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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
alarming artilce
    #1058874 - 11/16/02 10:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

source: http://www.strike-the-root.com/columns/Rain/rain21.html

Now This Is Really Scary

by Jack Rain

This past Sunday?s New York Times carried a front page article detailing President Bush?s plan for going to war with Iraq. The plan calls for massing 200,000 to 250,000 troops for attack by air, land and sea. The air campaign would be less than the 43 days of the first Gulf War. But in the opening hours of the air campaign, Navy and Air Force jets, including B-2 bombers carrying 16 one-ton satellite-guided bombs and B-1 bombers carrying 24 of the same weapons, would attack a range of targets. Only nine percent of the weapons dropped in the Gulf War were precision-guided; this time it is expected to be in excess of 60 percent.

Another area that could witness an increase, compared to the first Gulf War, is the number of reserves that might be called up for active duty. Pentagon officials anticipate a mobilization of the National Guard and Reserves equal to or larger than the 265,000 called to active duty in the first Gulf War. Most of these troops are expected to be deployed in the United States!

This is how The Times quietly snuck in this bombshell:

?The move to war has already raised concerns of terrorist reprisals in the United States, and senior Pentagon officials say they anticipate a mobilization of the National Guard and Reserves equal to or larger than the 265,000 called to active duty in the first Gulf War.

?Most of these reserve forces would be assigned to guard sites like military installations, civilian power plants and airports, although some would be assigned to guard bases overseas and certain specialties would be required for the Iraqi offensive.?

When you look at these numbers, you have to wonder who George W. is going to war with. Iraq or the American people? He is planning on sending between to 200,000 to 250,000 to fight in Iraq and planning on deploying around 265,000 troops in the United States.

Aren?t airports enough of a federally controlled mess already? Given the track record of Bush and Ashcroft in respecting the civil rights of Americans, once they have 265,000 troops in uniforms and firearms roaming the country, who knows where they will stick them?

A sniper and his sidekick recently showed how the might of government is impotent against a clever and stealthy adversary (maybe even a not so clever adversary).

If it wasn?t for the sniper calling up the police and leaving them tips himself, he would still be out there. And the police would still be out there looking for an imaginary white van that had nothing to do with the snipers and releasing more sketches of the imaginary white van. Now 265,000 troops or not, if the terrorists want to hit again in the United States, they will. The 265,000 troops won?t stop them. As a start, what the troops will really be doing is looking through our luggage, the trunks of our cars and God knows where else, searching for the equivalent of imaginary white vans. For most of us, in the beginning anyway, they will be no more than an annoying irritant, kind of like sand in the eye. In the beginning. But who knows where it will all end? Forget the police state, we are going to get our first tasting of a military state.

Scary. This is real scary.

*****************************

if this is indeed what is going to happen, that last line will be said many time over in the near future.


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Anonymous

Re: alarming artilce [Re: chodamunky]
    #1059064 - 11/17/02 12:06 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

So I ask you, which terrorism is the real terrorism?

IF the article is correct WE are in more trouble than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Cheers,


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Registered: 04/23/00
Posts: 532
Re: alarming artilce [Re: ]
    #1059100 - 11/17/02 12:20 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Dude that freaks me out


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OfflineHuxley
member
Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 149
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 3 years, 30 days
Re: alarming artilce [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1059230 - 11/17/02 01:07 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I doubt the NYT would quietly sneak in anything that would be considered damaging to the Bush administration.

I don't support this war, but let's not overreact. This will not be any Vietnam. No one is going to fight for Saddam; it'll be as easy as Afganistan. The problem is not the war, but what to do with these crappy countries afterwards. There will never be any stability in Afganistan. Building infrastructure is a waste of time because it will just be destroyed in a couple years.

Personally, I'm an isolationist. The less engagement with this screwed up world, especially the Arab part, which hasn't left the Middle Ages yet, the better.


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Anonymous

Re: alarming artilce [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1059430 - 11/17/02 03:29 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe Huxley is right but I do not give anything the Feds do a 'handwave'.

They worry me, a lot.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: alarming artilce [Re: ]
    #1059495 - 11/17/02 04:14 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Relax.

It's the National Guard. They aren't calling any more than were called during Gulf War I. They aren't gonna go through your luggage, so long as you aren't brown.

I really don't see a big deal here....

Other than the lies.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Anonymous

Re: alarming artilce [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1059503 - 11/17/02 04:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, thanks.

I can go to sleep now.

Wait, did you hear a clown?

[pulls covers up to nose]


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: chodamunky]
    #1059975 - 11/17/02 02:20 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)



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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: alarming artilce [Re: ]
    #1060206 - 11/17/02 05:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

only that you will see military personel roaming the streets of your cities. I don't know about you, but I go downtown everday and seeing a bunch of brainwashed dudes marching around with guns is not a comforting scenario.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: alarming artilce [Re: chodamunky]
    #1060888 - 11/17/02 10:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Don't worry, we're from the government and we're here to help.

We are your friends.

Please form a single line and show your papers to the man with the uniform and the shiny black jack boots.

Don't worry, we will protect you (9/11 was an anomoly, I repeat, WE WILL PROTECT YOU).

Now, go to the next line and receive your government approved vaccinations. These will protect you from the terrorists (just in case our massive military expenditures half way around the globe and our trampling on your civil liberties at home don't).

Okay, now go back to work, pay your taxes and watch CNN, FOX or MSNBC for the latest entertaining bombardment of the evil doers... (freedom of choice is wonderful isn't it?)

Oh, don't say anything that might make us think you're a terrorist.

Aren't you happy that we're taking care of things for you?



--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Evolving]
    #1060899 - 11/17/02 10:39 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)



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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: alarming artilce [Re: ]
    #1060971 - 11/17/02 11:22 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

anybody who is in the military is brainwashed. i know it seems harsh what im saying but i know many people who went to the army for a few years. they are different man, like desentized or something. afterall, once you join the army your occupation becomes a hired killer. i dont need to see more guns in the city streets, there are already nuff of them out there in the hands of morons.


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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: alarming artilce [Re: chodamunky]
    #1061014 - 11/17/02 11:36 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Im joining marines after high school. When I come back here, I will be a trained killer. I will say hi to you when I come back. :smile:


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflineHuxley
member
Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 149
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 3 years, 30 days
Re: alarming artilce [Re: chodamunky]
    #1061177 - 11/18/02 12:45 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)


This observation doesn't hold much water. While the US Military has done some bad things, it is basically the only thing that stood in the way of a Fascist or Communist world order which would never allow a site like this to exist.

Perhaps you could see the military patroling New York City if things got really bad, but they will not be roaming the streets in Backwater Arkansas or Sticks Mississippi because there would be nothing in those places for Terrorists to hit.

As far as Civil Liberties go, it is a fact that the overwhelming majority of people prefer security over freedom. Therefore, by definition, Civil Liberties will always be in a fluid state because people flat out do not value freedom enough.

However, in America, there are more checks to impede the erosion of liberty than anywhere else. If the Bush Administration attempts to put increased surveilance on Iraquis in America, there will be an Iraqui interest group taking them to court.

The biggest flaw in your reasoning is blaming the American military for curtailing freedom that only exists because of the American military. That said, you are providing the country a service by complaining about eroding Civil Liberties; we need to hold on to them the best we can.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
Re: alarming artilce [Re: Huxley]
    #1061713 - 11/18/02 05:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Isolationist? You are living in the past my friend.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineHuxley
member
Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 149
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 3 years, 30 days
Re: alarming artilce [Re: GazzBut]
    #1063805 - 11/18/02 09:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)


Hey, you Europeans are always complaining about the US meddling in everyone's business. I agree with that sentiment. By isolationist I mean less involved, not not involved. I see the need for US troops in Korea, but not in Germany.

Europe is a wild place. You never know when another Ethnic Cleansing incident or World War conflagration is going to erupt.


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OfflineBuzzDoctor
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Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 948
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: alarming artilce [Re: Huxley]
    #1064021 - 11/18/02 09:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

In reply to:

I doubt the NYT would quietly sneak in anything that would be considered damaging to the Bush administration.




http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/14SAFI.html

You Are a Suspect
By WILLIAM SAFIRE


WASHINGTON ? If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you:

Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend ? all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database."

To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you ? passport application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the F.B.I., your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance ? and you have the supersnoop's dream: a "Total Information Awareness" about every U.S. citizen.

This is not some far-out Orwellian scenario. It is what will happen to your personal freedom in the next few weeks if John Poindexter gets the unprecedented power he seeks.

Remember Poindexter? Brilliant man, first in his class at the Naval Academy, later earned a doctorate in physics, rose to national security adviser under President Ronald Reagan. He had this brilliant idea of secretly selling missiles to Iran to pay ransom for hostages, and with the illicit proceeds to illegally support contras in Nicaragua.

A jury convicted Poindexter in 1990 on five felony counts of misleading Congress and making false statements, but an appeals court overturned the verdict because Congress had given him immunity for his testimony. He famously asserted, "The buck stops here," arguing that the White House staff, and not the president, was responsible for fateful decisions that might prove embarrassing.

This ring-knocking master of deceit is back again with a plan even more scandalous than Iran-contra. He heads the "Information Awareness Office" in the otherwise excellent Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which spawned the Internet and stealth aircraft technology. Poindexter is now realizing his 20-year dream: getting the "data-mining" power to snoop on every public and private act of every American.

Even the hastily passed U.S.A. Patriot Act, which widened the scope of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and weakened 15 privacy laws, raised requirements for the government to report secret eavesdropping to Congress and the courts. But Poindexter's assault on individual privacy rides roughshod over such oversight.

He is determined to break down the wall between commercial snooping and secret government intrusion. The disgraced admiral dismisses such necessary differentiation as bureaucratic "stovepiping." And he has been given a $200 million budget to create computer dossiers on 300 million Americans.

When George W. Bush was running for president, he stood foursquare in defense of each person's medical, financial and communications privacy. But Poindexter, whose contempt for the restraints of oversight drew the Reagan administration into its most serious blunder, is still operating on the presumption that on such a sweeping theft of privacy rights, the buck ends with him and not with the president.

This time, however, he has been seizing power in the open. In the past week John Markoff of The Times, followed by Robert O'Harrow of The Washington Post, have revealed the extent of Poindexter's operation, but editorialists have not grasped its undermining of the Freedom of Information Act.

Political awareness can overcome "Total Information Awareness," the combined force of commercial and government snooping. In a similar overreach, Attorney General Ashcroft tried his Terrorism Information and Prevention System (TIPS), but public outrage at the use of gossips and postal workers as snoops caused the House to shoot it down. The Senate should now do the same to this other exploitation of fear.

The Latin motto over Poindexter"s new Pentagon office reads "Scientia Est Potentia" ? "knowledge is power." Exactly: the government's infinite knowledge about you is its power over you. "We're just as concerned as the next person with protecting privacy," this brilliant mind blandly assured The Post. A jury found he spoke falsely before.



--------------------
Is the glass half-full or half-empty? I say it is both.


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OfflineFred Garvin
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Re: alarming artilce [Re: chodamunky]
    #1067657 - 11/19/02 10:37 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

As a member of the Reserves, I can tell you for a fact that anybody who fears that the Guard and Reserve are going to take over this country is just plain paranoid. I, and every single reservist I know, joined the service to defend this country, and take the oath to do so very seriously. No one in the military would ever carry out any order of that nature. Well there probably would be a few, but the rank and file would never go along with it.
You don't need to fear the US military, you need to fear those that would come here and kill you just as soon as look at you. The Reserve and Guard would mainly be used to backfill jobs at stateside military bases left open by the active duty personnel who would be deployed overseas. The Army Guard would probably be used to safeguard nuclear plants, etc from possible terrorist attacks. For this you should be thankful.
And just for the record, the members of your military are not brainwashed thugs with itchy trigger fingers. There's a few wing nuts in here, but there are many more in civilian life. Anybody who thinks that the American military man is totally brainwashed robot, has obviously never been in the service. Some of the brightest people I've ever met have been in the service.



--------------------


The above statements are just the incoherent babblings of your friendly neighborhood Cracker!

Shur drinkin kils brane sells--but only the week ones!!


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