I just got it yesterday and applied it last night. And yes it was a long and tedious process.
Doc_T: Is that why you snapped at me last night on the other thread? Cause my wording is so horrible? You made me sad. No biggie, I'm good now, I was just wondering.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10604650 - 07/01/09 04:22 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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To say you spawned brf cakes to coir is the correct nomenclature. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10604693 - 07/01/09 04:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you RR. I am still trying to get it all down. But I appreciate all the help.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
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Doc_T
Random Dude




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10604737 - 07/01/09 04:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feelingfunny said: Doc_T: Is that why you snapped at me
Didn't mean to be snappish. But yeah, it irks me when people not only don't take the time to find their own answers, but can't even phrase the question sensibly. Read while you wait, including all of this: http://www.shroomery.org/4/Grow-Mushrooms . It's in your interest to be able to ask the questions correctly so you get the answers you want.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Jitsu
JKD Love



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10604938 - 07/01/09 05:20 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cyber said: What I am saying is that straight coir, not coir with coffee, not coir with poo, just coir and water when spawned at 1:2 (1 spawn:2 coir) does not produce as well as fruiting 100% wbs. So if 100% of the nutrition is WBS and it does better than if 1/3 of the mix is wbs and 2/3 of it is coir then coir can not be adding that much nutrition to the mix. It would also lead me to believe that the nutrition is coming from the WBS and the coir is more of a fluffing agent.
When you have done coir grows was it just coir? or did you add stuff like coffee, compost tea, etc that added nutrients to the mix? On top of that what was your output? Did you measure it? Has anyone other than me even done tests and measured the output?
I am open if some one can prove me wrong, That is one reason I posted the outputs and the standards I used. So that others can repeat my tests. It will confirm or deny what I am saying. That is the basis of science.
I use almost exclusively straight coir for cubensis. I've fruited straight WBS before and I have had no where near as much success as I have had spawning it to coir.
From my last tray that was 1.5 inches deep and about 12 inches long and 6 inches wide my yield came out to 2 dried oz on my first flush. Using only a pint and a half of spawn. WBS alone cannot achieve this.
-------------------- Do not deny the classical approach, simply as a reaction, or you will have created another pattern and trapped yourself there.
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Doc_T]
#10605690 - 07/01/09 07:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Quote:
feelingfunny said: Doc_T: Is that why you snapped at me
Didn't mean to be snappish. But yeah, it irks me when people not only don't take the time to find their own answers, but can't even phrase the question sensibly. Read while you wait, including all of this: http://www.shroomery.org/4/Grow-Mushrooms . It's in your interest to be able to ask the questions correctly so you get the answers you want.
I have been through the threads and faq's and you get so many different variations and answers, and I will say again, this is a suprise for feelfunny and I am determined NOT to fuck it up. I am doing the best I can. You are not required to answer any of my questions, especially if they irk you. I would love your help and input, but not if it bothers you to do so.
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Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
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Doc_T
Random Dude




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10605743 - 07/01/09 08:02 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feelingfunny said: You are not required to answer any of my questions,
And you aren't required to read my snippy answers. 
But I'll try to keep them more on point. Ok?
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Doc_T]
#10605873 - 07/01/09 08:22 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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And I will try to word them better.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
Feel Family Founder.
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Cyber
Ash



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Jitsu]
#10608931 - 07/02/09 10:19 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jitsu said:
I use almost exclusively straight coir for cubensis. I've fruited straight WBS before and I have had no where near as much success as I have had spawning it to coir.
This is straight coir, no coffee, no coffee grounds, etc?
Quote:
From my last tray that was 1.5 inches deep and about 12 inches long and 6 inches wide my yield came out to 2 dried oz on my first flush. Using only a pint and a half of spawn. WBS alone cannot achieve this.
I am finding it hard to believe that you got one and one quarter pounds of fresh mushrooms from a 12"x6"x1.5" tray on your first flush. You claim is more than twice the output of my findings for WBS, or WBS and COIR on half the substrate depth.
Can you post a pic of that tray?
and Just to toss one of mine up to be fair
20% poo, 30% Verm, 50% coir, 1:2 spawn in a 24"X12"X3" Substrate producing 2.2 wet lbs per square foot.
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feelingfunny
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10609247 - 07/02/09 11:32 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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What are those three solid white things?
Are they albino's or is it from the flash?
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
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Lucid_Euphoria
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10609368 - 07/02/09 11:51 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Honestly, comparing your results to others in the same fashion isn't going to be very accurate.
Too many factors will also affect yields, including relative humidity, air temperature, casing or no casing, casing ingredients, etc. There are just too many factors involved to compare your results with someone elses, simply because its the same substrate recipe & sub size/depth.
It might give a ballpark idea but IMO won't be definitive what so ever.
-------------------- PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE
"If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha
"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-
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Cyber
Ash



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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10609380 - 07/02/09 11:53 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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The strain mutates some times and sends a stem up from the top of the cap. One cap with two stems.
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RoosterCogburn
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10609396 - 07/02/09 11:57 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feelingfunny said:

Once and for all... because I've been wondering...
Does myc eat foil? Will these trays develop little holes?
I was using somthing similar, but I used a liner of 10mil plastic sheeting because I thought I read that the myc would make holes...
Am I crazy?
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Lucid_Euphoria
Sojourner


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Quote:
I was using somthing similar, but I used a liner of 10mil plastic sheeting because I thought I read that the myc would make holes..
No you aren't crazy. Yes, eventually there will be pitting and holes in the aluminum.
-------------------- PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE
"If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha
"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-
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Psuper
Psilocybin

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,878
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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Quote:
RoosterCogburn said:
Quote:
feelingfunny said:

Once and for all... because I've been wondering...
Does myc eat foil? Will these trays develop little holes?
I was using somthing similar, but I used a liner of 10mil plastic sheeting because I thought I read that the myc would make holes...
Am I crazy?
yeah
-------------------- Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 1,865
Loc: South
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Are you fucking kidding me? Tell me that's a joke. How long does it take to start happening?
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
Feel Family Founder.
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AlexP



Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 2,270
Loc: Europe
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Psuper]
#10609469 - 07/02/09 12:11 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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RR sent a mushroom sample to a lab and that showed that the aluminium doesn't show on the fruit bodies.
-------------------- "To feel today what one felt yesterday isn't to feel - it's to remember today what was felt yesterday, to be today's living corpse of what yesterday was lived and lost." Fernando Pessoa
"When one creates phantoms for oneself, one puts vampires into the world, and one must nourish these children of a voluntary nightmare with one's blood, one's life, one's intelligence, and one's reason, without ever satisfying them." Eliphas Levi
"The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die. The eternal mistake of mankind is to set up an attainable ideal." Aleister Crowley
"The Universe is an artistic catharsis." Artifex Infinitum
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Psuper
Psilocybin

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,878
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10609474 - 07/02/09 12:13 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feelingfunny said: Are you fucking kidding me? Tell me that's a joke. How long does it take to start happening?
I only use plastic trays, so I am not sure how long it takes. But yes, in the course of a single project the myc will put holes in an aluminum tray. ~Pixie~
-------------------- Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk
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Lucid_Euphoria
Sojourner


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1,045
Loc: Flip Side
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: AlexP]
#10609477 - 07/02/09 12:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RR sent a mushroom sample to a lab and that showed that the aluminium doesn't show on the fruit bodies.
Ya I don't think it actually "eats" the aluminum. I think maybe its the metabolites/byproducts of the mycelium that deteriorates the aluminum. It takes multiple uses I believe though, I've never grown in aluminum.
This thread is getting jacked though, lets get it back on topic about substrates.
-------------------- PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE
"If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha
"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 1,865
Loc: South
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
Feel Family Founder.
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kaneabel
getting my feet wet


Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 133
Loc: Central Indiana
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10609506 - 07/02/09 12:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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feelingfunny: pm sent
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DEOXYShiitakes
Grain of Time


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 52
Loc: in my head?
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Cyber]
#10609683 - 07/02/09 12:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cyber said: What I am saying is that straight coir, not coir with coffee, not coir with poo, just coir and water when spawned at 1:2 (1 spawn:2 coir) does not produce as well as fruiting 100% wbs. So if 100% of the nutrition is WBS and it does better than if 1/3 of the mix is wbs and 2/3 of it is coir then coir can not be adding that much nutrition to the mix. It would also lead me to believe that the nutrition is coming from the WBS and the coir is more of a fluffing agent.
When you have done coir grows was it just coir? or did you add stuff like coffee, compost tea, etc that added nutrients to the mix? On top of that what was your output? Did you measure it? Has anyone other than me even done tests and measured the output?
I am open if some one can prove me wrong, That is one reason I posted the outputs and the standards I used. So that others can repeat my tests. It will confirm or deny what I am saying. That is the basis of science.
That is VERY TRUE I found in all MY experiments that If you do NOT spawn and you case, you MUST have a small layer for best results!!!!
-------------------- "They got money for wars but they can't feed the poor."
We are all 1 Consciousness experiencing itself subjectively..
"Oh yeah, sometimes my mistakes turn out better than my intentions."
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kaneabel
getting my feet wet


Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 133
Loc: Central Indiana
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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feelingfunny: Have you started seeing pinning yet?
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feelingfunny
Queen Bitch




Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 1,865
Loc: South
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: kaneabel]
#10609740 - 07/02/09 01:08 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just added my casing layers the day before yesterday and yesterday. Still a few days out.
-------------------- Green isn't just a color, it's a way of life!
Don't fear the OTD!
me if you need an answer and not 'Why don't you use the search function?'
Feel Family Founder.
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eric111e
Stranger

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 82
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: feelingfunny]
#10609947 - 07/02/09 01:41 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have 30 jars fully colonized of golden teacher and Im ready to spawn them to a bulk substrate. I have straw, coffee, and coir. Should i mix all three? And can someone help me with a good ratio
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Psuper
Psilocybin

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,878
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: eric111e]
#10610123 - 07/02/09 02:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
eric111e said: I have 30 jars fully colonized of golden teacher and Im ready to spawn them to a bulk substrate. I have straw, coffee, and coir. Should i mix all three? And can someone help me with a good ratio
You could mix all three, sure. I use fresh coffee grounds at up to 20%. RR says 33% max; I don't go that high. You can use however much coir or straw you want. Get ahold of some gypsum and add that to your substrate as well(at up to %10). ~Pixie~
-------------------- Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk
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Lucid_Euphoria
Sojourner


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1,045
Loc: Flip Side
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Re: Lets Talk about spawned substrates [Re: Psuper]
#10611202 - 07/02/09 05:48 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm currently working with a substrate of: Coir, Worm Castings, Coffee Grounds, Horse Poo, Gypsum & Vermiculite
I haven't worked out the best ratios yet though.
I'm thinking: 40% Coir 25% Coffee 10% Worm Castings 10% Horse Poo 10% Vermiculite 5% Gypsum
-------------------- PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE
"If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha
"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-
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