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OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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OG Cultivator
Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: hyphae]
    #10595495 - 06/30/09 12:18 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
OK I'll give one example and it is for those who are growing out spawn. When growing out spawn you do not want light you do not want premature pinning if you are colonizing bulk grains for use with casing layers or to spawn to poo or straw or both you do not want light. Why? The answer is simple you want the mycelium to stay in it's vegetative state this is where it grows out linearly if triggered to fruit linear growth slows and stops as it transitions to a generative state.




I disagree.

Grain spawn won't pin for at least a week after full colonization regardless of light exposure, and you should spawn to bulk right at full colonization anyway while the cells are still rapidly dividing.

I also disagree on the vegetative vs fruiting mycelium, which is a holdover theory for many ex pot growers, since so many of us come to mushroom cultivation from that background. 

Mushrooms are 100% mycelium, and if you put pins or fruits on agar, they continue to grow linearly as pure mycelium.  In past years I did many side by side tests of colonizing in the dark vs colonizing in normal ambient light.  In every case, the jars that colonized in the light produced fruits sooner and with more abundance.  Shiitake growers routinely expose substrate blocks to light for at least the last two weeks of colonization in order to get the circadian rhythm established.  Paul Stamets, who wrote in TMC to colonize many species in total darkness, now disavows that advice and colonizes all his spawn on open shelves with 12/12 light.

Sometimes it's hard to get away from what works to try something new, but if you'll colonize on an open shelf at normal room temp and ambient light exposure from day one, performance is better and contamination is less. I suspect it's because the mycelium gets a normal cycle established and is healthier.

When I was making my DVD, the original name I wanted was 'Mushroom Growing Made Easy', so I did a search for the term, and found that lame ass thing.  That's why it's called Let's Grow Mushrooms! instead. :tongue:
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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OfflineRoseM
Devil's Advocate
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
Loc: Mod not God Flag
Last seen: 7 days, 11 hours
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Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10595555 - 06/30/09 12:30 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

OK, I just came up with a theory and I wonder if anybody has some input/experience.

I have never had a premature pin when I expose a colonizing substrate to light from day one...

BUT;

What if light IS a pinning trigger for myc that's had extended exposure to the dark?

Just thinking... and wondering.

It kinda' makes sense in the natural world. Myc exposed to light knows to wait until the sub is colonized fully. Myc exposed to dark knows it is time to fruit when it finally is exposed to light.

Thoughts?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (06/30/09 12:37 AM)

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OfflineScukels
Stranger


Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 145
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: Rose]
    #10595926 - 06/30/09 01:53 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Hijackkkkked.

You may be better off starting your own thread, since it doesn't really pertain to the opening post.

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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
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Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: Scukels]
    #10595957 - 06/30/09 01:59 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

OR, I might want to ask the two MODS who were (one-upping each other and) talking about this very subject in this very thread. :wink:

Sometimes conversations evolve.

Welcome to a forum.

But thanks for telling me how this forum REALLY works.

Welcome to The Shroomery.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Offlinehyphae
born to grow
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Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10596299 - 06/30/09 05:31 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

hyphae said:
OK I'll give one example and it is for those who are growing out spawn. When growing out spawn you do not want light you do not want premature pinning if you are colonizing bulk grains for use with casing layers or to spawn to poo or straw or both you do not want light. Why? The answer is simple you want the mycelium to stay in it's vegetative state this is where it grows out linearly if triggered to fruit linear growth slows and stops as it transitions to a generative state.




I disagree.

Grain spawn won't pin for at least a week after full colonization regardless of light exposure, and you should spawn to bulk right at full colonization anyway while the cells are still rapidly dividing.

I also disagree on the vegetative vs fruiting mycelium, which is a holdover theory for many ex pot growers, since so many of us come to mushroom cultivation from that background. 

Mushrooms are 100% mycelium, and if you put pins or fruits on agar, they continue to grow linearly as pure mycelium.  In past years I did many side by side tests of colonizing in the dark vs colonizing in normal ambient light.  In every case, the jars that colonized in the light produced fruits sooner and with more abundance.  Shiitake growers routinely expose substrate blocks to light for at least the last two weeks of colonization in order to get the circadian rhythm established.  Paul Stamets, who wrote in TMC to colonize many species in total darkness, now disavows that advice and colonizes all his spawn on open shelves with 12/12 light.

Sometimes it's hard to get away from what works to try something new, but if you'll colonize on an open shelf at normal room temp and ambient light exposure from day one, performance is better and contamination is less. I suspect it's because the mycelium gets a normal cycle established and is healthier.

When I was making my DVD, the original name I wanted was 'Mushroom Growing Made Easy', so I did a search for the term, and found that lame ass thing.  That's why it's called Let's Grow Mushrooms! instead. :tongue:
RR



Of course myc can revert back but it can take time off colonization. I've isolated plenty of tissue from fruits as compared to a grain of vegging rye not scientific but. There is a transition in the way myc behaves that's a fact. What I see is and have from the beginning you want to make it as easy as possible for inexperienced growers to succeed I commend you and I always keep an open ear thank you. BTW I've also seen Paul change is mind more than once! :wink: There are many things we humans still do not fully understand in nature thats why it's called the miracle of life!


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Offlinehyphae
born to grow
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Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: Rose]
    #10596319 - 06/30/09 05:45 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
OK, I just came up with a theory and I wonder if anybody has some input/experience.

I have never had a premature pin when I expose a colonizing substrate to light from day one...

BUT;

What if light IS a pinning trigger for myc that's had extended exposure to the dark?

Just thinking... and wondering.

It kinda' makes sense in the natural world. Myc exposed to light knows to wait until the sub is colonized fully. Myc exposed to dark knows it is time to fruit when it finally is exposed to light.

Thoughts?



Like I've said in the past no trigger is as effective alone as it is in combination. When combined I believe your example along with a major drop in co2 and temperature drop (even a few degrees) combine as a force to be reckoned with. It would be like the difference between walking out side from in the house on a bright summer day and waking up to someone turning on the lights (thanks mom I'm getting up for school!) or walking outside on a bright winter day. There is quite the difference and it is shocking to the system. Is any of it necessary not really mushrooms are here to survive they will eventually fruit but it can be very beneficial and has been to many. I call it fine tuning (total manipulation). Much respects RR and your efforts! :peace:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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OfflineNunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat
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Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 3,534
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: hyphae]
    #10598972 - 06/30/09 05:11 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

wow, very interesting discussion.

Either way, I see nothing "extra" about just putting your jars away while they colonize. And sometimes people DO need to keep them warm while they keep them discreet.

Still, I see nothing outdated about building an incubator or storing colonizing jars in a dark, warm place.


--------------------


"This day is a lover..."

~Rumi

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OfflineRoseM
Devil's Advocate
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
Loc: Mod not God Flag
Last seen: 7 days, 11 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #10599039 - 06/30/09 05:24 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I have no problem doing away with cube incubation.

It was, and continues to be, the step which causes the most trouble for noobs. Also, it is one of the most expensive steps.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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OfflineLucidSid
Stranger


Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 144
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: Psuper]
    #10599151 - 06/30/09 05:43 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psuper said:
That's only a few minutes of that outdated video.  I think it is helpful for new cultivators to watch, but NOT something to be taking notes off of. It's been posted here many times. ~Pixie~





Thanks man. I see alot of paralells between the two videos, but yeah it seemed a little old school from the get go, i even thought of the tape over the injection holes method for sterilazation before watching the RR video. I think i will use this links dirirections for my first grow, very informative, i would have edited my first post and put this video on it, but i guess strangers have no place in editing.

I learned alot from this discussion,

thanks all, with shroomery, LucidSid.


--------------------
Let's face it; God has a big ego problem. Why do we always have to worship him?

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OfflineLucidSid
Stranger


Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 144
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: CH HELL]
    #10603786 - 07/01/09 02:05 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Breaker breaker 193, we got a code red here move in, i repeat move in, i have a confirmative on the URL's of the suspects, breaker i repeat breaker.





haha, j/p you guys all spooked when i posted, thats amusing.

So how has all of your expeireince been with forein mold, or contamination with the green mold been? Is it really pesky? IF so i wont hesitate to take every percaution. The other day i found a 6 pack of hamburger buns in my cupard completly consumed from green mold. In the RR video they tell you to boil the contaminated jars for an 30 minuets i think before using them again. so how the hell would i deal with a fucking intire community of Green mold in my house? Im a newb so sorry for being a needy but shit itd be nice to get these right, who knows i might be hooking you up one day..


--------------------
Let's face it; God has a big ego problem. Why do we always have to worship him?

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OfflinePsuper
Psilocybin

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,878
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: LucidSid]
    #10603799 - 07/01/09 02:08 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Do you want us to tell you to clean your house?


--------------------
Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk

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OfflineLucidSid
Stranger


Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 144
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: Psuper]
    #10603821 - 07/01/09 02:12 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

haha you shroomery folks are straight to the point, i love it.

Is that fully necessary tough? i mean what if i just spray an area that im working with an alcohol solution?


--------------------
Let's face it; God has a big ego problem. Why do we always have to worship him?

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OfflineRoseM
Devil's Advocate
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
Loc: Mod not God Flag
Last seen: 7 days, 11 hours
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Re: Begginers Mushroom Bible [Re: LucidSid]
    #10603835 - 07/01/09 02:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Mold happens.

You SHOULD keep your house clean if you don't have a glove box or flow hood.

Hell, you should keep it clean in general.

BUT you are not doomed for failure if you don't clean, you just have a higher risk of contams.

Oh, and CLEAN YOUR HOUSE!

:tongue:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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